Handball Chain errors

[Achilles Heel]

I understand what you are saying ..I really do
But there is a major flaw ..the cattle he is trying to get to do this are not up to it ...we have some dumb players in our side and the skills of some of them are not up to it ...this is the on going flaw if we want to play this style we need the recruiters and coaches to identify better smarter players to recruit,poach etc
Because at the moment it seems like an exercise in polishing a turd ..it's still a turd
When it works it will be exquisite as in the hawks and now dogs handball chains
But the big difference between them and us there hands are very quick and the receivers are on the move in waves
We hand ball to the guy standing still

I don't believe our players are dumb, the coach well that's another matter, Hardwick was spooked against carltoon in 2013 so to try and counter ratten he decided that attack was not the way, lets copy the hawks, in doing this he has de incentivesed the players from taking the game on, when we do that we look a million dollars but in the back of their minds dimma said slow it down share it around, the more rubbish disposal you get the more chance of a turnover.

he said we turned it over what was it 11 times I dont believe that for one moment, I will watch the replay when my new tv gets delivered today.

he has turned skilffull players into a bunch os second guessing hacks with his stupid handbrake game plan, we all hung Wallace out to dry for doing exactly the same shit that hardwick is doing, slow backwards round in circles ball movement, and yet hardwick has a 10 x superior list to Wallace.

think about wallaces game plan and tell me what is different to what hardwick is trying to instill.

Clarkson is an innovator changes the style hardwick copies others he has not got an original thought in his mind, we are two years behind in the style of game needed in 2016 , hardwick has not adjusted in fact he has gone backwards.

is it coincidence that the negative game plans of lyon and hardwick and buckley are getting smashed?

lyon wants to create stoppages, so does hardwick you will not win a flag kicking 10 goals anymore.

 

[Achilles Heel]

My next door neighbor thinks i have renamed my tv "kick the f**king thing" due to the amount of times i leapt from the chair to scream it on sat arvo.

I would love to see someone dubb some benny hill music over it as that was what it was like.

My old coach would have screamed from the sideline that the next campaigner to handball gets 50 pushups

at least your tv still works

 

[CoggaRules]

at least your tv still works

Which one of the 11 Handball chain errors did this happen?

 

[Achilles Heel]

Which one of the 11 Handball chain errors did this happen?

the 15th

 

[exceptional design]

I don't believe our players are dumb, the coach well that's another matter, Hardwick was spooked against carltoon in 2013 so to try and counter ratten he decided that attack was not the way, lets copy the hawks, in doing this he has de incentivesed the players from taking the game on, when we do that we look a million dollars but in the back of their minds dimma said slow it down share it around, the more rubbish disposal you get the more chance of a turnover.

he said we turned it over what was it 11 times I dont believe that for one moment, I will watch the replay when my new tv gets delivered today.

he has turned skilffull players into a bunch os second guessing hacks with his stupid handbrake game plan, we all hung Wallace out to dry for doing exactly the same shit that hardwick is doing, slow backwards round in circles ball movement, and yet hardwick has a 10 x superior list to Wallace.

think about wallaces game plan and tell me what is different to what hardwick is trying to instill.

Clarkson is an innovator changes the style hardwick copies others he has not got an original thought in his mind, we are two years behind in the style of game needed in 2016 , hardwick has not adjusted in fact he has gone backwards.

is it coincidence that the negative game plans of lyon and hardwick and buckley are getting smashed?

lyon wants to create stoppages, so does hardwick you will not win a flag kicking 10 goals anymore.

Hey I have an idea.
Maybe we should stop being too smart for our own good with try to do to counter other coaches, who have tried to counter other coaches, who have tried to counter other coaches.

We could go back to fast instinctive footy, like kick, mark, handball to a player running past, man your opponent up, just like all the players used to do before they got coached at AFL.

We would completely bamboozle all the other coaches. They would be like what wtf is this game style!

 

[sante]

LOL.

