Harbrow

[murphy2bedabest]

They should because the club has shown faith in them. Its not as if they are underpaid. I'd question someone's lifestyle & spending habits if they couldn't support a family on 300k a year. They should have enough talent to earn a living after footy, e.g. Cooney is great on TFS!
Anyway I'm certain Cooney will stay. Probably Harbrow too. I'd be sad to see Hahn go, but we can cover him. Is Williams contracted to next year?

Whats Timmy Walsh doing now? number 4 draft pick who spent his time at the Doggies injured, and how much money did he make out of Footy? not everyone has the profile to get work in the media like Cooney Johno or Aker?

on another note that was talked about here last week was about David Schwarz's gambling problem, where would he be now if he didn't have the profile that has allowed him to be in the media, on SEN and Channel 7

 

[Werewolf]

Whats Timmy Walsh doing now? number 4 draft pick who spent his time at the Doggies injured, and how much money did he make out of Footy? not everyone has the profile to get work in the media like Cooney Johno or Aker?

I don't know you tell me, but I felt really bad when he got injured. He seemed like a nice bloke when I spoke to him. What I mean is professional sport relies on your body holding up, so everyone needs a backup talent; carpentry, landscaping, whatever not necessarily media.

on another note that was talked about here last week was about David Schwarz's gambling problem

Proves my point, look after your money and avoid gambling.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

IIRC, Jarrod Harbrow's family live in Victoria. He may be "home" already...
If that's wrong, please correct.

I'd be surprised if we got out of the GC thing without losing anyone. Seems to me, though, that Doggies players are a fairly loyal bunch these days.

Let's hope so, anyway!

 

[chef]

IIRC, Jarrod Harbrow's family live in Victoria. He may be "home" already...
If that's wrong, please correct.

I'd be surprised if we got out of the GC thing without losing anyone. Seems to me, though, that Doggies players are a fairly loyal bunch these days.

Let's hope so, anyway!

Pretty sure his mum, dad and brother live up in Cairns. He only moved to Mooroopna for a year(he has family there) to play TAC footy in order to have a better chance at getting drafted

 

[Curly5]

I guess we expect players to be loyal because we are loyal. How about if we supported the club that offered supporters the best deal: discounts, free gear, etc etc.? Wouldn't happen of course, but it shows how different the players' attitudes are from ours.

 

[Turtleman3]

Another way to look at it is that many of the picks they have been given are Victorians and in a few years may be able to be picked up with 'come home' factor.

 

[dogwatch]

The compensation rules (as I understand them) appear to be complex, and with complexity there's always loopholes and inequities. If Harbrow were to leave for the Gold Chest as an uncontracted player we would have some "independent" experts determine the draft pick we get. (See earlier post that explained this) This would depend on a range of things but especially his form, awards, etc.

Personally I think Harbrow's in for an even better year in 2010 than 2009, especially after seeing him against the Lions last Sunday. For that reason alone we should dismiss any suggestion that he play in the Willi thirds or whatever, when we discover he's leaving. That's just cutting off our nose to spite our face. If he gets lots of Brownlow votes, comes third in the WB B&F, etc then his assessed value (hence the compensation we get) should be all the greater.

So what would we get? I don't trust these complex formulae and I reckon the very best we could hope for would be an end-of-first-round compensation pick, but more likely a middle of second round pick. Let's say it's the latter and we choose to use it in three years time (we'd be crazy to use it in a year when we finish premiers and GC or WS have heaps of picks in the range 1-10). Say in that year (2012) we finish 6th. That gives us normal draft picks 13 and 31. With a second round draft pick our compensation would come in as pick 32. Not much value for a top 5 or top 10 player at the club with about 8 good years left in him!

But it's worse than that, because there will be 15 other clubs also deciding when to use their compensatory pick and we would probably be behind a number of them in the queue, so it could be somewhere around pick 36-40 that we end up getting for the likes of Harbrow.

And if Cooney went it would be worse still because we'd be losing an out and out match/premiership winner and probably get a pick around #20 in about 3-4 years time.

