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Harcourt presentation "bombshell"

  • Thread starter Thread starter 60sbomber
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60sbomber said:
The contents of AFL Medical Officer Peter Harcourt's presentation in Zurich in late 2013 is indeed a "bombshell".

It sheds light on what led to the ASADA investigation into the EFC supplement program and, even more significantly, it helps us understand some aspects of the way the investigation has evolved.

It reveals that in 2012 the AFL, for reasons not explained, suspected EFC of using banned substances. Combine this with the revelation of the contents of a letter provided to Essendon players and officials prior to their ASADA interviews, which states that the investigation was aimed at the suspected use of 3 growth hormone related peptides (GRHP-2 GRHP-6 & CJC1295), and we start to understand what the AFL & ASADA expected to find when the EFC was pushed into "self reporting" in Feb 2013.

Harcourt's presentation shows the fears that the AFL & ASADA had about player safety and cancer risks etc were a major concern, and underlay the dramatic nature of what the AFL leaked to Fairfax during the investigation.

However, after an investigation lasting 16 months, the expected outcome of EFC being found to have given growth hormone related peptides to its players has failed to emerge.

Despite their best attempts, the combined efforts of ASADA & the AFL have produced absolutely no evidence to support the original suspicion!

In July 2013, the AFL, having carefully laid the groundwork by selective leaks of damning tidbits of "evidence" via its Fairfax mouthpiece, is left in an awkward position. Essendon is winning enough games to make it a likely finals participant. The AFL has convinced the public that EFC has used illegal performance enhancing supplements. But there is still no sign of any damning evidence to support the original suspicion.

What can the AFL do? It solicits an interim report from ASADA with enough bits & pieces of emails & texts to make it look like something bad has happened (eventhough they can't find any evidence of it). They take strong action against the club, excluding them from the finals & imposing a ban on golden boy James Hird, who has threatened to upset the whole master plan by exposing the AFL manipulation of the investigation to its own chosen agenda. It then hopes the whole thing will fade away, with no further action against the players.

However, ASADA has a different need. Having been thrust into the role of prosecuting the case following the ACC "darkest day" press event, it can't just let the whole thing fade away.

The presumption of growth hormone use has proved to be a fallacy. Blood tests of the entire playing group have shown no sign of its use. No evidence of its use at EFC can found. But the whole investigation was founded on the belief it had been used.

ASADA is desperate to find something........anything, to justify its investigation, and not look like a lame duck pursuing something that doesn't exist.

AOD use is established, but ASADA can't prosecute it without looking incompetent for giving wrong advice.

What is left?
There is plenty of evidence that Dank used "thymosin", one form of which is banned. ASADA have enough in texts and emails involving Dank to be able to make a circumstantial case that it might have been the illegal TB4.

They have evidence from Charter that he ordered TB4 for Dank, and a non committal statement from Alavi that he could possibly have made up either the legal or the illegal form of "thymosin" for Dank from the raw materials provided by Charter.

The trouble is it is only a pathetically inadequate amount for the purpose it is supposed to have served. No matter, it is the best ASADA can come up with. Let's ignore that it might have been for use by Dank's customers other than EFC, let's ignore that there was only one invoice for this small amount of whichever form of thymosin it was, and that that invoice was withdrawn, presumably because the thymosin never reached the club.

TB4 it is then.

What started out as a hunt for human growth hormone related GRHP-2, GRHP-6 & CJC1295 ends up as a prosecution of an unlikely and trumped up case for the use of TB4.

Harcourt's fears for player health as a consequence of the use of HGH related substances is just an AFL illusion, conjured up by an over reaction to ACC suspicions that have proven unfounded.

Loveable Caroline's slanderous condemnation of James Hird and the EFC hierarchy turns out to be gutter journalism of award winning grandeur.

The heart wrenching story of "Sarah" remains a mystery to all those naive enough to doubt the depth to which the AFL is willing to stoop to manipulate public opinion.

Discuss.
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TL;DR So what you're saying is that they also used several HGH drugs, but covered their tracks better on those? Dirty cheats!
 
morgoth said:
Every ******* day we wake up to this shit.
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And every day you wake up and feel the need to get on here and bleat about it.
If it bothers you so much, don't read about it, let alone post about it
 

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Bazza37 said:
James Hird's attitude is quite simply
If I go down
I will bring the entire AFL organisation down with me.
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its all about James
 
Jedi Anderson said:
Your players are worried about self-incrimination in a case built on circumstantial evidence........discuss
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Your club and board are worried about informed players eventually suing them for all they are worth and thus are taking every step possibly to have the evidence hidden,...... discuss
 
djboonie said:
mmm wouldn't it be interesting if Dank/Bombers ordered, paid for, and administered peptides that 'broke down' in the compounding stage or in transport to be administered...

What happens then?
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Not much.

ASADA seem to have gone for a minimax strategy - maximise the minimum payoff. They've pared down the charges to what they'll know they'll win on, which appears to be the drug injected at the chiropractor. They lay their 34 player bans, have them stick for 18 months each, gutting the doping club for a good long time, and call it good enough to intimidate the next Juve/Real Sociedad/whoever that is thinking about doping their way into the Champions League.

