Roast Hardwick outcoached again

[Bazzar]

lose a game by a point, wait for it OUTCOACHED, c'mon mate you're better than that, i wont deny that he is beyond question but id be looking at the output of two of our top 2 players first before passing blame on the coach, thats just so lame it aint funny

Jon Anderson in the Super Ladder comment box said this-

"Sometimes respect can be earned in defeat. Have a terrific opportunity against the Cats on Saturday night"

 

[CoggaRules]

lose a game by a point, wait for it OUTCOACHED, c'mon mate you're better than that, i wont deny that he is beyond question but id be looking at the output of two of our top 2 players first before passing blame on the coach, thats just so lame it aint funny

BJ, even Lyon, although 4 points is 4 points anyway you get them, but even he thought **** me, we got away with that after the game when interviewed.

 

[cairo tiger]

lose a game by a point, wait for it OUTCOACHED, c'mon mate you're better than that, i wont deny that he is beyond question but id be looking at the output of two of our top 2 players first before passing blame on the coach, thats just so lame it aint funny

look I know dimma cant stand there and tell his players which side to stand on BUT we should be drilled about this at training. we should be drilled to know what to do when, this is what made Hafey and Barrasi great coaches, they drilled until it became 2nd nature to their players and they were ruthless when the players did not respond. It aint funny that we lose the close games, it comes down to players and coach working together, he is in the 4th year of a plan. he has turned over the list and jackson for one should have known where to stand......he is sitting there watching oh maybe I should run now....ffs it is just not good enough.

 

[CoggaRules]

look I know dimma cant stand there and tell his players which side to stand on BUT we should be drilled about this at training. we should be drilled to know what to do when, this is what made Hafey and Barrasi great coaches, they drilled until it became 2nd nature to their players and they were ruthless when the players did not respond. It aint funny that we lose the close games, it comes down to players and coach working together, he is in the 4th year of a plan. he has turned over the list and jackson for one should have known where to stand......he is sitting there watching oh maybe I should run now....ffs it is just not good enough.

and there lies the problem, Jackson was standing where he should have and had it covered and was onto it and for some reason again!!, that stupid brain of his had a second thought. Basically if he goes full throttle when he should have, ball goes either dead or better, rushed through..

I know it is all pie in the ****ing sky now, but the throw in that lead to the next throw in should say it all when it comes to the umps and who they wanted to score..Maric gets taken out by one ruckman the other gets it to the front of the pack where there were 3 freo players waiting, but it rolled to fast and into the post. Maric asks the ump who the ruckman is and then the very next throw in the umps turn a blind eye to the exact same tactic....****ing JOKE!!! Did the ****ing imbecile Giesch give an explanation about that tactic? No, but lets wait and see what happens now, bet you any money we get pinged for third man up, because the ****ing idiot will call the umps in and say, weeeeelllll listen fellas, its not allowed and this week, we need to show that it isnt...like the whole ****ing circus is handled..and this week we will see this rule put to the fore, and next week lets pick this one, just for shits and giggles..FFS...get rid of the c*** asap

 

[_Wang_]

All I can say is god help Dimma if we miss finals this year.. It will be rotation time all over again if fan sentiment is anything to go by..
He has taken us from a rabble with no list to a competitive side so let's get behind him guys..

 

[theflea]

What you and others need to understand is that Port Power is one of the reasons that the line "the eagles are out of form" is being bandied about. Not the only reason, but lets say the Power lost to them by 41 points, would you be saying the eagles are out of form now? As for the other comparison, i.e your suggestion that you could say only a poor team could lose when 41 up, half way through the 3rd, do I need to bring out exhibit A - tigers R1? Yeah they didnt lose, but hey, if you are poor if you lose, then you must be close to poor if you fall over the line by under a goal too.

actually i would still say the eagles are struglling even if they beat port. The difference between this year and last year is massive.

 

[theflea]

Can't agree it was handed on a platter Cogga. Just reviewed the replay and it was just pure luck that that ball landed in Balantynes hands. Yes he was in the right position to allow it to happen but he was also one of 5 fumbles/knock ons that occured. If he had taken possesion he would have been tackled by Houli who was in perfect position. The ball then falls into a pack of players running out from goal and bounces off a bunch of them before falling into turds hands as players crash Houli knocking him out of tackle position. Turd has one chance to kick the ball and takes it and it goes through well over head high - anyone standing on the goal line would have watched the ball sail over their head and it would have been argued why they weren't out trying to kill the ball. Want to blame anyone - then blame Maric for not getting the tap to our advantage, beyond that it was just the way the game falls occaisionally. Can someone tell me where to find the i50 stats for that last qtr - must be heavily in our favour - if so it says we actually did a fiar job of trying to close out the game - which was the feeling at the ground and hence such a bitter pill.

And that forward line was loaded - as _RT_ has been saying. The bench calls for players to flood occured well before the goal was scored - by the time it was scored they had. The only thing that I querry is why the goal front "hole" was there - but put a player there and then there would have been a docker free elsewhere near the pack which could have opened play up in a different direction.

