Roast Hardwick outcoached again

[WATIGE]

Your one of those idiots that bases his opinion on SFA. You personally have no idea what decisions are or are not made!!!

Just opinions based in nothing! ABSOLUTELY ******* NOTHING.

Spare us all your bullshit

Either Rayzors alter ego/login or just his fanboi !! Wouldn't take too much notice push up.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

We had at least 14 players in our D50 on that last play and everyone of them was either goal side or corridor side of their opponent. The fact is the ball bounced off of Ballantyne onto Jackson and then back into Ballantynes hands. So I wouldn't say it was coaching that cost us, rather the bounce of an oval shaped ball, the same ball that 10 seconds earlier was heading for a behind but bounced the wrong way and hit the post for that throw in.

The thing is if the ball goes through for a behind instead of hitting the post we would have most likely held on to the lead and won the game and this thread wouldn't have been created and a number of posters who are now complaining would probably be celebrating the fact that we were 4-1. Amazing what happens as a result of the bouncing ball.

Go on the herald sun site, watch the stoppage, then watch it again. There are at least 7 tigers between ball and goal. It ricochets off jacksons foot into ballantynes hand and his opponent slips over....
Bounce of the ball, go ask Milne about that in the GF vs the Pies..
Some people in here just have a finger pointing, negative outlook no matter how hard we played.

 

[TigerTime88]

I was dissapointed Hardwick didn't send a hard tag to Hill at the start of the game. When he chopped us up through the middle thought it was even more obvious...so much easy ball for a guy who runs and hits targets with ease.

The other move I would have made was Deledio to CHF as a lead up HF player. Crowley goes with him and we have the advantage if he does lids is off the leash in the forward half.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Amazing what happens as a result of the bouncing ball.

Right, so this didn't happen, RT?:

Even Richo said today the bench was furiously trying to get everyone back but it was the players on the ground who didnt react.

Why did Freo's players KNOW to flood back, while we had a bench 'furiously trying' to get players to react the way they should have been seriously drilled to do in close games. We made a priority of it over the summer.

You've come up with some extremely weak excuses and appallingly revisionist analysis for Hardwick, but pretending things we all saw didn't happen and blaming the ball just about takes the cake.

 

[Bazzar]

Right, so this didn't happen, RT?:



Why did Freo's players KNOW to flood back, while we had a bench 'furiously trying' to get players to react the way they should have been seriously drilled to do in close games. We made a priority of it over the summer.

You've come up with some extremely weak excuses and appallingly revisionist analysis for Hardwick, but pretending things we all saw didn't happen and blaming the ball just about takes the cake.

Freo players flood back because that is the basis of their entire game.

I agree on the priority over summer, but that was the coaching staff doing their job, how much are the players to blame? 100% in my opinion, the directions were coming from the bench via coaches, it was a lack of leadership on the ground that was at fault.

 

[Madison]

Why did Freo's players KNOW to flood back, while we had a bench 'furiously trying' to get players to react the way they should have been seriously drilled to do in close games. We made a priority of it over the summer.

You've come up with some extremely weak excuses and appallingly revisionist analysis for Hardwick, but pretending things we all saw didn't happen and blaming the ball just about takes the cake.

Do you really think that Hardwick, who has played (as a defender) in possibly the most dominant premiership team of our lifetimes, and been an assistant coach for two other premierships and two separate clubs, wouldn't have told the team to get numbers back late in a game if we are in front?

I mean come on, some people on here talk like we have hired netball coaches who don't understand the game. Last night was down to our on field leaders (and just the general playing group) not having the composure and experience to play smart and get back in numbers. Vickery, JR, McGuane etc shouldn't need anyone telling them to drop back into D50 at that point of a game.

Next time you can bet they will.

 

[Bruce Monteath]

Do you really think that Hardwick, who has played (as a defender) in possibly the most dominant premiership team of our lifetimes, and been an assistant coach for two other premierships and two separate clubs, wouldn't have told the team to get numbers back late in a game if we are in front?

I mean come on, some people on here talk like we have hired netball coaches who don't understand the game. Last night was down to our on field leaders (and just the general playing group) not having the composure and experience to play smart and get back in numbers. Vickery, JR, McGuane etc shouldn't need anyone telling them to drop back into D50 at that point of a game.

Next time you can bet they will.

We said that after the Gold Coast game.

 

[Madison]

We said that after the Gold Coast game.

Well it worked all pre season as we won 3 games under a kick and lost one and then won round one under a kick.

