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List Mgmt. Hard decisions

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BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
A total rebuild or renovation?
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Just a sensible, pragmatic, minor renovation using players that are already on our list though the longer we leave it the bigger the problem gets and the close you get to rebuild territory.

At this stage, there is just a bit of tweaking required. We're holding onto a few players we don't need (Howlett and this is quickly becoming Dempsey) and playing veterans whose best days are behind them and who do not add the midfield run and grunt that we need (Chapman, Cooney and Winderlich who would be playing if he wasn't injured).

It's 4 spots in a best 22 (and would be 5) that could and should be being used to accelerate the development of Jack Merrett, Kav, Browne, Dalgleish (injury aside he was fit for round one, played very well in NAB 2 and 3 and still started the season in the VFL), Fantasia, I would say Aylett and even Langford and Laverde who potentially add a lot of quality to the side in the long term and all of who fit the athletic profile required for modern footballers (even if size and strength is building).

Our prospect of making the finals is basically unchanged even if we're a little more inconsistent and can't quite reach the same heights (to finish 5th or 6th).

That we have no better option than Fletcher in his position and, more significantly, that there isn't a player on the list that even looks likely, borders on a bad joke (if people think Carlisle, Hooker or Hurley have the versatility in their games to play Fletcher's role I recon they're in for a rude shock).
 
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BrunoV said:
Just a sensible, pragmatic, minor renovation using players that are already on our list though the longer we leave it the bigger the problem gets and the close you get to rebuild territory.

At this stage, there is just a bit of tweaking required. We're holding onto a few players we don't need (Howlett and this is quickly becoming Dempsey) and playing veterans whose best days are behind them and who do not add the midfield run and grunt that we need (Chapman, Cooney and Winderlich who would be playing if he wasn't injured).

It's 4 spots in a best 22 (and would be 5) that could and should be being used to accelerate the development of Jack Merrett, Kav, Browne, Dalgleish (injury aside he was fit for round one, played very well in NAB 2 and 3 and still started the season in the VFL), Fantasia, I would say Aylett and even Langford and Laverde who potentially add a lot of quality to the side in the long term and all of who fit the athletic profile required for modern footballers (even if size and strength is building).

Our prospect of making the change is basically unchanged even if we're a little more inconsistent and can quite reach the same heights (ton finish 5th or 6th).

That we have no better option than Fletcher in his position and, more significantly, that there isn't a player on the list that even looks likely, borders on a bad joke (if people think Carlisle, Hooker or Hurley have the versatility in their games to play Fletcher's role I recon they're in for a rude shock).
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Hooker or Hurley cant but Carlilse is more than capable of replacing Fletcher imo.
 

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fishardansin said:
Ok guys I'm going to say it. This current list will not win a flag. I don't mean none of the current players will, I mean none that are in the second half of their career.

There is no way we'll overtake Hawks, Freo or Sydney before GWS and, after a few tweaks, GCS take over the league.

I think the current Richmond and North squads are similar to us that they'll peak somewhere between 3rd and 6th and then fall away. So in my eyes the race is on to quickly rebuild. I think we can be a good side in the peak of Daniher, Heppell and Z. Merrett's career and the back end of Hurley, Hooker, Colyer, Zaharakis and Carlise's careers.

What are your thoughts on this? Should we keep tweeking this list or prune it right back?
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Two things:
1. With ASAGA going on we have not had a chance to assess the list that we have. Players have never before had to play under the levels of stress that this team has endured, so talk of a rebuild right now is therefore ridiculous. Furthermore, this list has to be backed in for the good of the club culture. Even if they play out the next 4 years and only win a few finals, that will be a victory in the grander scheme of things. The clubs very existence would have been on the line if the players hadn't held strong.

2.
a) Our defense is flag ready.
b) Our midfield is really interesting right now... it requires one of Myers or Hocking at all times clearly, but look at the gains we have made this year in the form of Stanton's new lease on life, Cooney showing he is not done yet and Colyer continuing on last seasons efforts. These players were the real question marks going into this season. The actual issues that have arisen are with Watson and Heppell being uncharacteristically up and down (probably because we are missing Myers and Hocking), and Zaka being out of touch. I think we have the cattle here to win a flag.
c) Our forward line is where the buck stops when it comes to winning a flag with this list. What is going on? I'm seriously not sure. But if we want to point the finger in the sense of questioning credentials, this is where it has to fall. JD is useful but is still weak in the contest. Carlisle is useful but hasn't found his mojo. Chappy is hot and cold, but is probably in his last season regardless. Ambrose plays a role but needs to either lift or be replaced. I'm not sure BJ is as good a forward as he is made out to be. And that about covers it! No wonder it is our weak area! As i said in the preseason, everything really depends on Carlisle this year and next. If he dominates, then JD can get off the leash and make more of an impact. But we also need our resting mids to show more nous around the goals... They all seem to be more capable of running forward as midfielders and kicking goals, when we really need the likes of Zach or Colyer to become genuine crumbers. So in short, we need Carlisle and Ambrose to come good (or find a ready made CHF) and we need someone in our midfield to show more forward abilities (other than Chappy). That's not too tall and order to have this list flag ready i wouldn't have thought?

