Hardwick - How long until he's replaced as Richmond's coach

[peppy la pew]

Richmond eating their own is so Richmondy

 

[Tiger2709]

According to your mate Rich01 making finals doesn't matter, it's whether you win a grand final or not. Otherwise you are a s**t coach

So winning a final just doesn't cut it

You can really only judge these things retrospectively, if Dimma was to win a final then he deserves a crack at the next step, if by the end of his career all he did was finish second or third or whatever then he and any coach including Lyon would be considered a failure, not necessarily a s**t coach though, still chance for both of them to turn things around but at this stage neither have achieved the purpose they were hired for.

 

[Tiger2709]

1. Firstly I dont count provincial comp premierships like VFL, SANFL, WAFL
2. Even if you did count provincial comp flags - how old are you? What good are premierships won in the 70s to anyone under the age of 60?

You dont write the rules the AFL count those flags thats all that matters.

 

[sonnywalters]

You dont write the rules the AFL count those flags thats all that matters.

1. The 'rule' on that is meaningless. Absolutely meaningless. It is the people's game and is now a national comp.
Some token gesture to appease old VFL clubs is merely that. A token gesture.

2. Nice deflection though. So you think Hardwick is going ok then? That is the topic here. 166* games without a finals win - which is a VFL and AFL all-time record. Seeing you want to count VFL records and all - I guess you need to count that record right?

3. How old are you?

 

[SdKfz 181]

1. Firstly I dont count provincial comp premierships like VFL, SANFL, WAFL
2. Even if you did count provincial comp flags - how old are you? What good are premierships won in the 70s to anyone under the age of 60?

Like, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.

 

[sonnywalters]

Like, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.

The topic is whether Hardwick can coach.
You are off topic.
The evidence and data all strongly suggests he cant coach.
What exactly are you arguing about?
Dont worry or deflect about other coaches or other clubs.
Do you think Hardwick is a good coach? Yes or No?
If yes - then on what basis do you hold this view?
Just stick to Hardwick.

I think your 'argument' is something like:

• Hardwick is a good coach because other people regarded as good coaches also havent won a flag.

Is that actually your argument? Really?
On that logic then I am also a good coach and so is the granny across the road.
Very poor argument and possibly evidence you are in some kind of brain washed state of denial.

 

[Tiger2709]

1. The 'rule' on that is meaningless. Absolutely meaningless. It is the people's game and is now a national comp.
Some token gesture to appease old VFL clubs is merely that. A token gesture.

2. Nice deflection though. So you think Hardwick is going ok then? That is the topic here. 166* games without a finals win - which is a VFL and AFL all-time record. Seeing you want to count VFL records and all - I guess you need to count that record right?

3. How old are you?

Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.

 

[theyellowsash]

N

Like, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.

Neither club has, but I know I'd much rather have seen stkilda last 35 years than richmonds

 

[sonnywalters]

Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.

Does arguing over the AFL historical composition make you feel better? Is it relevant in any way as to whether or not Hardwick can coach?
I think you are desperately trying to clutch on to some straws. Like a drowning man reaching for a life raft.

 

[peppy la pew]

You can really only judge these things retrospectively, if Dimma was to win a final then he deserves a crack at the next step, if by the end of his career all he did was finish second or third or whatever then he and any coach including Lyon would be considered a failure, not necessarily a s**t coach though, still chance for both of them to turn things around but at this stage neither have achieved the purpose they were hired for.

You should know that making finals is the name of the game, do that and you give yourselves a chance of winning 1 or 2, do that and you are a chance of making the big show, do that etc etc

Comparing Hardwick to Lyon is pure deflection on his part (Rich01), Lyon has given himself and his teams every opportunity to win a flag

If you slam Lyon as a coach because he hasn't won a Grand Final, then simply saying Hardwick should get another contract if he wins a final is rather hypocritical, especially after 8 years of no return.

 

[Tiger2709]

N

Neither club has, but I know I'd much rather have seen stkilda last 35 years than richmonds

Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.
Believe me if you were old enough to know the pain of losing a GF you might have a different view, there is nothing worse in this game.

 

[sonnywalters]

Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.

Q: Can Hardwick coach?

Your Answer: We won a flag in the 1970s!

Not really much of a conversation is it?
Can you see why it is a bit frustrating talking to you?

 

[sonnywalters]

Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.

Mate. Seriously!
The discusison isnt about club history.
It is about Hardwick's current tenure. Here and now. Since 2009/10.
If you want to start a thread on club history and what that means then do it elsewhere.

 

[Kram]

We have been in winning positions in the dying minutes of the last three matches, and should of won all three, lost those three by a total of 10 points. We should be sitting on top of the ladder at 8-1, but no everyone is calling for Hardwicks head(my self included yesterday).

Everyone needs to settle down, we will still make the eight, and Hardwick will be judged on wheather we win a final or not.

But Richmond didn't take these opportunities and blew them under pressure and that's what matters.. This is surely due a lot to poor coaching and poor leadership out on the field.

