List Mgmt. Hard decisions

[eth-dog]

I think that if there's a little tweak in game plan and personnel in the forward line to become more efficient up there we're every chance.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

ASAGA aside, I think we're clearly having a crack this year and next.

But unless we get there or bloody, bloody close, it'll be time to strip the list back a bit.

God I hope they do it and don't do a Carlton.

 

[Run and carry]

Problem is that there is no one that really excites me in the two's. Perhaps depth is an issue for most clubs and injuries might be more detrimental these days. I know that players spring up but I'm not convinced that there are real stars coming through.

 

[reincarnated]

I think we got prematurely excited about our midfield.

Heppell was a huge get. Really excited about Zerrett. But when you look at the other young mids coming through, it is very scary.

Kav, Jerrett, Browne and Hams

Really losing hope with first 3. Hams really need to beef up if he wants to be inside mid.

Raz is showing some promise but probably be playing in the wing /small forward role.

Laverde and Langford, not sure if they will be pure midfielders.

After screaming out for midfielders, we still haven't landed a good group of young mids. Parker would have been nice.

Like it has been pointed out the group of older players in Watson, Stanton, Goddard, Cooney and Hocking only going to drop off from this year from their best.

We seem like we will drop off. Which will be disaster as some of the good defense we have built up and spine will leave as free agents.

 

[Towno78]

Yeh nah

 

[lenny2013]

ASAGA aside, I think we're clearly having a crack this year and next.

But unless we get there or bloody, bloody close, it'll be time to strip the list back a bit.

God I hope they do it and don't do a Carlton.

If we can't win a final this year with our experienced list it's time to make the hard decisions.

If we wait any longer, say the end of 2016 to take action we will be on the way to doing a Carlton imo.

A lot of aging players in the best 22/ fringe!

Fletch (40)
Chapman (33) 34 in Nov
Winderlich (30) 31 in Oct
Watson (30)
Goddard (29) 30 in May
Cooney (29) 30 in Sep
Stanton (29)
Gwilt (28) 29 in Aug
Baguley (27) 28 in May
Dempsey (27) 28 in Aug
Hocking (27) 28 in Dec
Giles (27)

 

[Cristiano Ronaldo]

I think we got prematurely excited about our midfield.

Heppell was a huge get. Really excited about Zerrett. But when you look at the other young mids coming through, it is very scary.

Kav, Jerrett, Browne and Hams

Really losing hope with first 3. Hams really need to beef up if he wants to be inside mid.

Raz is showing some promise but probably be playing in the wing /small forward role.

Laverde and Langford, not sure if they will be pure midfielders.

After screaming out for midfielders, we still haven't landed a good group of young mids. Parker would have been nice.

Like it has been pointed out the group of older players in Watson, Stanton, Goddard, Cooney and Hocking only going to drop off from this year from their best.

We seem like we will drop off. Which will be disaster as some of the good defense we have built up and spine will leave as free agents.

Or they could bloom/improve significantly like Colyer after all was thought lost. Have those first 4 you've mentioned even played 50 games combined? It's too early to call mkay

 

[Blind Turn]

We will win the premiership, with the current list, this year...

I can't think any other way unless we are statistically out of finals contention or if we have a genuinely rebuilding side like the Saints.

We have a core team capable of beating anyone on their day when fit and available. If we time our run of form well we still have the players to take us there.

My delusion is backed by the fact that we can't kick winning scores, we are one-paced, and we desperately need a quality small forward. I feel dubiously confident about our disability to perform cohesively at the wrong time of year. Bring it!

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

So four weeks ago people are saying top four and now rebuild?

Frankly I think both have been too extreme. I believe our list is in good shape and that we are still on the right track.

Sure what we are showing right now is crap, but I don't think we are as far away as it seems.

Both forward lines and back lines need time together to be a well oiled machine. Look at what people were saying about our defence, Hooker etc a couple of years back.

We need patience to stay the course IMO. Look at Hawthorn in 2006 and their supporters were frustrated about them going sideways and backward all the time.

It takes time to have the confidence to play the way you train without fear of failure and time for them to have confidence in the predictability of running patterns and the forward line in which they kick it to.

I reckon it will click sometime this year and we will see a very different Essendon.

 

[bombadeer]

Fine I just feel that Carlise's talents are being wasted up forward unless he can prove me wrong.

I honestly believe if Carlisle cannot make it as a forward, we look to trade him. Hooker and Hurley are better and more versatile players, and Jake is too poor at ground level to go third tall.