As for the couple of biased lets stir up Richmond shit negative reviews of the play on media I have seen - what more could you expect - and review those reviews and you will see they could all be interpreted totally differently if you wanted to (and as some on here are falling for, intentionally siding with).

I also reckon that jacko was afraid to dive on that ball as he was afraid of giving a contact below the knees free.

 

[CoggaRules]

I also reckon that jacko was afraid to dive on that ball as he was afraid of giving a contact below the knees free.

All i know is he didnt have to dive, he had the whole thing lined up from the side and all he had to do was go, his momentum would have got it to the goal line for a behind at worst..he didnt Ballantyne did and game over!!

And that is why we lose these close games. Leaders instinctively do what has to be done in such situations, its do or die, not watch and die..

 

[theflea]

All i know is he didnt have to dive, he had the whole thing lined up from the side and all he had to do was go, his momentum would have got it to the goal line for a behind at worst..he didnt Ballantyne did and game over!!

From what i remember the ball was near jacko's feet but to the right side with balla coming straight on with the ball directly in front of him. if jacko had just dived on the ball it would've been right at the time balla had arrived at the contest and balla couldve gone right over him at pace. The ump should pay that in the back but this year they could pay it as contact below the knees.

Maybe.

 

[CoggaRules]

From what i remember the ball was near jacko's feet but to the right side with balla coming straight on with the ball directly in front of him. if jacko had just dived on the ball it would've been right at the time balla had arrived at the contest and balla couldve gone right over him at pace. The ump should pay that in the back but this year they could pay it as contact below the knees.

Maybe.

Nope, sorry man, watch it again, it was waste high and jacko didnt have to dive, if Jacko doesnt hesitate he basically gets to the ball first..Ballantyne gets it at waste height...anyway its done and dusted now..wrong dude in the wrong place. Tipping Cotch or Morris would not have died wondering..Bad luck..we move on now.

 

[theflea]

Nope, sorry man, watch it again, it was waste high and jacko didnt have to dive, if Jacko doesnt hesitate he basically gets to the ball first..Ballantyne gets it at waste height...anyway its done and dusted now..wrong dude in the wrong place. Tipping Cotch or Morris would not have died wondering..Bad luck..we move on now.

i have to look at it again then. I'll get back to you on that 1.

edit: yes mate your right the ball was around waist height and it looked to me he hesitated then tried to go again at the ball but i dont know why he did that.

 

[WATIGE]

CoggaRules , theflea - Each way call on Jackson - in slow mo it certainly looks like Jacko hesitates but at normal speed it was just very rapid and I don't think Jacko actually thinks that fast. A better ball reader in Jacko's place could very well have got there before the turd but we'll never know.

and yes Bird Man - there were three men up at both contests prior to the goal.

 

[Bojangles17]

A the end of the day the game was decided by the ball zigging rather than zagging....for those that are having a free kick at our setup for that last throw in, freeze frame it, we were man on man and to a player we were goal side ....only thing absent was more numbers around the contest and filling the hole. No ne there could have filled the hole without leaving their opponent. Hate to let the facts get in the way of a good story

 

[_RT_]

A the end of the day the game was decided by the ball zigging rather than zagging....for those that are having a free kick at our setup for that last throw in, freeze frame it, we were man on man and to a player we were goal side ....only thing absent was more numbers around the contest and filling the hole. No ne there could have filled the hole without leaving their opponent. Hate to let the facts get in the way of a good story

Well said Bo but unfortunately it's not going to change the opinions of those who have an agenda in proving that Hardwick is no good.

 

[Goldust]

FOR the record, what is the ruling on having a third man up at the bounce or throw in? I thought it was not allowed!

 

[DrMike]

9 teams lost on the weekend, weren't they all outcoached?

 

[_RT_]

FOR the record, what is the ruling on having a third man up at the bounce or throw in? I thought it was not allowed!

You can go 3rd man up, you just can't be standing within 1m of the contest before the ball is thrown up/in.

 

[Tigerland]

AFL insider reviewed the last 2 minutes of the Freo game with Richmond 5 points up.

It was a blatant and honest assessment. The behind the goals camera was jaw dropping as to how we set up our defence.

As I have said previously, either our players are not well drilled enough or they are not drilled at all.

Either way it goes back to our Coach who is ultimately responsible.

I suggest you try and watch it.

 

[Bazzar]

AFL insider reviewed the last 2 minutes of the Freo game with Richmond 5 points up.

It was a blatant and honest assessment. The behind the goals camera was jaw dropping as to how we set up our defence.

As I have said previously, either our players are not well drilled enough or they are not drilled at all.

Either way it goes back to our Coach who is ultimately responsible.

I suggest you try and watch it.

Which coach?

Hardwick?
Smith?
Leppa?

 

[_RT_]

AFL insider reviewed the last 2 minutes of the Freo game with Richmond 5 points up.

It was a blatant and honest assessment. The behind the goals camera was jaw dropping as to how we set up our defence.

