Hardwick v Brad Scott

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Thread starter #1
It's pretty obvious now why the Roos hired Scott. He went into his interviews with them talking about finals http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/95576/default.aspx

while Hardwick would have talked about building from the ground up.

Thank god we landed Hardwick. While the Roos have 4 wins this season they are being belted every second week and will finish neither here nor there this year. I'm tipping they are on track for a few years of 9-14 finishes and will end up being a mediocre football club for sometime to come due to Scotts strategies.

I would rather have 1 win for the season than follow a club with North Melbourne's direction.

Let's hope Dimma/CC/March/Gale can stick to this 'blueprint' and not take any short cuts. I would prefer CC and March to pull their heads in and talk about backing in our system, our blueprint and our coaches/players rather than talk about raiding other clubs. FFS show some faith in Dimma and the players.
 

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amcre

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#2
Agree 100%. Finishing 9-13 is the worst possible postion ecspecially this year. You don't get top 3 picks or in this years case top 10 and you are not good enough to make the finals. We did this for years and hence why we struggled.

North might have 4 wins but they are a very average football side. They have copped a few beltings and although we have as well most of our have been 40-50 pts not 100pts bar Geelong.

They did draft well last year though so they may be ok, but even if the kids they got last year like Black come through and Tarrant from a few years ago, they are not going to collect the talent to go top 4 within the next 5 years which is really the goal. There best midfielder is still Brent Harvey...
 

James_Best

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#3
scott has a bit of terry wallace about him - 2005 - going out there beating the really crap teams then 100 point drubbings against the real teams.

while the hawks 05 won less games, but they were building a premiership team from the ground up ala hardwick this year.

time will tell.

but I think weve finally made the right decision. :thumbsu:
 

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#4
They remind me of Richmond in 2006.

Show signs one week to bring up the spirits and then get utterly smashed and their list, while having some decent young midfielders and rucks is going to crash and burn if they can't start to find youngsters to play forward and back, which I simply don't see coming.

They need to draft tall this year as all they have is Tarrant and O'Keefe that show anything to be future KPPs (I'm not convinced that Hansen will ever be anything but a tall flanker) and those aging talls can't last forever.

I don't think Scott as a coach is the worry if he cleans out the rubbish at the end of this year like Josh Smith, Nathan Grima, Matt Campbell, Alan Obst, Aaron Edwards, Leigh Harding, Corey Jones and Daniel Pratt, who have nothing that will make up a future competitive team (and Harvey and Rawlings who would be close to retiring), he is kidding himself.

Their kids are okay, but North are yet to hit rock bottom. We'll see where North is truly headed under Scott at the end of this year because they need to clean 10 players minimum off their list who are list cloggers. But yeah, after all that rambling, to the point, North are not a finals team and they aren't heading there any time soon.
 

Bazzar

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#5
Let's hope Dimma/CC/March/Gale can stick to this 'blueprint' and not take any short cuts. I would prefer CC and March to pull their heads in and talk about backing in our system, our blueprint and our coaches/players rather than talk about raiding other clubs. FFS show some faith in Dimma and the players.
Seems a few are saying that same thing on this forum.
I cant see how their can be a division in the direction we are already taking. I would be 100% positive that the aggressive draft/trading talk IS part of the initial blueprint, and for some reason people here have it in their heads that our rebuild only includes "drafting kids, kids and more kids" and anything else is an evil shortcut.
 

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#6
Show signs one week to bring up the spirits and then get utterly smashed and their list, while having some decent young midfielders and rucks is going to crash and burn if they can't start to find youngsters to play forward and back, which I simply don't see coming.
Firstly, Rawlings is the oldest defender we have and he's 28. And top 10 in the comp for disposals as a stopping BP. Thompson is 23, Grima 24.

They need to draft tall this year as all they have is Tarrant and O'Keefe that show anything to be future KPPs (I'm not convinced that Hansen will ever be anything but a tall flanker) and those aging talls can't last forever.
Hansen is in the top bracket of players in the comp for contested marks, equal second for marks from opposing kicks. He has lost his position once this year. He's 21 and 197cm's.

Petrie is our best tall, and he's 27 and will probably end the year playing one game.

Their kids are okay, but North are yet to hit rock bottom. We'll see where North is truly headed under Scott at the end of this year because they need to clean 10 players minimum off their list who are list cloggers. But yeah, after all that rambling, to the point, North are not a finals team and they aren't heading there any time soon.
North will field a side 2 months younger than Richmond this week and are a good chance to go 5-6, possibly 4 games ahead of Richmond before the halfway point.

