Harcourt presentation "bombshell"

[Devington]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawks-set-the-pace-in-injection-science-20120924-26hhg.html

As memory serves that's all in relation to a legal, and non prohibited, blood cycling treatment. Only other players off hand that I think I can recall using it is Cooney and N Riewoldt. It doesn't involve injecting any supplements per se.

 

[ABRL]

Pretty silly for the AFL to let this guy go and give this talk at a time when the investigation was still very much on foot.

I wonder if he cleared the contents of his presentation with the higher ups.

 

[Devington]

In regards to the AFL having suspicions about Essendon back in 2012, I'm of the opinion that they probably did close to all they could. They heard something they didn't like from ASADA, so interviewed James and laid down the law. For one reason or another (the rumour mill) they still had concerns, so requested tests well above what would normally be conducted, which then came back negative. From that point on I'm not sure what else they could have really done. If they didn't have any evidence, just rumours, what should they have done?

The second Vlad was briefed by the ACC though, the whole landscape changed.

I can't recall any "evidence" being mentioned, or anything like that before Essendon self reported. So while the AFL was trying to mitigate damage once Vlad got briefed, I think they probably did close to the best they could before then, in a pre integrity department/rules overhaul time.

Does that all sound reasonable?

 

[I Rock]

Pretty silly for the AFL to let this guy go and give this talk at a time when the investigation was still very much on foot.

I wonder if he cleared the contents of his presentation with the higher ups.

He only spoke about the AFL's involvement and that had already come to an official conclusion.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Sorry if this has been addressed, I haven't read this entire thread.

When the AFL sent the samples for testing in 2012 it was through ASADA. Would ASADA have known the source of the samples at that point or would the AFL have kept that confidential?

The AFL had a whiff of EFC in 2012 but when did ASADA?

 

[I Rock]

The AFL had a whiff of EFC in 2012 but when did ASADA?

According to ASADA they were watching Dank for 18 months (check dates) before they phoned the ACC.

 

[hoianbulldog]

According to ASADA they were watching Dank for 18 months (check dates) before they phoned the ACC.

Yes, of course.....I could imagine there surprise when the AFL came knocking and said can you test these 30 EFC players samples for us.

 

[ABRL]

He only spoke about the AFL's involvement and that had already come to an official conclusion.

....And you really think the timing and forum of this was all fine and dandy?

Given the reticence to comment at that stage (and to this day) of people much higher up in the AFL, ie Demetriou, McLachlan etc?



I highly doubt they were informed.

*edit or this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-03/no-passive-acceptance

But speaking Thursday afternoon, Players' Association acting chief executive Ian Prendergast said he wouldn't be calling for Dr Harcourt to be stripped of his position.
"I think considering the circumstances, no," Prendergast said.
"They've explained that Peter didn't think, or wasn't aware that those comments would become public.
"We do think in the circumstances we need to be extremely careful about confidentiality and protecting this information."

 

[I Rock]

....And you really think the timing and forum of this was all fine and dandy?

Given the reticence to comment at that stage (and to this day) of people much higher up in the AFL, ie Demetriou, McLachlan etc?



I highly doubt they were informed.

*edit or this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-03/no-passive-acceptance

But speaking Thursday afternoon, Players' Association acting chief executive Ian Prendergast said he wouldn't be calling for Dr Harcourt to be stripped of his position.
"I think considering the circumstances, no," Prendergast said.
"They've explained that Peter didn't think, or wasn't aware that those comments would become public.
"We do think in the circumstances we need to be extremely careful about confidentiality and protecting this information."

That's nice.

 

[nineteen eighty]

This is the most baffling thing of all time. What the hell were they thinking to keep going?

That's when Hird brought olé mate Charter into the picture. Charter and Dank were able to convince Hird that they can pull this off without being picked up in a positive test even though ASADA had already fired a warning across the bow.

How farkin stupid and arrogant!

 

[morgoth]

Yawn. So the afl cmo presented on the afl report.

Little calls for action to be taken against him. Remind me again what action essendon took against doc Reid? You know the bloke who was meant to oversee the whole program?


Little should get his own shop in order starting with Reid and Albert before he starts carrying on.

 

[FuManchu]

Yawn. So the afl cmo presented on the afl report.

Little calls for action to be taken against him. Remind me again what action essendon took against doc Reid? You know the bloke who was meant to oversee the whole program?


Little should get his own shop in order starting with Reid and Albert before he starts carrying on.

No, I won't hear of any criticism of Reid.... he wrote a letter. What more could he have done in the circumstance?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawks-set-the-pace-in-injection-science-20120924-26hhg.html

I love Bomber posters clinging to that article about a therapy used to get players back on the field.

I especially love the part that they skip over... every. single. time.

Guerra received the treatment, as did St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt. But the player who encouraged Marks that the treatment could revolutionise AFL football came from Essendon.

 

[lysp]

My point was purely that it was not a single club, many clubs undertake injections.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

I just made up a joke (I don't subscribed to it) but I think you might like it.

What does IggyposTshirt & a syringe full of Danks mystery substance have in common? - They are both unwanted pricks.

Bill Burr you ain't.