As I have said previously, either our players are not well drilled enough or they are not drilled at all.

Either way it goes back to our Coach who is ultimately responsible.

I suggest you try and watch it.

You mean to say that having every player standing next to(those near the stoppage) or within sight of their opponent(those out near the 50) is wrong. Yes it was a mistake to leave the space at the top of the square open, but if we guard that we leave an opponent or 2-3 free to run onto the ball. Perhaps posters would have just preferred that to happen instead.

 

[Tigerland]

Which coach?

Hardwick?
Smith?
Leppa?

The head coach who's responsible for all the coaches and what the players are taught to do in certain situations.

You're not suggesting that Dimma doesn't know what the defensive coaches are teaching the players to do are you?

 

[Tigerland]

You mean to say that having every player standing next to(those near the stoppage) or within sight of their opponent(those out near the 50) is wrong. Yes it was a mistake to leave the space at the top of the square open, but if we guard that we leave an opponent or 2-3 free to run onto the ball. Perhaps posters would have just preferred that to happen instead.

Well a panel of King, Dunstall and Eade were all amazed at the setup.
They were (and I agree) far more critical of the setup after White kicked a goal, 5 points up 2 minutes to go. That was damming.

The goal square setup where Ballantyne kicked the goal was talked about, they were less critical but thought we stuffed that up as well.

It's the setup after the goal that was a mistake a 3rd year coach should not be making. He's had 3 years to teach the players what to do in that situation. It was a massive mistake.

 

[Benji McPherson]

Hardwick is a man who has played and won finals when it counts. He is a good coach and Richmond's current gameplan is sound.

Ross Lyon is an overrated hack who coaches Home&Away champions and finals failures.

Ross took the second most talented list of the 2000s and failed at the final hurdle three times. When he finally departed he left a club with no future and no soul.

Let Freo enjoy their high ladder position, and then laugh at them as they trudge off the field losers in September.

 

[MightyTiger]

We lost, get over it, move on to next week and get behind the boys and the club at the G, they need our support and hopefully the sound of 50k+ supporters is enough to get us over the line!

 

[Rayzorwire]

If that's wrong then everything I learnt and did over a 20 year career is wrong.

Yep, you're wrong.

Doesn't matter whether it's soccer, or basketball, or hockey, a fundamental defensive rule of ANY game with goals is that you don't leave a corridor open between the contest and the goal mouth when the opposition is within striking range. It goes triple for AFL when the whole game gets stopped. Ballantyne runs in a virtually straight line, through a corridor we left open, the ball gets hit straight down the corridor by Freo outsmarting us at the ruck contest, game over.

Blaming the shape of the ball or bad luck or whatever is just rubbish - we allowed such a wide open, dangerous corridor to exist, we paid the price.

Any side defensively coached as you've suggested would get taken to the cleaners in higher level football (no offense intended) at every single defensive stoppage they didn't win. If every defender just guards their opponent with no regard for space, then the players can be effectively led by the nose by their opponent and the forwards will just create corridors to goal each set-up and stroll down them the way Ballantyne did.

1.24 So all the Freo players were calling their teammates back...

Me, the media and everybody else is talking about the difference in set-ups when both sides went back to the centre square. You're talking about open space play which came well after. Deliberately avoiding what everyone else is arguing, because you can't defend it.

Actually it is pretty much just you and 1-2 others that are seeing things that aren't there and things that are there are blown out of proportion and then somehow become the coaches fault.

Sure, I imagined the 20+ posts I've read since Friday night where people have mentioned becoming resigned to the fact that Hardwick lacks tactical nouse and the match-day talent as a coach to turn games our way from the box.

Rayzorwire - I refer you to the link in post #188 - please tell me how we have achieved that while being so incompetetently coached and totally useless at stoppage football?

What exactly has that got to do with the incidents in question? Nothing?

Also in that game time timeline you post you don't call on actual elapsed time. After Richo's call there were two complete stoppages...

The issue on players being far too slow to react relates to the difference in each side's defensive structure at the centre bounces, not the Ballantyne goal, that's a defensive structural error which happened once the players finally got there.

Could it be any more clear? Have you watched any of the analysis about it?

It's time you stopped pretending it is only a flesh wound.

Right...a whole bunch of commentators and analysts have made exactly the same arguments I have, but we're all wrong and you, RT, and probably a couple of our other resident Hardwick buffers, are right. You're not quite sure which incident everybody else is talking about, but don't let that stop you convincing yourself you're winning the debate.

Well a panel of King, Dunstall and Eade were all amazed at the setup.
They were (and I agree) far more critical of the setup after White kicked a goal, 5 points up 2 minutes to go. That was damming.

The goal square setup where Ballantyne kicked the goal was talked about, they were less critical but thought we stuffed that up as well.

It's the setup after the goal that was a mistake a 3rd year coach should not be making. He's had 3 years to teach the players what to do in that situation. It was a massive mistake.

No doubt about it, Tigerland, anyone not wearing rose coloured glasses with half a clue about football can see we blew it.