You realise, our turn overs is what is costing us games right ? The crows had 80% of there scores directly from our turn overs. I know you do not rate stats, some of those stats like over all possession can be miss leading BUT some of them tell a story. For example, our ball movement actually split the crows open a fair few times on Saturday ( it was just that we had so many turn overs it did not appear that way). We managed to mark the ball in our F50 15 bloody times! 99% of sides who have a F50 mark stat that high win the game and win it well, the crows only had 4 marks in side 50 for example.

Our issue at the moment is the majority of our players are over using the pill and getting exposed on the turn over. If our coach was a ******* like you love to suggest, our game plan would be like the pies, where we get dominated in nearly every stat as we can not get our hands on the ball, that is not the case. We can and do get our hands on the pill, what is killing us is what we are doing with it.

If you think its the coaches instructions to the players to not hit a target or hand ball the ball to a bloke under pressure or Dimma is saying " Alright lads, I want you to miss the last hand ball in a attacking chain to allow our defenders to be exposed"...then you need to go outside, take in the sun as its all getting a tad to much for you cogga.

4 marks inside 50? That would be because they kicked like 8 from outside 50, not because we did anything to prevent it

 

[NZ_Tiger]

LOL.

You realise, our turn overs is what is costing us games right ? The crows had 80% of there scores directly from our turn overs. I know you do not rate stats, some of those stats like over all possession can be miss leading BUT some of them tell a story. For example, our ball movement actually split the crows open a fair few times on Saturday ( it was just that we had so many turn overs it did not appear that way). We managed to mark the ball in our F50 15 bloody times! 99% of sides who have a F50 mark stat that high win the game and win it well, the crows only had 4 marks in side 50 for example.

Our issue at the moment is the majority of our players are over using the pill and getting exposed on the turn over. If our coach was a ******* like you love to suggest, our game plan would be like the pies, where we get dominated in nearly every stat as we can not get our hands on the ball, that is not the case. We can and do get our hands on the pill, what is killing us is what we are doing with it.

If you think its the coaches instructions to the players to not hit a target or hand ball the ball to a bloke under pressure or Dimma is saying " Alright lads, I want you to miss the last hand ball in a attacking chain to allow our defenders to be exposed"...then you need to go outside, take in the sun as its all getting a tad to much for you cogga.

Our gameplan requires execution of elite skills for only medium payoffs. It sets us up to fail spectacularly like in all 3 games this season. That and nothing to kick to and we really had no plan with the ball.

As far as handball errors go, we clearly don't understand handball. Look at clubs who execute it well like north and geelong and they run dangerous lines at the defense. Some in media were calling it rugby style handballing but it couldn't be further from the truth, as the way we try to execute it, it's more like some crappy triangle drill you do in warm up. To handball effectively players need to move and run at space and the OUTSIDE shoulder not the ****ing inside shoulder. The richmond way just allowed one player to apply pressure all along the chain while they used the numerical advantage to put a ring around us giving us no way out.

 

[Tiger71]

You don't need to mark it inside 50 when you get out the back as often as they did.

.

Yet we did mark it. We had 15, that is right 15 marks inside the crows F50. Like I have said, lack of execution and our turn overs allowed them to turn it over, as instead of shooting for goal, they past for whatever reason and the crows ran off.

Skill errors happen in football, ours were magnified because the pathetic gameplan is not designed to take proper advantage of winning the ball. Hardwick has coached an alarmingly large chunk of best 22 players into becoming stat padders who upon taking a mark will instinctively look sideways before they even glance at what is forward of them.
.

Our turnovers were magnified ? Mate, we turned over the ball by foot. They got there entire first quarter score from our direct turn overs. Stat padding happen when players are scared/low confiedence to execute and they go chip chip chip...if you think Hardwick and the coaches have directed them to play that way then wow lol

The coach clearly gave an instruction to let the Crows build a wall of loose players across the wing and half back, the players played that ridiculous overuse by handball because there was no one to kick to.

Again, the coach has come out and said they over used the handball, so it was not a direction from Hardwick. We lost structure up the ground because we pressed way to much, simply players like Jack that wanted to fix it and support got sucked into the contest and added to the problem. I know this Hardwick hate is all the rage but lets keep it based in fact.