Some people here are talking about the likes of Howlett as being needed to be moved on. In the next breath they are saying our depth is shit. Howlett would be unlikely to be getting a game if Hocking and Myers were both fit, and in their absence has been extremely solid and useful as depth. Do people really think that a depth player is going to get you a win against Freo!? Howlett has been playing his role beyond any doubt.
 
DapperJong said:
I can never decide between the beef or the chicken at weddings.

All my friends are getting married.

I'm pretty lonely.
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RSVP with a +1.

Show up alone and eat both.

Still lonely, but at least you have chicken.
 
BrunoV said:
Just a sensible, pragmatic, minor renovation using players that are already on our list though the longer we leave it the bigger the problem gets and the close you get to rebuild territory.

At this stage, there is just a bit of tweaking required.
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Basically this. More gameplan tweaking than list tweaking IMO though, although it definitely involves a bit of both. Young spine very much plays in our favour as well, and that's something that's easier to build around than doing it the other way around.

What is probably more important is building some kind of fitness base, it's all well and good to be able to trample any given side on any given day, but being able to do that consistently is another issue entirely
 

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Big Fresh said:
Langford played some TAC Cup games in the guts and I recall Hird describing him as a potential ball winning mid. He might be more useful as a forward though.
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Yeah I can imagine him doing it as a youngster where not all the bodies are as developed. But I think he will be better used as maybe even a Roughead role.
 
We just need to play kids, in the sense that blokes like Fantasia, Laverde, Langford should be getting weekly games. McKernan and Kavanagh are killing it in the VFL and deserve selection. It's not gifting them games, they should just be a part of the side. Look at Port Adelaide the last couple of years, just because they are young doesn't mean they can't play a role.

On the flipside, Chappy needs to retire immediately, as much as I love the bloke I don't know why we signed him. Also don't reckon he's been that great for us, seems to just get overrated in his performances for us because he's Chappy. Hasn't been bad but hasn't been really good either. Blokes like Ambrose and Howlett aren't offering us anything.

We can still win a flag with this group, just we are hindering our chances by denying our younger players.
 
Fairly much agree with Bruno's post - Anyway natural attrition will lead toi rebuilding - We have 7 to 10 guys who will battle to stay on the list in 2016 - It's a matter of how well the List management/recruiting team can ring the changes.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Reality is until ASAGA is finalised we'll be making no hard decisions.

We're dictated by the possibility of lengthy suspensions, and the other clubs using the saga as an opportunity to get into our players - as happened with Ryder and attempted with Winderlich.
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Unfortunately this. Last week I was sharing the same line of thinking as the OP. But at this stage its hard to see how we can make these hard decisions until the result is known. Even if the players are found not guilty again by the time that decision is made it will be too late for hard list management decisions to be made next year.
 
BrunoV said:
Just a sensible, pragmatic, minor renovation using players that are already on our list though the longer we leave it the bigger the problem gets and the close you get to rebuild territory.

At this stage, there is just a bit of tweaking required. We're holding onto a few players we don't need (Howlett and this is quickly becoming Dempsey) and playing veterans whose best days are behind them and who do not add the midfield run and grunt that we need (Chapman, Cooney and Winderlich who would be playing if he wasn't injured).

It's 4 spots in a best 22 (and would be 5) that could and should be being used to accelerate the development of Jack Merrett, Kav, Browne, Dalgleish (injury aside he was fit for round one, played very well in NAB 2 and 3 and still started the season in the VFL), Fantasia, I would say Aylett and even Langford and Laverde who potentially add a lot of quality to the side in the long term and all of who fit the athletic profile required for modern footballers (even if size and strength is building).

Our prospect of making the finals is basically unchanged even if we're a little more inconsistent and can't quite reach the same heights (to finish 5th or 6th).

That we have no better option than Fletcher in his position and, more significantly, that there isn't a player on the list that even looks likely, borders on a bad joke (if people think Carlisle, Hooker or Hurley have the versatility in their games to play Fletcher's role I recon they're in for a rude shock).
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Carlisle plays on resting ruck, Hooker on the gorilla and Hurley monsters the 3rd tall. I agree about Dempsey if his form doesn't improve. I'd actually also say that Watson is not the same player he was 2 years ago and that will continue to decline. Chappy is in his last year. Cooney and Goddard will still be playing next year. I'd love to see Fletch play a game or two up forward.

We need to cut dead wood through all ages on our list. This means those 3rd-4th year players your mention need a few games each this year so we can make the call on them at the end of the year.
 

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List Mgmt. Hard decisions

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