Forget the likes of Hahn. GC will reckon he only has 2-3 years top footy left in him and won't be chasing that sort of player. Let's look after Tractor and make him an honoured one-club player rather than shabbily suggest he be offered up as some sort of decoy.

I think the strategy of the 16 clubs over the next two years ( because after GC comes WS!) will be to identify about 4 categories of player -

1: the classy players with at least 5 years top footy in front of them (Cooney, Higgins, Ward, Harbrow, Griffen and just maybe Everitt). You build your team around this nucleus.
2: the highly promising but unproven players who are yet to reach their peak and have about 8-10 years in front of them (we have quite a few in this category like Roughead, Reid, Wood, Grant, Jones, Howard, Hill, Cordy, Boumann and maybe by the end of the year Tutt, Panos, etc). Our medium term future is tied up in these guys.
3. the classy players who probably only have 2-4 years peak level footy left in them (Morris, Murphy, Boyd, Cross, Lake, Gilbee, Hahn, Gia, Shaggy - basically all our good players now aged 26-30)
4. Anybody else.

The strategy will be

(a) do almost anything to keep category 1 players.

(b) try to get long term contracts for the category 2 players so that they are locked away during the expansion shenanigans. With the likes of Ricky O circling, this could be a costly exercise and we may end up losing at least one of them.

(c) I'd hate to lose any of the category 3 players (eg Boydy) but think it unlikely that GC and WS will be chasing too many of them. They will only want 3 or 4 in total to provide some role modelling, leadership and maturity in their playing list. So clubs won't have to work as hard to keep these blokes who will now be starting to see themselves as "one club players" and probably won't get much more money at GC or WS than in Melbourne anyway. So if any of them do decide to go we may just have to take our medicine (and our compensatory pick) and send them on their way, thankful that it wasn't a category 1 or 2 player.

(d) If we lose category 4 players well ... meh, that's a shame but we'll pick up more in the next draft. Will GC/WS chase them anyway? Very unlikely.

There's going to be some pain around most of the existing 16 clubs over the next 2 years, you can be sure of that. The compensation won't come close to making up for the lost players. Maybe it would be much smarter to try to trade away players that are planning to leave in exchange for guaranteed good picks (ie try to get our hands on one of GC's 1,3,5,7, etc). However GC is not stupid and in all probability will exploit the Ts & Cs of the new arrangements for all they are worth. Why give away a top 10 pick unless you're getting something really, really special that you can't get any other way?

 

[GrandBlue]

I'd rather lose Harbrow than Griff or Coon - if we can get through this GC nightmare and only lose Harbrow then I'd be happy.
I'm expecting us to lose more than just that though.
The position the club is in with Clayton is very uncomfortable. The guy was made a life member when he left and hopefully he pulls his punches a bit when he runs his eye over our list.
We don't deserve to cop this - the bigger clubs that rorted the system for years and bought premierships and success should be copping all the hurt.

You do realize, the Gold Coast can only 'poach' one player from us. If they plan on targetting more than one of our players, they're gonna have to pay with their draft picks.

 

[The Coon Dog]

You do realize, the Gold Coast can only 'poach' one player from us. If they plan on targetting more than one of our players, they're gonna have to pay with their draft picks.

That's just it though, they will have the draft picks needed to use.

 

[The Coon Dog]

Gold Coast draft options open up



Mark Stevens - H/S - 19 February

THERE is nothing to stop Gold Coast convincing a player to "walk" through to the national draft in a nightmare scenario for all clubs. Although the rules stipulate Gold Coast can select only one uncontracted player from each of the 16 clubs, there is the opportunity to land a superstar with a high draft pick.


Link

 

[100action]

The compensation rules (as I understand them) appear to be complex, and with complexity there's always loopholes and inequities. If Harbrow were to leave for the Gold Chest as an uncontracted player we would have some "independent" experts determine the draft pick we get. (See earlier post that explained this) This would depend on a range of things but especially his form, awards, etc.
.................................

It is weighted heavily towards the round they were picked in their respective draft. Blooming Late/Rookie picks will be undervalued, spud first round picks would be overvalued.