 

[Starburns_]

Yet we did mark it. We had 15, that is right 15 marks inside the crows F50. Like I have said, lack of execution and our turn overs allowed them to turn it over, as instead of shooting for goal, they past for whatever reason and the crows ran off.

It's irrelevant, a set shot isn't a guarantee. Even if you consider that the balls that were passed off were a guaranteed 6 points, in reality it doesn't go close to drastically reigning in the margin.

Our turnovers were magnified ? Mate, we turned over the ball by foot. They got there entire first quarter score from our direct turn overs. Stat padding happen when players are scared/low confiedence to execute and they go chip chip chip...if you think Hardwick and the coaches have directed them to play that way then wow lol

The entire gameplan of recent years has been based on slow, conservative ball movement, chipping the ball and going sideways is a direct product of that.

Again, the coach has come out and said they over used the handball, so it was not a direction from Hardwick. We lost structure up the ground because we pressed way to much, simply players like Jack that wanted to fix it and support got sucked into the contest and added to the problem. I know this Hardwick hate is all the rage but lets keep it based in fact.

The coach is responsible for the structure, if the runner isn't being sent out there early in the game to tell the forwards to push back and prevent the loose players, then WTF is the point of having one?

The message wasn't sent because Hardwick obviously wanted it that way, f*** knows why, but it's been clear for quite some time that he is a tactically limited coach.

 

[Tiger71]

It's irrelevant, a set shot isn't a guarantee. Even if you consider that the balls that were passed off were a guaranteed 6 points, in reality it doesn't go close to drastically reigning in the margin.



The entire gameplan of recent years has been based on slow, conservative ball movement, chipping the ball and going sideways is a direct product of that.



The coach is responsible for the structure, if the runner isn't being sent out there early in the game to tell the forwards to push back and prevent the loose players, then WTF is the point of having one?

The message wasn't sent because Hardwick obviously wanted it that way, f*** knows why, but it's been clear for quite some time that he is a tactically limited coach.

I disagree mate. You suggested before our ball movement is stiffed yet we got the ball inside 50 53 times compared to the crows 57 yet we gifted the crows 12 goals from direct turnover. We moved the ball well enough to get it to our forwards to mark 15 times. It is not Hardwicks game plan to pass it off within 40 meters of the arc, yet inexplicably they did on the weekend.

Our game plan last year was short kicks but kicks moving forward not back or behind. It was the reason we won so many games as we kept the ball moving forward in a controlled manner. If you recall early last year, our players are behaving the same way now as then. Fast football is all the rage, we played fast last year till the norf game and got spanked on the turn over. Fast forward till now and the same thing is happening by the same players, its one reason we have 5 new players ( from our settled 22) playing now, to correct it.

I disagree that tactically Hardwick is limited, you do not win as many games as he had in the last 3 years for being a spud, so we will agree to disagree on that one.

Do I think we are perfect ? No way. I disagree with our coach trying players in positions, particularly in defense when our defenders were not an issue. You see I do not blame the game plan but i hold Hardwick fully responsible for having our team ill prepared for the AFL season. It's three seasons now when our team does not read the speed/tempo of the game early, its like they are out of touch. Not till round 6 or so do they click, its not good enough as you think they should have done things differently this pre season.

 

[Deanos]

Not being able to handball effectively and to space instead into trouble is damning.

Haha this reminded me of Cotch's handball to Rance on the weekend.

 

[caroma]

All this hand balling had me asking one question. Why didn't Lids play? Coach says he's running perfectly without discomfort. Only problem is kicking. Well, on Saturday no one kicked the ****ing ball. Would've been perfect game to bring him back in.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Not being able to handball effectively and to space instead into trouble is damning.

And if you have a look at a number of our turnovers, a very high percentage would be due to handballs to stationary targets. Handballing to space to create run is fine. Helps with the run and spread. We're not doing that though. In many cases, we're handballing to stationary targets to simply get out of trouble but we're putting that player into even more trouble. Not good signs.

Interestingly, when we changed game styles last year and stopped with the "play on at all costs" game plan, we stopped coughing the ball up and maintained control.