He either plays as a tall forward or we trade him to a team that needs a potential AA defender (there are about 17 of them).

 

[lenny2013]

I honestly believe if Carlisle cannot make it as a forward, we look to trade him. Hooker and Hurley are better and more versatile players, and Jake is too poor at ground level to go third tall.

He either plays as a tall forward or we trade him to a team that needs a potential AA defender (there are about 17 of them).

You do realise Carlisle is uncontracted?
If we try to trade Carlisle now we will get shafted similar to the Ryder deal, especially with the WADA appeal.

 

[BrunoV]

Basically this. More gameplan tweaking than list tweaking IMO though, although it definitely involves a bit of both. Young spine very much plays in our favour as well, and that's something that's easier to build around than doing it the other way around.

What is probably more important is building some kind of fitness base, it's all well and good to be able to trample any given side on any given day, but being able to do that consistently is another issue entirely

The only thing I would add further is that there is a very strong correlation between the way we play and the characteristics of the team. We play slow crabby football because it suits a side of average runners with average skills. As the team evolves the style will evolve.

The question is whether we are playing this shit football for the right reasons and I don't think we are.

 

[daffo]

So four weeks ago people are saying top four and now rebuild?

Frankly I think both have been too extreme. I believe our list is in good shape and that we are still on the right track.

Sure what we are showing right now is crap, but I don't think we are as far away as it seems.

Both forward lines and back lines need time together to be a well oiled machine. Look at what people were saying about our defence, Hooker etc a couple of years back.

We need patience to stay the course IMO. Look at Hawthorn in 2006 and their supporters were frustrated about them going sideways and backward all the time.

It takes time to have the confidence to play the way you train without fear of failure and time for them to have confidence in the predictability of running patterns and the forward line in which they kick it to.

I reckon it will click sometime this year and we will see a very different Essendon.

I agree, we are not top four. We are not bottom four. The pressure issue is with this age bracket we need to win a final this year and take another step next year. 2016 needs to be the year we go deep or win the whole thing. After that we will have a drop off in form due to senior important players slowing down.

 

[hurlygurdy]

I agree, we are not top four. We are not bottom four. The pressure issue is with this age bracket we need to win a final this year and take another step next year. 2016 needs to be the year we go deep or win the whole thing. After that we will have a drop off in form due to senior important players slowing down.

We need to get to top four this year. Anything can happen in finals so it isn't a good yard stick, but we are more in control of the outcomes throughout the year.

 

[fishardansin]

So four weeks ago people are saying top four and now rebuild?

Frankly I think both have been too extreme. I believe our list is in good shape and that we are still on the right track.

Sure what we are showing right now is crap, but I don't think we are as far away as it seems.

Both forward lines and back lines need time together to be a well oiled machine. Look at what people were saying about our defence, Hooker etc a couple of years back.

We need patience to stay the course IMO. Look at Hawthorn in 2006 and their supporters were frustrated about them going sideways and backward all the time.

It takes time to have the confidence to play the way you train without fear of failure and time for them to have confidence in the predictability of running patterns and the forward line in which they kick it to.

I reckon it will click sometime this year and we will see a very different Essendon.

I'm guilty of both. Because if our best 22 was close to being available most weeks like Port have plus Daniher, Bellchambers and Carlisle came on as expected plus Hibberd and Dempsey in top form we are close to a top four side.

Myers and Hocking out cruels our stoppage work. Hibberd and Dempsey work with Colyer, who's been great, and Zaka, who's been injured, to give us run that means direct footy.

If Carlisle and Daniher were playing as expected and Cooney and Chappy were fit and in form we have a forward line.

I feel that even if everyone comes back from injury we still won't see enough recapturing form and gelling properly.

I think it's bad enough to say we'll struggle to make finals. Which means we'll have a side with hardly any finals experience and two of our top three on the wane (Watson and Goddard) and one year to have a crack at it before GWS and GCS sweep all before them (don't be fooled by GCS current malaise).

I also think if this WADA thing is hanging over our head again at the end of the season our players can shop themselves around without having to worry too much about the other club having to trade too hard.

So let's play the kids this year and cut half of them at the end of the year. Trade/delist fringe players in second half of their career. Go hard at the draft for 2 years. Front load contracts for our stars. Then when we have a good spread of talent from Hookers age down to kids who are currently 16 and some salary cap room we can hit FA with an extra or two.

However, if shit turns around with everyone coming back and finding form we should aim for top 4 this year, throw some cash at Danger for FA, trade for Bennell and still have two good kids in the draft.