Re Scott talking finals, surely that everyone expects their coach to think the same way? If he was saying that AND playing late 20's blokes who are no good, plugging holes and trying to sneak into 8th spot then criticism would be valid, but anyone looking at the sides we're naming and the roles they're being given would agree that he is doing the development thing but not using it as a crutch.
 

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#7
Firstly, Rawlings is the oldest defender we have and he's 28. And top 10 in the comp for disposals as a stopping BP. Thompson is 23, Grima 24.



Hansen is in the top bracket of players in the comp for contested marks, equal second for marks from opposing kicks. He has lost his position once this year. He's 21 and 197cm's.

Petrie is our best tall, and he's 27 and will probably end the year playing one game.



North will field a side 2 months younger than Richmond this week and are a good chance to go 5-6, possibly 4 games ahead of Richmond before the halfway point.

Re Scott talking finals, surely that everyone expects their coach to think the same way? If he was saying that AND playing late 20's blokes who are no good, plugging holes and trying to sneak into 8th spot then criticism would be valid, but anyone looking at the sides we're naming and the roles they're being given would agree that he is doing the development thing but not using it as a crutch.
who ****ing cares what the roos are doing or going to do dude? There are about 2 and a dog that care and they are your supporter base. They will be handing out free passes to your games soon to get some kind of number to the games. Watching one of your games on the box is like watching a sheffield shield game at the G on a wednesday. ;)
 

Morro

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#8
Seems a few are saying that same thing on this forum.
I cant see how their can be a division in the direction we are already taking. I would be 100% positive that the aggressive draft/trading talk IS part of the initial blueprint, and for some reason people here have it in their heads that our rebuild only includes "drafting kids, kids and more kids" and anything else is an evil shortcut.
I was thinking the same thing Bazza.

U can bet your left nut that this was part of hardwicks initial plan. Why wouldnt it be?

Proven young players from opposition teams are less risky than draft picks in most cases. Hardwick has said we wont take shortcuts but also as many forget, he hasnt put a time frame on anything.

Whose to know if he sees finals in 2, 3, 4 or even 5 years as part of his plan.

get the best kids you can to the club using any means possible, draft, trade, pilfer, raid, lie, whatever it takes!
 

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#9
Firstly, Rawlings is the oldest defender we have and he's 28. And top 10 in the comp for disposals as a stopping BP. Thompson is 23, Grima 24.


Hansen is in the top bracket of players in the comp for contested marks, equal second for marks from opposing kicks. He has lost his position once this year. He's 21 and 197cm's.

Petrie is our best tall, and he's 27 and will probably end the year playing one game.


North will field a side 2 months younger than Richmond this week and are a good chance to go 5-6, possibly 4 games ahead of Richmond before the halfway point.

Re Scott talking finals, surely that everyone expects their coach to think the same way? If he was saying that AND playing late 20's blokes who are no good, plugging holes and trying to sneak into 8th spot then criticism would be valid, but anyone looking at the sides we're naming and the roles they're being given would agree that he is doing the development thing but not using it as a crutch.


All fair calls except I disagree on Grima who I don't think has it. Yes Petrie is your best tall and 27 so how much longer does he have considering the good young midfielders are still building and will be for a couple of years?

But those players I named, you must admit most don't have a future in a future competitive North team and should be moved on at the end of the year?

And that you need KPP players drafted more than any other positions?

And what position is Hansen playing exactly, third tall defender? I just haven't seen proof he'll be a KPP. He'll be a best 22 playerin a decent side but as far as KPPs go, he doesnt appear that kind of player and more a rebounding tall flanker or loose defender that helps out a Scott Thompson or Firrito. Wasn't trying to say he is no good but more that it further thins out future young KPPs on your list you can look forward to.

Not sure you will be younger than us but would be almost the same but that's not the point, the point for the future I don't think North have the amount of KPPs needed to build a team around.

But that isn't a problem with Brad Scott like the OP suggests, that's just a problem with the list he can fix if he shares my view at all, which he might not.
 
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Thread starter #11
Seems a few are saying that same thing on this forum.
I cant see how their can be a division in the direction we are already taking. I would be 100% positive that the aggressive draft/trading talk IS part of the initial blueprint, and for some reason people here have it in their heads that our rebuild only includes "drafting kids, kids and more kids" and anything else is an evil shortcut.
It's true. I am reluctant to trade. While trading could be an effective strategy this year with predicted increased movement of players and picks my preference is to trade players out for picks or players for players such as the Shulz for Farmer trade.

While Vespremi could potentially be a massive upgrade on Matt White I don't think he will come at a reasonable price. Likewise Boak for pick 4 is probably reasonable but getting in a player like Boak could mean we shoot up the ladder a little which would mean even further restricted access to future talent. Not to mention the fact that Essendon and Geelong will be all over him so a player such as Boak would come at a massive premium.