Will be interesting to see what tweaks / changes Dimma makes in the coming weeks.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Don't think its necessarily the end of the world yet if some tinkering is done.
Clearly we are getting our hands on the footy and you aren't going to get a better slap across the head than last Saturday to outline that a few things need to change, so I'll see what happens.
Out of that whole experience last week the first 15 minutes done my head in more than anything.
They couldn't get the ball off us but we just kept ****ing around with it.
Really should have had an early 3-4 goal lead.

 

[Maybenextyear]

Lucky world of sport is not around anymore. We wouldn't have a player to send for the handball comp. Not only would we not hit a 10 but we would probably handball into the camera mans head.

 

[CoggaRules]

Don't think its necessarily the end of the world yet if some tinkering is done.
Clearly we are getting our hands on the footy and you aren't going to get a better slap across the head than last Saturday to outline that a few things need to change, so I'll see what happens.
Out of that whole experience last week the first 15 minutes done my head in more than anything.
They couldn't get the ball off us but we just kept ******* around with it.
Really should have had an early 3-4 goal lead.

Clearly we have been getting our hands on the footy and entering i50 a trillion times over the last 3 or so years and it's pretty clear that we can't do it without errors. Now that's 4 years on. Tipping a smart man would think ok this ain't working so we need to change. But wait I got a contract extension and I need to justify it so I can't change it and hope it goes away.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Clearly we have been getting our hands on the footy and entering i50 a trillion times over the last 3 or so years and it's pretty clear that we can't do it without errors. Now that's 4 years on. Tipping a smart man would think ok this ain't working so we need to change. But wait I got a contract extension and I need to justify it so I can't change it and hope it goes away.

I reckon we have changed it before after bad starts but keep going back to try because they think that you can't win a flag or get near it without that style. Problem is we are just too predictable with it now.
I see the theory because I bet anything you can't win a flag playing the way the Bulldogs do either, but Freo prove you won't by being too defensive either.
You need to have more than one way to skin a cat but you've got to know when to play attacking or defensive and we are just too one way at the moment and it always takes a shocking start to change it.
I swear us beating Hawthorn has been more of a negative than anything.
Just because it beats hawthorn doesn't make it the be all and end all.
Horses for courses.

 

[CoggaRules]

I reckon we have changed it before after bad starts but keep going back to try because they think that you can't win a flag or get near it without that style. Problem is we are just too predictable with it now.
I see the theory because I bet anything you can't win a flag playing the way the Bulldogs do either, but Freo prove you won't by being too defensive either.
You need to have more than one way to skin a cat but you've got to know when to play attacking or defensive and we are just too one way at the moment and it always takes a shocking start to change it.
I swear us beating Hawthorn has been more of a negative than anything.
Just because it beats hawthorn doesn't make it the be all and end all.
Horses for courses.

Lets get real here RD Freo to many talk about Freo not proving anything and the Aints under Lyon as well by playing too defensive but barring an errant kick or 2 the game plan to win a flag, was to be defensive, as we speak. Come on man, if the ball doesnt bounce at right angles for a behind in the aints GF and if Freo didnt blow 3 at least, cast iron shots for goal in the last, everyone would be lauding the plan. I am a big advocate of defences win GFs. Dont look at the stats now because its purely the Dawks winning GFs by default, i.e they were johhny on the spot with a developed list etc when other teams that were wanting to be contenders took a hit by the intorduction of the newbie teams and had to take discounts on players they took in. But cutting to the chase, Freo is the only team that took the dawks and gave them a hell of a fright and shoulda won that GF and the dawks know it.

 

[Achilles Heel]

It's irrelevant, a set shot isn't a guarantee. Even if you consider that the balls that were passed off were a guaranteed 6 points, in reality it doesn't go close to drastically reigning in the margin.



The entire gameplan of recent years has been based on slow, conservative ball movement, chipping the ball and going sideways is a direct product of that.



The coach is responsible for the structure, if the runner isn't being sent out there early in the game to tell the forwards to push back and prevent the loose players, then WTF is the point of having one?