So maybe they did fix it up and last night was a relapse? You know, all teams do lose close games. No team wins all of them (even Geelong)

 

[Rayzorwire]

Do you really think that Hardwick, who has played (as a defender) in possibly the most dominant premiership team of our lifetimes, and been an assistant coach for two other premierships and two separate clubs, wouldn't have told the team to get numbers back late in a game if we are in front?

As I've said, you can tell a playing group whatever you like, but if it's repeatedly not getting done then there is clearly a problem with your method of teaching.

 

[t_bond_legend]

So we lose key personnel in Chaplain, Conca, Tuck, Morris and King, who are all best 22, and we go down by 1 point in WA against a Ross Lyon coached team. Yes, it hurts, yes, it's heart wrenching to the very core that we couldn't get the job done. We were brave and valiant and would not wilt in the face of defeat in arguably one of the toughest stadiums to play in against a home side with the crowd well and truly up and about. Although we fell short, this was not a product of Hardwick's 'incapabilities' as a coach. In no way, shape or form. It was a stoppage where the ball bounced more ways than one and in the end, Ballantyne got the chocolates. It takes a while for the message to get down from the coaches' box to the players, but the senior players and leadership group should have and had the urge to either instruct players to get behind the ball or simply do it themselves. This didn't happen.

We lost, but make no mistake in the last 5 years, I haven't seen this sort of fight and determination from such a young and inexperienced group of players. No one gave us a chance over there in Freo.
Let's just hope that this loss echoes on for a while and hurts the players as much as it did us, and that they can find a way to win and win.
Geelong next week, I'm looking forward to the challenge.

 

[Bazzar]

So we lose key personnel in Chaplain, Conca, Tuck, Morris and King, who are all best 22, and we go down by 1 point in WA against a Ross Lyon coached team.

Thats 22.72% of our team. Its a big turnaround.

 

[Madison]

As I've said, you can tell a playing group whatever you like, but if it's repeatedly not getting done then there is clearly a problem with your method of teaching.

I understand where you are coming from, and I actually agree, but not for something this simple. I agree when it comes to things like tackling (which I was critical of after round 1) but getting numbers behind the ball in that situation is such a gimme.

To be fair, Dimma said on mmm today that they had gone man on man to get back in the game, and they players just weren't proactive when we actually hit the front to go away from man on man and flood back. So no doubt it is something that will be worked on.

 

[chrstphrwnstn]

God damn we are quick to eat our own.

What a shit thread.

 

[Bazzar]

A bloke on the radio today banged on about the same question and was a bit cranky, Richo asked him "exactly how was he out coached?" The bloke stumbled and spluttered and coulldnt give a reason except Hardwick has never beat him. I think Richo was a bit annoyed.

And when you think Lyon as a Saints or Freo coach has never beaten the drug cheats, does that mean he is a crap coach?

It never comes as a surprise the overreaction and meltdown by some people after a loss. Predictable and at times amusing.

 

[_Wang_]

God damn we are quick to eat our own.

What a shit thread.

Underrated post

 

[Rayzorwire]

I understand where you are coming from, and I actually agree, but not for something this simple. I agree when it comes to things like tackling...

We must fundamentally disagree on the definition of simple.

Yes, tackling is a 'simple' and fundamental skill in football, but by the same token, nothing could be more 'simple' than making sure the most dangerous opposition forwards have about as much breathing space in the last seconds of a close match as a corpse in a funeral pyre. We blew that one on a whole bunch of unforgiveable, tactical levels.

To be fair, Dimma said on mmm today that they had gone man on man to get back in the game, and they players just weren't proactive when we actually hit the front to go away from man on man and flood back. So no doubt it is something that will be worked on.

To me, going man on man in the last quarter of a slugfest has been dead standard tactics as long as football has existed. If we actually did effectively teach anything in our focus on overcoming close losses, you'd think that developing the ability to transition from man on man, to flooding and defending a lead, would be very high on the priority list of things taught.

Instead we were all at sea tactically and whinging post-game about the umpires or whatever else, in order to distract from the fact that we lost a game that was ours for the taking given some good direction from the box. Most of our players were really gutsy and I was proud of the overall effort, but all that matters in the end is that four points went begging again and we are back amongst the pack when we had a golden chance to be doing so much better.

 

[theflea]

Is that your 20th post in dire defense of Hardwick just tonight, flea? You're busier than your namesake.

Let me ask you a question, mate. When a club loses games it should win too often, does the board sack the players, or the coach? Blame the players as much as you like (quite a few deserved a roast tonight), but it won't help Hardwick when the time comes.