Therefore, new maybe-evidence wont turn into new charges, as if ASADA wanted the 'hamburger with the lot' strategy, we'd have seen a bunch for infraction notices on a bunch of different substances.
 
Cheating dogs.

But its everyone elses fault. Governance and unlawfully investigated.... rubbish

Any chance this untrustworthy establishment could attempt to prove their innocence instead of trying to find ways to not have to answer the charges?
 

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Growth hormone has never been detected in a drug test, as far as I know the only person to be banned for it's use admitted to it, the others have been caught through their connection to sourcing the substances.

Growth hormone is mostly gone from the system within half a day, they need a blood test almost immediately after you inject it. I'm lead to believe that you can literally invite the testers into your home while you finish up in the shower, spend another 45 minutes to an hour in there and the test will not show a positive result.
 
Bazza37 said:
James Hird's attitude is quite simply
If I go down
I will bring the entire AFL organisation down with me.
Click to expand...
He's forced AD into retirement.
Now gunning for Clothier and AFLPA look very much like getting caught in the cross-fire as well.
Heads on the Commission also likely to fall especially Fitzpatrick

Would actually be a good thing for football if they were all run out of the game for good.
 
Bazza37 said:
Robbo you are a #*&%ing disgrace

Your defensive of Hird is embarrassing &
will eventually end your career !
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Can't wait till it is over and then the he tries to defend Hird not being thrown out of the Hall of Fame.
 
Tayl0r said:
Growth hormone has never been detected in a drug test, as far as I know the only person to be banned for it's use admitted to it, the others have been caught through their connection to sourcing the substances.

Growth hormone is mostly gone from the system within half a day, they need a blood test almost immediately after you inject it. I'm lead to believe that you can literally invite the testers into your home while you finish up in the shower, spend another 45 minutes to an hour in there and the test will not show a positive result.
Click to expand...
So Essendon might have clean hands in this court case (you can't throw fruit at me on the internet).
 

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Jedi Anderson said:
So Essendon might have clean hands in this court case (you can't throw fruit at me on the internet).
Click to expand...

Perhaps they think they do but they might be arguing that someone's parking fines mean their testimony on EFC's growth hormone use, enough to sink them, means the witness is unreliable.

Courts have higher burden of proof required to successfully prosecute a case against the players than a tribunal, so testing the evidence there is a smart play.
 
60sbomber said:
The presumption of growth hormone use has proved to be a fallacy. Blood tests of the entire playing group have shown no sign of its use. No evidence of its use at EFC can found. But the whole investigation was founded on the belief it had been used.

ASADA is desperate to find something........anything, to justify its investigation, and not look like a lame duck pursuing something that doesn't exist.

AOD use is established, but ASADA can't prosecute it without looking incompetent for giving wrong advice.

What is left?
There is plenty of evidence that Dank used "thymosin", one form of which is banned. ASADA have enough in texts and emails involving Dank to be able to make a circumstantial case that it might have been the illegal TB4.

They have evidence from Charter that he ordered TB4 for Dank, and a non committal statement from Alavi that he could possibly have made up either the legal or the illegal form of "thymosin" for Dank from the raw materials provided by Charter.

The trouble is it is only a pathetically inadequate amount for the purpose it is supposed to have served. No matter, it is the best ASADA can come up with. Let's ignore that it might have been for use by Dank's customers other than EFC, let's ignore that there was only one invoice for this small amount of whichever form of thymosin it was, and that that invoice was withdrawn, presumably because the thymosin never reached the club.

TB4 it is then.

What started out as a hunt for human growth hormone related GRHP-2, GRHP-6 & CJC1295 ends up as a prosecution of an unlikely and trumped up case for the use of TB4.
.
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You know AOD is a modified fragment of growth hormone don't you? So by confirming AOD, they have confirmed a form of HGH use, they just don't seem to be able to prosecute it.

So the rumours that ASADA heard that Esendon were using HGH were 100% spot on. They just got the exact substance wrong, becuase they assumed no-one would be so bloody stupid and unethical they would inject substances not finished clinical trials and not approved for human use into an entire playing list of athletes.

Enter Essendon... ethics optional.
 
60sbomber said:
It reveals that in 2012 the AFL, for reasons not explained, suspected EFC of using banned substances.

Discuss.
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The Australian Crime Commission felt the need to start Project Aperio in Feb 2012 and their first port of call was to interview Dank in March 2012 ... simply out of idle curiosity? All a coincidence I guess.
 
Randomizor said:
And if EFC had just stayed away from anything slightly borderline in the first place none of this would have happened. Easier to blame the AFL and ASADA though isn't it?
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When you're guilty as f***, attack the process of discovery.
 
Tayl0r said:
Courts have higher burden of proof required to successfully prosecute a case against the players than a tribunal, so testing the evidence there is a smart play.
Click to expand...

The evidence against the players will not be tested in the Federal Court. The Court gives not one shit about WHAT the evidence is.

This case is about HOW the evidence was gathered and if any errors made in the HOW are enough to justify locking that evidence away and prohibiting it's use.

And even if the Court decides to lock the evidence away, the Court still won't give a shit WHAT is going in the sealed box.
 

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