Also the compensatory pick you receive is not fixed in position should you decide to use it in the future, if we lost cooney for pick 26 in this draft but instead of using it in this draft, we save it for 2012 and we tank and get pick 1, we get pick 2 as well (so effectively pick 26 turns into pick 2).

Under the rules, from 2012 all first-round compensatory picks can be taken immediately after a team's first pick.

If the Cats extraordinarily finished last in 2012, they would get pick No. 1 and then No. 2 for Ablett - as long as they flagged before the start of the season that would would use their compensatory pick.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pick-26-for-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225831972227

 

[Martyn_30_]

Is there really a go home factor with Harbrow as he is originally from Cairns, Melbourne is the same distance to the Gold Coast as Cairns is to the Gold Coast

 

[stefoid]

true enough. I suppose with the proximity of the GC airport, its probably around 6 hours door to door from Melbourne and about 3.5 hours from GC?

 

[blowesy]

i understand people's ideas about leaving for the extra salary. However i don't believe you can compare playing football with a club to your work life. Most people here probly hate there jobs and therefore, are certain to leave if more money could be earned elsewhere. As a football player you have a commitment not just to the club but to the guys you have been playing with for the last few years of your life. these are the guys you should be showing loyality towards

 

[h0psing]

Any player, whether it be Harbrow or Cooney or whoever, if they are found out to have signed on or committed to the Gold Farce team should spend the season with Williamstown thirds playing out their contract. The club expects the players to have skill, ability as well as loyalty and commitment to the club (used to be a big sign at the Western Oval changerooms saying commitment). By saying they'll play with the Gold Farce they have shown they don't have the back bone or guts to provide the loyalty and commitment to the club, its players and supporters and can't be trusted to put 100 percent into the games they play with us, they are just playing for the money along the lines of Judus Brown, Judd and Buckley.

Loyalty is a two way street. If Cooney tears his hammy off the bone, the dogs are not going to guarantee him a big contract just because of loyalty and past service. They're going to pay market value for an injury risk.

To send Cooney to Willi (if he aggreed w/ GC) for the year is short sighted. Esp. for a team who have a legit. chance at a flag. A deal to leave next year is just that, a deal for NEXT YEAR and this year they are still a bulldog.

 

[dogwatch]

It is weighted heavily towards the round they were picked in their respective draft. Blooming Late/Rookie picks will be undervalued, spud first round picks would be overvalued.

Also the compensatory pick you receive is not fixed in position should you decide to use it in the future, if we lost cooney for pick 26 in this draft but instead of using it in this draft, we save it for 2012 and we tank and get pick 1, we get pick 2 as well (so effectively pick 26 turns into pick 2).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pick-26-for-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225831972227

Yes, 100A, I agree. This pretty much confirms my main points:

• The compensation won't really be adequate (except maybe for a team that finishes last or 2nd last in the year they elect to use their pick). The AFL's Andrew Dillon pretty much concedes this in the H/S article:

• "...in early 2008 [it] didn't include compensation - that was something the clubs pushed for," Dillon said. ... "At least [now] it provides something for a club that loses a player." (my emphasis)

• Yes, Harbrow could be judged as a recent rookie elevation (so we'd get a third round pick in all probability) but is more likely to be judged on B&F results and/or salary, in which case we might be lucky enough to snare a mid-2nd round pick.
• I'm pretty sure there was also a clause that qualifies the use of where they were picked in the draft. I think it only applies for their first 4 years on the list, so it wouldn't apply to say Tom Williams who was picked up at #6 in 2004. In his case it would probably be on how he went in our B&F (largely unsighted so far, mainly due to injury) and on salary. So we'd get dudded there too.
• Yes you could in theory get a #2 pick for a Cooney (as well as having #1) but the value of the compensation pick quickly diminishes the higher up the ladder you finish. No club in their right mind would use the compensation pick in 2010 or 2011 because of the raft of freebies given to the GC and WS. So let's say in 2012 about 6 clubs say they will use their first-round compensatory pick. Most likely they will be clubs destined to finish outside the top 6 (for reasons that should be obvious - the stronger teams will hang on to their picks until they think they are going to finish lower down the order, or if their pick is about to expire in year 5). In my hypothetical scenario we finish 6th but six other clubs below us have used their compensation pick. That means our first (normal) pick would be 13 + 6 (ie 12 teams below us plus 6 of them inserting their first round compensatory pick) = 19. Then our compensatory pick for a Cooney would be allocated straight after that (ie 20).