I just don't see why we wouldn't keep playing our young side and take advantage of the fact that with that we will most likely be rewarded with a couple of very good players in the upcoming 2/3 drafts.

Personally I think we will be better off looking to trade in stars in a year or 2 when we are a more attractive proposition. New facilities and a host of young quality players who have already begun to take the RFC on an upwards curve.
 

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Thread starter #13
Why compare? We won't know anything for years.
Just pointing it out because the Roos seem to be going down a path we have too often taken and it's a relief to be heading in another direction. I believe that they are and will vindicate the clubs current direction and I was trying to make the point that winning a handful of games isn't always beneficial as I don't think the Roos will be that much better off come season end. This however is fairly subjective as as you point out we most likely wont be able to judge for years. However by drawing comparisons between Scott (Wallace) and Hardwick (Clarkson) and their respective teams fortunes over the last 6 years I think the signs are more positive for us than North.
 

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#14
[


North will field a side 2 months younger than Richmond this week and are a good chance to go 5-6, possibly 4 games ahead of Richmond before the halfway point.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Even with Simmonds farewell match (leaving us with one player over 30 years of age), our 22 players average 23, compared to your 23.18. Source? AFL website.

Even funnier is the comment that you are a good chance to go 5-6! Keep dreamin!
 
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Thread starter #15
[


North will field a side 2 months younger than Richmond this week and are a good chance to go 5-6, possibly 4 games ahead of Richmond before the halfway point.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Even with Simmonds farewell match (leaving us with one player over 30 years of age), our 22 players average 23, compared to your 23.18. Source? AFL website.

Even funnier is the comment that you are a good chance to go 5-6! Keep dreamin!
And even if you do go 5 and 6 you are about as far off winning a flag as Papua New Guinea is establishing a Space program.
 

thecotch

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#16
Everytime brad scott speaks he looks like he's about to cry. Don't blame him with the level of support and financial issues the roos constantly battle.
 

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#17
Pointless thread as both clubs got the men they were after. FYI, North does have some talent coming through, list is not a train wreck as some people think.
:thumbsu:Excellent call.
Look, I love the fact we got Hardwick .. was the guy I wanted all along once applications were called.
Impresses me greatly and think what he's done has taken a lot of guts, but also a lot of nous. face it, the clean out we undertook was long overdue and he'll suffer in terms of win-loss record first up.
But I think a lot of people on here seriously undervalue Brad Scott. Done an excellent job, with a list that is 'fair' and like hardwick is passionate, strong and appears to do and say the right things. Make no mistake, the Roos wanted Scott, just as we wanted Hardwick.
Scott is inbetween a rock and hard place fellas ... Richmond could afford to bottom out and gut its lose and go through another year or two of pain and poor results. North melbourne simply can't do that. They get four fifths of f*** all to games now ... completely gutting their list and starting over as we have will bring two to three years of very poor results, which they can't afford membership-wise and overall financially.
Our supporter base - while sleeping - counts for plenty!
 

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#18
I disagree with some of the comments. Hansen will be a KPD for sure.

They do have alot of young talent and really cleaned up last draft with there first 3 picks. What I think though is thye do need 2 more lean years where they will get low picks like we are currently accruing and MFC and Carlton did if they want to be really good side instead of just a decent filling up the 8 finals side in a few years.
 

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I think North are on the right track. Have some quality youth coming through and haven't completely bottomed out to do so. Have finished middle of the road for quite a while now and have done extra well with the recruiting to put a young, developing list on the park.
I don't care much for North as I don't care much for any other side. But I don't think they are the basketcase that some on this thread reckon.
 

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#20
Brad Scott has one thing that Hardwick doesn't.
He has his cousin Suzi Olsen aka clarkson2scott to assist with his gameplan, a gameplan which he tested on her before using it on the kangaroos which saw her goal umpire 3 GF last year.
 

GhostofJimJess

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#22
Both teams have about a 1 in 50 chance of winning a Flag in the next 5 years, and about a 1 in 10 chance over the next 10 years.

It's just that there'll be a lot more interested people there to enjoy any Richmond win.
 

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#23
brad scott sux, prob my most hated coach, north under performed last year and are a better list than what alot of ppl think, he will try and take all the credit for the work laidley did...

scott says the same crap every week and hes sooo boring to watch, i hope he fails bad!
 

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#24
the reality with Brad scott right now is he actually thinks he has a pretty good side that should be competing finals right now...pretty wet behind the ears TBH to maintain that view considering where theyve come from and where they are relative to the contenders...I do reckon he is an outstanding young man and will grow into the role...he has a never say die attituade which prob makes it fdifficuolt for him to concede a year to development, he'll learn
 
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