The message wasn't sent because Hardwick obviously wanted it that way, f*** knows why, but it's been clear for quite some time that he is a tactically limited coach.

a lot of what youre saying is responsibility of the coach, the structure, the runner , the slow ball movement, that is a game plan issue.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Don't think its necessarily the end of the world yet if some tinkering is done.
Clearly we are getting our hands on the footy and you aren't going to get a better slap across the head than last Saturday to outline that a few things need to change, so I'll see what happens.
Out of that whole experience last week the first 15 minutes done my head in more than anything.
They couldn't get the ball off us but we just kept ******* around with it.
Really should have had an early 3-4 goal lead.

If its tinkering you need get Claudio.....

 

[Goldfrog]

The problem we have and have had for a while is that our game style is very one dimensional so other sides have quickly worked us out. To make matters worse we are blooding some younger players so we are also seeing problems in execution of our game style. So basically with execution issues and the fact that the opposition already know our every move it makes it easy for opposition teams to make our lives very difficult. An analogy would be say an NFL team having the opposition's play book. That's where I believe that Hardwick is a now a little out of his depth, he has developed the list (in difficult times so hats off to him for this) and along with it a game style that suited the cattle at the time but now we need to move on from that but I think he and the coaching staff are a little bereft of ideas on how to do that. Like most of our team members he seems to be a follower rather than a visionary when it comes to game styles so is probably studying the Bulldogs methods via endless videos right now. He doesn't come across to me as a coach who really thinks outside the square.

What a magnificent post. One of the best I have read and spot on. What a shame Benny and Penny, and the football division, probably won't read this.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Lets get real here RD Freo to many talk about Freo not proving anything and the Aints under Lyon as well by playing too defensive but barring an errant kick or 2 the game plan to win a flag, was to be defensive, as we speak. Come on man, if the ball doesnt bounce at right angles for a behind in the aints GF and if Freo didnt blow 3 at least, cast iron shots for goal in the last, everyone would be lauding the plan. I am a big advocate of defences win GFs. Dont look at the stats now because its purely the Dawks winning GFs by default, i.e they were johhny on the spot with a developed list etc when other teams that were wanting to be contenders took a hit by the intorduction of the newbie teams and had to take discounts on players they took in. But cutting to the chase, Freo is the only team that took the dawks and gave them a hell of a fright and shoulda won that GF and the dawks know it.

What I'm saying is we have this ridiculous record against the Hawks and I reckon it's the worst thing for us.
We try to play that style all the time now and it's being laughed off the park.

 

[CoggaRules]

What I'm saying is we have this ridiculous record against the Hawks and I reckon it's the worst thing for us.
We try to play that style all the time now and it's being laughed off the park.

You know when the penny will drop for those tiger heads gripping to that semblance of hope when we meet the darks in a real deal means something to them match and then you will see the same keystone moments you saw last week. Face facts we cannot produce under pressure and when we lose the plot teams just hit the scoreboard at will with us going to water and not being able to stem the tide. It's the same pattern and hasn't changed. And it's exacerbated when we have a coach who in his own words is going to rely on a couple newbies learning the game at warp speed so he can flood the HB line and hope to rebound on the break. Like that's it. There ain't a plan b plan c or something that might change a result when plan a isn't working.

 

[exceptional design]

And it's exacerbated when we have a coach who in his own words is going to rely on a couple newbies

Does that mean he is going to develop them better than the 75 players he had so far before the last 5.

 

[Ralll]

we are f****ed and this is why, because our coach says Champion data had us at 11 and the AFL average is at 4 and i know for a fact that he thinks all that needs to be done is to bring the figure back to 4 and we will go deep into Septmember...lmaooooo....f**k me we have a super lemon coaching us dudes...like the others were duds but this "gamer" is pure gold...i suspected he wsa purely someone who looked at %ers and stats but this is gone beyond a joke now...like pull the pin Benny and lets start afresh

Theres method here, we drop the handball errors down and save all the goals they cost us while kicking a few more ourselves we win the game, whats the problem?

I agree with the mentality that playing retreads and a contested stoppage gamestyle to suit them is not going to get us a premiership, rather keep us average for the foreseeable future. Get the higher picks straight in with a quicker gameplan that only they can pull off (eventually) and elevate our ceiling.