Clearly if we felt the club was on the slide ("rebuilding phase") we might hold off for another year or two to get something better (hopefully around pick 10 or 12). We might even tank to optimise it further. [Woops, did I say that? I forgot, Andrew D tells us that NEVER happens, no matter how great the incentive.]

All this of course assumes the AFL will not tamper with the Nat Draft from 2012 on, and it will be "natural". On past form I'd rate that about a 2% likelihood, so clubs like ours could find we slide even further down the order, depending on how they choose to tamper with it.

One other risk is that the AFL may have overdone their handouts and make the two new clubs TOO successful (like they did with Brisbane ... who, to be fair, did a lot of things right themselves).

I think we are expected to view it as the necessary pain to get two new and highly competitive clubs into the AFL. Perhaps that's OK, as long as the pain is shared equally by all the existing 16 clubs. The reality is that some clubs will be hit hard and some will get off fairly lightly. We just don't know which ones yet.

 

[GoalSneak38]

does ricky 'o manage any of our players apart from Cooney and Lake? this quote just has me a bit worried we will be one of the clubs that have to give up something:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-clubs-strive-to-sign-pick-of-crop-20100217-odux.html



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-clubs-strive-to-sign-pick-of-crop-20100217-odux.html

Olerenshaw is a dodgy bung eyed flog! Wouldn't trust him as far as his mum could throw pasta.

 

[Spiritof82]

Loyalty is a two way street. If Cooney tears his hammy off the bone, the dogs are not going to guarantee him a big contract just because of loyalty and past service. They're going to pay market value for an injury risk.

To send Cooney to Willi (if he aggreed w/ GC) for the year is short sighted. Esp. for a team who have a legit. chance at a flag. A deal to leave next year is just that, a deal for NEXT YEAR and this year they are still a bulldog.

How could you trust a player who has signed or made a deal with another club without letting his current club know of the deal. How can you guarentee he is going to put 100 percent into his game and be loyal to his other team mates if he won't let on about a deal he's made, he's just showing that he's playing the game for the money not the team. Question, when Wallet went chasing money at the swines then the tiggers would've you been happy to see him finsih the season coaching the dogs knowing that his interest lay elsewhere? this applies for these players too, yes they can play out their contract but let them play in a different league to pay for their disloyalty to their fellow team members and supporters.

 

[charcoalchicken]

Would hate to see him go I really like the way he goes about his footy and will only develop into a much greater player because of it.

 

[adamcooney17]

we cant afford to loose harbrow he is very good off the half back flaink. has anyone spoken to him about it at training??

 

[The Coon Dog]

we cant afford to loose harbrow he is very good off the half back flaink. has anyone spoken to him about it at training??

And what's he gonna say?

Tell the truth & say he's staying or lie & say he's staying. Either way I'm sure if you ask him he'll say he's staying.

 

[BWFC]

I really like Harbrow and think he has huge potential. But if we have to lose a player and he is all we lose to Gold Coast, Id accept that. He's a young bloke and if he could get a massive contract that he realistically will never get at the dogs then he should go for it. I'd be doing my best to trade Williams to the gold coast.

 

[The Coon Dog]

I'd be doing my best to trade Williams to the gold coast.

Unfortunately with his injury history we be lucky to get anything in return.

 

[BWFC]

Unfortunately with his injury history we be lucky to get anything in return.

Even if we got nothing if we could somehow dangle him and only lose him that would be a coup.

 

[Go_Dogs]

And the next thing we have to worry about, free agency. I noted this morning in The Advertiser that Cooney and Griffen will become "go-home" targets of the Crows and Power once Free Agency is brought in.

Oh well, at least we can wait another couple of years before we need to start worrying about that!