------------------------------------------------

Freo were a tactical rabble under Harvey. People can say what they like about Lyon's style of game or his personality, but his sides are always well drilled and well coached as a result. When they hit the front their forwards ran back into defense and our defenders just looked around at each other like stunned mullets, until Ellis of all players took the initiative and ran forward. Clearly none of the defenders had ever been given any advice about what to do in this situation.

I nearly snorted my nose clean off my face when I was reading comments defending Hardwick's lack of flood, on the basis that it took too long to get a message to the players from the box. Did Ross Lyon's players need a message from the box to flood back, or had they already been well drilled in what to do? Are Freo's - and St. Kilda's for that matter - players really just way more intelligent than ours? I don't believe that for a second.

The real issue is not whether Hardwick taught this or that (many of them things I learned in primary school football), but whether or not it has sunk in. WTF else matters?

The set up on that last defensive play we completely blew IS coaching, it wouldn't happen in a Ross Lyon side, it's been happening to the SAME PLAYERS for years under Hardwick.

I will say one thing for him though, it's good he's finally woken up to playing Jackson as a pure tagger. His shut-down on Fyfe (switching from Mundy, who he started on for some bizarre reason known only to our coaches) from the 2nd quarter onwards was very important to keeping us in the game.

Ultimately, having just lost to two sides who were missing key stars and vulnerable, we've blown a golden opportunity to really set up our season by being 5-0. People can blame all kinds of things for that, but to me, significantly more blame lies with Hardwick than anything else you could point your finger at. We had Freo on the ropes in terms of the personnel they were missing, just like Collingwood last week, but we again lacked the brains in the box to make full use of our advantage.

Hehe is this your 2000th post bagging hardwick?

I do agree that in the end the coach get the chop but many a player have killed a coach and as a tiger fan we have done this more than most. I guess im saying yes ultimately the coaches get the chop but the player get a reprieve form their shiteness and we just shouldn't let them off the hook.

I also disagree at your saying Lyon teams dont allow that as the hawks and the dons got those goals in the last few weeks and i bet they also felt the wrath of the coaches just like our players. The fact is, as you pointed out, our players have brain fades far too often, so i tend to blame the players more than the coaching. I know hardwick can do better but i also think your vastly way too forgiving of the players.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

As I've said, you can tell a playing group whatever you like, but if it's repeatedly not getting done then there is clearly a problem with your method of teaching.

Going by your theory every loss can be attributed to coaching or their teaching methods. Whether it be tackling pressure, flooding back, manning the goal line, etc - If the players aren't doing it, you're telling us it's the coaches fault?

 

[Blueyboy74]

I reckon he can coach in general but a few things concern me. For starters, when both teams have +1 it never suits our fast football and can make defenders lazy too. Was also astounded he let the defenders decide who took Cloke last week. Didn't we recruit Chaplain for that very reason .. to tame the beasts?

 

[Bazzar]

I reckon he can coach in general but a few things concern me. For starters, when both teams have +1 it never suits our fast football and can make defenders lazy too. Was also astounded he let the defenders decide who took Cloke last week. Didn't we recruit Chaplain for that very reason .. to tame the beasts?

Already been established this was a croc and just internet gossip.
Is Hardwick that stupid?

 

[Blueyboy74]

Already been established this was a croc and just internet gossip.
Is Hardwick that stupid?

Wasn't a croc. Cotchin said it on 'On the Couch'

 

[MightyTiger]

What an embarrassing thread.

 

[_RT_]

Right, so this didn't happen, RT?:



Why did Freo's players KNOW to flood back, while we had a bench 'furiously trying' to get players to react the way they should have been seriously drilled to do in close games. We made a priority of it over the summer.

You've come up with some extremely weak excuses and appallingly revisionist analysis for Hardwick, but pretending things we all saw didn't happen and blaming the ball just about takes the cake.

Have you watched the tape yet Ray, I watched it immediately after and as I said we have at least 14 players inside the D50 at that throw in, with all of them either goal side or corridor side of their opponents. Again not sure how much more you would have liked us to do in that situation to ensure the Dockers didn't score.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Heard the Richo interview,Our bench knew exactly what to do,But it seems our fwds didn't,Hmmmmmmmm Jack is in our leadership group,Then i watched the last qtr of the West Coast/Port match and in the 30 secs when West Coast were 5 pts down and surging towards their fwd line who filled the hole and took a mark,none other than their fwd Westoff.I hope Jack was watching.

 

[The full package]

I rate Dimma very highly, most coaches would have lost it in the presser after friday night, I think that is a good reflection of character. The boys will get there eventually.