Also stating that Richmond will make finals is very generous, looking like a 50/50 proposition at best at the moment.

 

[Tiger2709]

Q: Can Hardwick coach?

Your Answer: We won a flag in the 1970s!

Not really much of a conversation is it?
Can you see why it is a bit frustrating talking to you?

Of course Hardwick can coach, whether he can coach well enough to win a flag I dont know, that will be judged at the end of his career, can Richo coach as yet we dont know, my first response was to this post of yours, no mention of Hardwick.

 

[theyellowsash]

Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.
Believe me if you were old enough to know the pain of losing a GF you might have a different view, there is nothing worse in this game.

Being 29 it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[MightyTiger]

That's the issue with Richmond under Hardwick though. His coaching record isn't bad it's just there hasn't been any major success (outside of finishing 5th in 2013) and currently losing matches in such a manner doesn't give a lot of confidence that if Richmond hold a top 8 spot and play finals they would win one under him in what would be his fourth attempt.
Hardwick would be a great assistant coach at any club but as a senior coach if he doesn't get a finals win under his belt this year after eight years as the senior coach that surely has to be it. There is nothing wrong in giving someone else a chance, Bulldogs seemed a long way off when Beveridge was named coach and that worked out very well.

Theres only one club who can claim success at the end of the year, and it's the one holding up the premiership cup.

I don't disagree that there is something fundamentally flawed with this club, we put ourselves in winning positions and just turn off it seems when we get challenged, it happened when Carlton beat us in the Elim final when we were almost 6 goals up in the third quarter, against North in 2015 and in close games this year, but to say the man can't coach is just silly, he has his flaws like all coaches, if he can't fix our current issues in closing out games then he will be moved on.



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[MightyTiger]

So your 60+ then. Good for you.

I'm 29, a bit over a third of my expected lifespan. We last won a flag 37 years ago. Taking into account that you don't fully experience or appreciate things when your young, someone has to be around 45 to have experienced that, or even just experience having made a grand final. That's over half a person's expected lifespan.

Logically, over half of the population has never seen Richmond do anything of note. Take into account the amount of people who die before 85 and the number of people who have Alzheimer's, and the number of people who have seen Richmond be even an acceptable afl club is quickly diminishing.

Harden up princess, I'm 29, haven't seen any success at all, doesn't mean I or anybody else can't acknowledge our clubs rich history in this great sport. History just doesn't start from when we are born.

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[MightyTiger]

Hang on a second, you're saying that Ross Lyon has ruined Fremantle? The same Ross Lyon that room them to their first GF and to 4 finals series in a row? The same guy who has dragged them up the ladder this year?

Must be another person you're talking about then....

And in 20 years time, it will still show Ross Lyon has won the same amount of flags as Hardwick, zero.

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[MightyTiger]

Yeah because winning the same amount if finals as Fitzroy over the last 30 years, microwaving memberships, spitting on your own players and celebrating high membership totals is much better.

Not even mentioning celebrating the big signings of Caddy and Prestia and having the longest EVER serving vfl/afl coach to have not won a final.

But thats ok because your team won premierships way before you were probably born

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Yeah it is ok, when I walk into the ME bank centre, and take a walk past our cabinets that hold all of our premiership cups I can acknowledge and be proud of my clubs great rich history within the game, does it suck that my club hasn't won a premiership in my lifetime yet? Yep sure does, but following a club is more then just acknowledging the present, it's also acknowledging the past.



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[demondavey]

And in 20 years time, it will still show Ross Lyon has won the same amount of flags as Hardwick, zero.

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Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.

 

[MightyTiger]

Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.

History doesn't care about who came in second or third place, he's coaches as many premierships right now as Hardwick, and thats 0.

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[MightyTiger]

Q: Can Hardwick coach?

Your Answer: We won a flag in the 1970s!

Not really much of a conversation is it?
Can you see why it is a bit frustrating talking to you?

Mate, you're the one who brought up our past 30 years in your posts earlier, don't sook when you start getting called out on it.

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[Tiger2709]

You should know that making finals is the name of the game, do that and you give yourselves a chance of winning 1 or 2, do that and you are a chance of making the big show, do that etc etc

Comparing Hardwick to Lyon is pure deflection on his part (Rich01), Lyon has given himself and his teams every opportunity to win a flag

If you slam Lyon as a coach because he hasn't won a Grand Final, then simply saying Hardwick should get another contract if he wins a final is rather hypocritical, especially after 8 years of no return.

Hardwick needs to earn another contract unlike his last extension, Lyon gets some breathing space owing to past performances but as you know at the end of the day only the coaches that win flags get remembered.

 

[Tiger2709]

Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.

Then the same can be said for Hardwick to an extent, he got us to finals we were leading in two of them, was it the coach or the players that lost it at the end of the day, Im no massive fan of Hardwicks last few years but still he did take us back to the finals, something many couldn't do.