Hardwick and Clarkson - AFL Legends?

[Tonythetiger]

The Legends category in the AFL Hall of Fame is reserved for those who are deemed to have had a significant impact on the game of Australian rules football.

It's is the that absolute top echelon with 31 legends amongst 400 hall of famers. It is so select that the only two players from recent times that would be consensus locks to get in are Ablett Jnr and Franklin. Guys like Fyfe, Judd, Dusty, et al, are all 100% going in the Hall of Fame but they are all only possibilities.

With Clarkson (4x premiership coach) and Hardwick (2x premiership players, 3 X premiership coach), do their current resumés get them beyond just the Hall of Fame and into the Legends category.

I would say for both it's a maybe, but they probably need to achieve success with their current clubs to tip them over into legendary status. This is not a knock on them, but to speak of them in the same sentence as someone like a Barassi, Blight, Bartlett I suspect they will need to still do a bit more.

 

[Freomaniac]

good question....

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

The Legends category in the AFL Hall of Fame is reserved for those who are deemed to have had a significant impact on the game of Australian rules football.

It's is the that absolute top echelon with 31 legends amongst 400 hall of famers. It is so select that the only two players from recent times that would be consensus locks to get in are Ablett Jnr and Franklin. Guys like Fyfe, Judd, Dusty, et al, are all 100% going in the Hall of Fame but they are all only possibilities.

With Clarkson (4x premiership coach) and Hardwick (2x premiership players, 3 X premiership coach), do their current resumés get them beyond just the Hall of Fame and into the Legends category.

I would say for both it's a maybe, but they probably need to achieve success with their current clubs to tip them over into legendary status. This is not a knock on them, but to speak of them in the same sentence as someone like a Barassi, Blight, Bartlett I suspect they will need to still do a bit more.

Clarkson has too many indiscretions . If Garry Ablett snr can't get in , there is no way Clarkson should.

 

[Shane Heard]

a reminder that Gaz Snr will always have that horrendous incident of the past with the young girl dying of a heroin overdose in his presence in a hotel room.
I don’t think he’ll ever get the award.

Dimmer was a very important cog in the 2000 premiership side with an All Australian jacket that year…Crichton medal winner..port premiership player …3x All Australian coach..coach of the year 2017…and a 3 time premiership coach. 207 games as a player. 300 as coach with RFC.

Pretty good credentials.

Clarkson…I don’t know. He’s had so many incidents that put the game in disrepute I feel it’s a bridge too far.
I don’t think he’ll get that status.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Clarkson doesn't even have a coach of the year award and was an average player at best.

If Hardwick gets a flag at the Suns he should make it. Would be part of 4 premiership eras not counting his time as an assistant coach at Hawthorn.

 

[HolyRioli]

Clarkson doesn't even have a coach of the year award and was an average player at best.

If Hardwick gets a flag at the Suns he should make it. Would be part of 4 premiership eras not counting his time as an assistant coach at Hawthorn.

If Clarkson takes this North rabble from complete basket case to premiers (and in doing so, coach his 5th flag), he'll be right in the conversation for it. Only 4 others with 5 or more in VFL/AFL history, the last of whom was Norm Smith

 

[kreuze_missile]

Clarkson has too many indescretions . If Garry Ablett snr can't get in , there is no way Clarkson should.

That was my first thought about Clarkson too. More likely to get cancelled for things he's previously done rather than recognised as an AFL legend.

Dimma isn't exactly squeaky either clean having dumped his wife for a staffer, and then dumped the Tigers entirely for that gold coast money.

Personally I'd prefer to see the legends status recognise players rather than magnet movers.

 

[NetworkNerd]

That was my first thought about Clarkson too. More likely to get cancelled for things he's previously done rather than recognised as an AFL legend.

Dimma isn't exactly squeaky either clean having dumped his wife for a staffer, and then dumped the Tigers entirely for that gold coast money.

Personally I'd prefer to see the legends status recognise players rather than magnet movers.

Clarkson and Hardwick aren't even on the hall of fame yet.

Once Voss wins the next 5 flags surely he would become a legend?

 

[kreuze_missile]

Clarkson and Hardwick aren't even on the hall of fame yet.

Once Voss wins the next 5 flags surely he would become a legend?

Triple premiership captain and 5 flags as a coach?

GOAT.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I've got to say, that the AFL Hall of Fame thing is honestly in my top 3 things of all time that I have ever cared less about.


But given this is a footy forum where this type of s**t is for some reason important to people, I'll STFU and show myself out of this thread.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Triple premiership captain and 5 flags as a coach?

GOAT.

In that unlikely event, would he top Leigh Matthews?

Leigh considered by many the greatest player of all time (even better than Voss) including 4 flags as a player. As a coach, ended a long premiership drought for the biggest club and then turned a wooden spooner into a triple premiership team.

I reckon Voss might be no 2 even if he took the Blues to multiple flags.

 

[kreuze_missile]

In that unlikely event, would he top Leigh Matthews?

Leigh considered by many the greatest player of all time (even better than Voss) including 4 flags as a player. As a coach, ended a long premiership drought for the biggest club and then turned a wooden spooner into a triple premiership team.

I reckon Voss might be no 2 even if he took the Blues to multiple flags.

Voss carried Matthews to his premierships as coach.

Can’t count them sorry Leigh.

 

[Foucault1989]

In that unlikely event, would he top Leigh Matthews?