That means we'll have to cut players like O'Brien and Kav without really looking at them in AFL. It also means that after a season or two we'll have to prune very hard.

 

[Ambrosia]

Carlisle is the slowest of the three? Fletcher players on the mid-sized runner as often as the resting ruck.

When does Fletcher take mid-sized runners? Fletcher has struggled against blokes who cover a lot of ground for years imo. His best match-ups are resting ruckman, stay at home small forwards and midfielders who are resting deep forward.

I do agree that none of Hurley, Hooker and Carlisle have the agility to play small and may not work well together.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I'm guilty of both. Because if our best 22 was close to being available most weeks like Port have plus Daniher, Bellchambers and Carlisle came on as expected plus Hibberd and Dempsey in top form we are close to a top four side.

Myers and Hocking out cruels our stoppage work. Hibberd and Dempsey work with Colyer, who's been great, and Zaka, who's been injured, to give us run that means direct footy.

If Carlisle and Daniher were playing as expected and Cooney and Chappy were fit and in form we have a forward line.

I feel that even if everyone comes back from injury we still won't see enough recapturing form and gelling properly.

I think it's bad enough to say we'll struggle to make finals. Which means we'll have a side with hardly any finals experience and two of our top three on the wane (Watson and Goddard) and one year to have a crack at it before GWS and GCS sweep all before them (don't be fooled by GCS current malaise).

I also think if this WADA thing is hanging over our head again at the end of the season our players can shop themselves around without having to worry too much about the other club having to trade too hard.

So let's play the kids this year and cut half of them at the end of the year. Trade/delist fringe players in second half of their career. Go hard at the draft for 2 years. Front load contracts for our stars. Then when we have a good spread of talent from Hookers age down to kids who are currently 16 and some salary cap room we can hit FA with an extra or two.

However, if shit turns around with everyone coming back and finding form we should aim for top 4 this year, throw some cash at Danger for FA, trade for Bennell and still have two good kids in the draft.

That means we'll have to cut players like O'Brien and Kav without really looking at them in AFL. It also means that after a season or two we'll have to prune very hard.

The problem with playing kids and not giving ourselves the best chance for our best 22 to gel with the game plan is what you suggest - players shopping themselves at end of year easily due to WADA saga. If you don't play the best 22 and we don't finish as high as we could playing the best available then those players will have more reason to want to leave Essendon.

This aside from my belief that we are not as far away as you suggest.

 

[BrunoV]

When does Fletcher take mid-sized runners? Fletcher has struggled against blokes who cover a lot of ground for years imo. His best match-ups are resting ruckman, stay at home small forwards and midfielders who are resting deep forward.

I do agree that none of Hurley, Hooker and Carlisle have the agility to play small and may not work well together.

The bolded types are what I was referring to I was clumsily trying to include the bigger, more mobile forwards who would run Carlisle, Hooker and Hurley off their legs.

 

[Zach Package]

The only thing I would add further is that there is a very strong correlation between the way we play and the characteristics of the team. We play slow crabby football because it suits a side of average runners with average skills. As the team evolves the style will evolve.

The question is whether we are playing this shit football for the right reasons and I don't think we are.

yeah but we've shown we're capable of better than that, it's not that we can't, it's that we're not for whatever reason

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Personally I reckon Watson and Goddard will still be playing solid footy for 4 more seasons. They do not rely on pace, more their smarts and skills. No need to throw out the bathwater just yet.

 

[BrunoV]

yeah but we've shown we're capable of better than that, it's not that we can't, it's that we're not for whatever reason

It's sustainability of a style that is beyond the players' capabilities.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

It's sustainability of a style that is beyond the players' capabilities.

I disagree it's beyond their capability to sustain it. Right now it's beyond their mental ability to believe they can. I think that can change.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Personally I reckon Watson and Goddard will still be playing solid footy for 4 more seasons. They do not rely on pace, more their smarts and skills. No need to throw out the bathwater just yet.

Happy for Goddard, Watson, Cooney and Stanton to remain as long as they're able and contributing.

Everybody else, on notice.

 

[EBCantona]

We should be challenging this season and next but i doubt we will get close to winning a premiership. We will probably be rebuilding around the time when the expansion teams will dominate.

 

[fishardansin]

The bolded types are what I was referring to I was clumsily trying to include the bigger, more mobile forwards who would run Carlisle, Hooker and Hurley off their legs.

Hurls can run with Gunston and Buddy. You guys are under estimating his mobility.