 

[Admiral Byng]

According to ASADA they were watching Dank for 18 months (check dates) before they phoned the ACC.

The ACC were also watching Charters. Having this bloke who has previous drug-related convictions go to China and buy drugs over there to carry back to Australia would have made the ACC very curious to find out what they were. At this time the ACC were contacting ASADA too to find out more about these substances.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

My point was purely that it was not a single club, many clubs undertake injections.

Do many clubs undertake a program designed to push the boundaries, in an attempt to get bigger and stronger quickly, involving hundreds of injections of experimental drugs?

 

[lysp]

Do many clubs undertake a program designed to push the boundaries, in an attempt to get bigger and stronger quickly, involving hundreds of injections of experimental drugs?

Do many clubs not?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Do many clubs not?

Name the clubs that had an employee, have a convicted drug dealer go to China and source drugs for him?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Andy D clearly knew about it long before the ACC reared their ugly head. But the fact remains, the ACC did not tell Andy D which team was involved. That he knew it was Essendon, had nothing to do with the ACC. Therefore he didn't break the law (even though we all know he tipped them off).

What did the confidentiality agreement cover, then?

 

[SterlingArcher]

TB4 it is then.

What started out as a hunt for human growth hormone related GRHP-2, GRHP-6 & CJC1295 ends up as a prosecution of an unlikely and trumped up case for the use of TB4.

Harcourt's fears for player health as a consequence of the use of HGH related substances is just an AFL illusion, conjured up by an over reaction to ACC suspicions that have proven unfounded.

Loveable Caroline's slanderous condemnation of James Hird and the EFC hierarchy turns out to be gutter journalism of award winning grandeur.

The heart wrenching story of "Sarah" remains a mystery to all those naive enough to doubt the depth to which the AFL is willing to stoop to manipulate public opinion.

Discuss.

Lol'd.

Here's my one-sided opinion full of descriptive exaggeration and mocking, discuss.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

What did the confidentiality agreement cover, then?

That is an interesting question!

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Do many clubs not?

It is a very good question.
My take on this is that there are players at each club that possibly use PEDs. To think that nobody does is naive.
However, I do not think that there have been any or at least many clubs which ran programs for all players.
To do so is incredibly difficult to keep quiet. Hence that's how we found out about Essendon....

 

[DapperDon]

If you keep putting wood on a fire it will keep burning. Leave him and he will go away, he has been trolling for weeks now just baiting everyone. Nobody could be as stupid as he makes out to be.

Someone has been trolling anti Essendon supporters for a few weeks?

How ever have you coped bro? it must have been difficult for you.

 

[Trent85]

As memory serves that's all in relation to a legal, and non prohibited, blood cycling treatment. Only other players off hand that I think I can recall using it is Cooney and N Riewoldt. It doesn't involve injecting any supplements per se.

Orthokine or Regenokine is classified under PRP (platelet-derived preparations) which isn't banned or prohibited for use in sport by WADA.

Media reports in today’s Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald have incorrectly reported that the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) ‘approves’ the method referred to as Orthokine therapy.

ASADA’s primary role is to apply the World Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) Prohibited List in Australia.

WADA is responsible for establishing what substances or methods are prohibited in sport.

ASADA can only advise Australia’s sporting community of Orthokine’s status in sport as ruled by WADA.

WADA has previously advised ASADA that it considers Orthokine a variation of the Platelet-Derived Preparations (PRP) method, commonly referred to as blood spinning.

Under WADA’s Prohibited List, Orthokine is not prohibited for use in sport.

http://asada.govspace.gov.au/2012/09/25/clarification-orthokine/

The above statement was released by ASADA not long after the article which was being debated by lysp and Echols


Just so knowone thinks I'm pulling a fast one from Q & A on 2014 Prohibited List (WADA)

What is the status of platelet derived preparations (PRP)?

Despite the presence of some growth factors, platelet-derived preparations were removed from the List as current studies on PRP do not demonstrate any potential for performance enhancement beyond a potential therapeutic effect.

Note that individual growth factors are still prohibited when given separately as purified substances as described in S.2.5.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/World-An...s/Prohibited-List/QA-on-2014-Prohibited-List/

Also the AFL even talked about this last year...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...te-afl-crackdown/story-e6frf9jf-1226622034107

THE cutting-edge medical procedures allowing stars Nick Riewoldt and Adam Cooney to continue their careers will still be allowed despite an AFL crackdown on injections.

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou has pledged restrictions on most injections not used for pain-killing purposes after Essendon's dramas forced a comprehensive audit of medical practices.

Players including Geelong's Paul Chapman and Hawthorn's Brent Guerra have sworn by similar practices, with Riewoldt acknowledging the sensitivity of injections during a recent press conference.

But AFL Medical Officers Association chief Hugh Seward said those procedures were medically approved by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

"They are mainstream medical therapies, which is quite a different case. There is no ban on injection therapies which are standard accepted practice," he said. "People have painkillers, or go to hospital and have procedures done.

"The talk (from the AFL) is about injections which aren't mainstream medical practices. These practices are approved by ASADA and it's quite different from fringe practices that have no significant evidence behind them."