Leigh considered by many the greatest player of all time (even better than Voss) including 4 flags as a player. As a coach, ended a long premiership drought for the biggest club and then turned a wooden spooner into a triple premiership team.

I reckon Voss might be no 2 even if he took the Blues to multiple flags.

Having a crack at Voss is just weird.

Champion player. Took over the Brisbane coaching role when he wasn't ready. Went to Port and honed his coaching craft, didn't go into the media or sook it up. Took the Carlton job and to date had been fantastic. You can see his influence in the way we play. Always up front and honest, positive, humble and complementary of the opposition.

Literally just a great football person.

And he has natural, sick guns

 

[Cleansweep17]

Both should on coaching ability/success because let’s face it if they don’t we may not see another coach get in again. Who else has been better than these two this century excl Lethal who’s already a Legend.

I think Hardwick has better chances going in over Clarkson because he has 2 flags as a player as well and doesn’t have major off field issues like Clarkson.

So imo the most likely scenario is Hardwick gets in (without even needing a GC flag) and Clarkson joins the GAS, Carey group of people that would’ve got in if it wasn’t for their off field issues.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Having a crack at Voss is just weird.

Champion player. Took over the Brisbane coaching role when he wasn't ready. Went to Port and honed his coaching craft, didn't go into the media or sook it up. Took the Carlton job and to date had been fantastic. You can see his influence in the way we play. Always up front and honest, positive, humble and complementary of the opposition.

Literally just a great football person.

And he has natural, sick guns

Wait, what?

Who had a crack at Voss? Or even said anything contrary to what you posted? Suggesting someone might be the 2nd greatest football influence ever is not a crack (Barrassi also has big claims and would be hard to top).

 

[Foucault1989]

Wait, what?

Who had a crack at Voss? Or even said anything contrary to what you posted? Suggesting someone might be the 2nd greatest football influence ever is not a crack (Barrassi also has big claims and would be hard to top).

Sorry I was probably directing that to Network Nerd instead of you. Just weird to use this thread to have a niggle at Voss/Carlton.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Voss carried Matthews to his premierships as coach.

Can’t count them sorry Leigh.

Voss was hugely influential, yes. He was also already a Brownlow medallist when they won the spoon and looked terrible before Leigh arrived. Once Leigh was there, they won the flag within 3 years of the spoon, the first of 3 in a row.

Guessing you were being a little facetious anyway (never can be sure on this site) but Leigh was the catalyst for the change in fortunes. Even if we leave his Brisbane record out, I suppose he's just left with the greatest player of all time and premiership coach on his resume.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Sorry I was probably directing that to Network Nerd instead of you. Just weird to use this thread to have a niggle at Voss/Carlton.

All I said was that Voss is already in there and Clarkson/Hardwick aren't. So a few flags at Carlton will push him to legend before the other 2

 

[Mr.X]

They are showing real grit in their current roles, the real test is coaching teams who need to be developed.

They are the elite coaches

 

[BF Tiger]

Neither of them strike me as “Legends”. Just not enough wow about either of them.

 

[Cleansweep17]

All I said was that Voss is already in there and Clarkson/Hardwick aren't. So a few flags at Carlton will push him to legend before the other 2

If you read the eligibility it says people are elevated to Legend status based on how much they influenced the game and their significant player and/or coaching records.

Even if Voss gets 2 Carlton flags I don’t see how he gets in before the other two (ignoring off field issues). To me he hasn’t fulfilled that criteria as good as they have.

Hardwick also has 5 flags. 1 with the unbeatable 2000 bombers, 1 with 04 Port who beat the lions and obviously 3 as coach. Then he was an assistant coach at the Hawks with their flags. Most teams nowadays are still playing and being successful with the chaos style footy we implemented 7/8 years ago. Seems much more of an influence to the game than Voss to me anyway.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Both need to win premierships at a second club to even be considered, in my opinion, especially as neither had what you could call a hall of fame calibre career as a player, compared to McHale, Barassi, Smith, Kennedy etc.

Hardwick in particular has only coached 16 finals games in 15 years. Three flags, sure HOF, why not? But as a Legend? Not even close.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Both need to win premierships at a second club to even be considered, in my opinion, especially as neither had what you could call a hall of fame calibre career as a player, compared to McHale, Barassi, Smith, Kennedy etc.

Hardwick in particular has only coached 16 finals games in 15 years. Three flags, sure HOF, why not? But as a Legend? Not even close.

What about his 2 playing flags mate at 2 different clubs.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

What about his 2 playing flags mate at 2 different clubs.

Meh. A good playing career no doubt (not even in the postcode of the HOF on that front as far as I'm concerned) and a HOF coaching career. Combined, that simply doesn't equal Legend status in my opinion and I wouldn't even have him in the discussion, in all honesty.

He needs to win a premiership at Gold Coast - and probably more than one - to be worthy of consideration.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Meh. A good playing career no doubt (not even in the postcode of the HOF on that front as far as I'm concerned) and a HOF coaching career. Combined, that simply doesn't equal Legend status in my opinion and I wouldn't even have him in the discussion, in all honesty.

He needs to win a premiership at Gold Coast - and probably more than one - to be worthy of consideration.

Ok that’s your view. But that means we’ll never see another 21st century coach elevated to legend status since they need 7+ flags across 4 different clubs (as a player or coach).

Are you sure you aren’t just aren’t saying Hardwick isn’t in the convo because you don’t like Richmond? Your standards seem extremely high.