Mega Thread Hardwick Vent Thread

[Bird Man]

Any one else getting sick of the empty promises ?

We will make a statement ...

Going come running home...

Selling home games is beneficial to us ...

We have a good young team ... So dose freo and west coast

..........

Reminder to every one we lost to The Suns and Port .... Yeahhh good stament RFC

 

[tigs2010]

You do realise we dont have a Cox, Embley, Kerr, Glass, Priddis leading the way?
Or a Pavlich, McPharlin, Sandilands. Take note Freo are awful without Sandilands and even with him RICHMOND WON!!

 

[tugga]

All falls silent after a win.
I thought the coaching panel did well yesterday from selecting the team through to the match-ups.
Our structure seemed much better with Houli having a lot of space to work in.
I will also give credit to Tuck and Thursfield for doing thier jobs very well and providing some experience. Dropping McGuane made a huge positive difference to our defensive structure.
Tuck's last two weeks have been very good I must say.

 

[wart101]

hardwick knows what he is doing, still got some things to learn IMO but with time that will come and besides all that.................

he has to deal with a shit backline at the moment, good coach or bad coach if you have shit players there's nothing you can do about it, except at the draft, i would expect him to be trying to fix some of the massive oversized holes we have down back......................

 

[wart101]

Thread closed!

 

[tigerdan]

All I want to say is the two players who were obviously out of favour for most of the year (Tuck and Thursfield) have been playing good footy lately.

With hindsight I think it was a mistake to keep them out of the side so long.

 

[MightyTiger]

All I want to say is the two players who were obviously out of favour for most of the year (Tuck and Thursfield) have been playing good footy lately.

With hindsight I think it was a mistake to keep them out of the side so long.

And what if the reason for there good form of late is because they were perhaps told there careers weren't secure at the club for the long term?

And FYI Thursfield was out for injury for pretty much the first half of the year, only problem was that we never really had the chance to get all of our best defenders out on the ground all at once.

Moore goes out with a LTI after just 1 game in the NAB cup.

In round 1 we played Astbury (Loose man), Rance and McGuane as our KPP talls, Rance gets suspended first round so we go in 1 defender short.

Thursfield still out injured and Gourdis not doing much in the VFL at the time.

Round 2 we go in with Astbury and McGuane as our KPDs and we then lose McGuane to suspension.

We then go into Round 3 against Hawthorn with only 2 fit KPDs in Astbury and Grimes with Grimes coming in for his second game of his career, they both do quite good jobs given the circumstances.

Round 4 Thursfield is fit and we bring him in against Collingwood.

Unfortunately for the team Astbury looked like he had lost a lot of confidence having to play in a KP post at FB at such a young age and it took it's toll.

Astbury goes back to Coburg and we eventually get a backline in that was functioning ok in Grimes, Rance and McGuane.

Pretty sure Thursfield goes out with an injury at some point as well.

Ideally I think we would prefer to go in with Rance FB Astbury CHB and Grimes third tall with Thursfield/Moore (When Fit) as the older experienced heads down back with Dea (Who was ear marked to play Round 1 but was struck down by injury) and Batchelor on either side of the flanks.

Hindsight and a bit of luck would probably have Thursfield in instead of McGuane and Moore/Dea playing out the full season.

My ideal back 6 would be something like this.

FB: Newman Rance Grimes
CHB: Batchelor Astbury Moore

With Dea on the bench.

The Tuck situation is totally different, we didn't have any serious injury concerns with our midfield at the time nor was it not functioning properly for it to warrant Tuck for a call up.

Hindsight I would have of Tuck in and Jackson out for the majority of the year, however Tuck can not do certain things such as run with roles like Jackson can.

Either way at some point we have to let these highly deficient players go and we have to see if our younger kids have got what it takes, I have no doubt in my mind that the club planned on having Tuck come in some way during the half way mark of the year to provide a chop out for the younger ones but at the time we were still playing some good footy and our midfield was the least of our issues at the time.

I think people only got upset once they saw Hislop getting games in front of Tuck, I personally had no issue with that as we know we can rely on Tuck for a 30 possession game with 5 or so clearances, only problem is Hislop was in some ripping form for Coburg and I have a feeling they wanted to see if that could translate into AFL form.

 

[Mr Magic]

And what if the reason for there good form of late is because they were perhaps told there careers weren't secure at the club for the long term?

And FYI Thursfield was out for injury for pretty much the first half of the year, only problem was that we never really had the chance to get all of our best defenders out on the ground all at once.

Moore goes out with a LTI after just 1 game in the NAB cup.

In round 1 we played Astbury (Loose man), Rance and McGuane as our KPP talls, Rance gets suspended first round so we go in 1 defender short.

Thursfield still out injured and Gourdis not doing much in the VFL at the time.

Round 2 we go in with Astbury and McGuane as our KPDs and we then lose McGuane to suspension.

We then go into Round 3 against Hawthorn with only 2 fit KPDs in Astbury and Grimes with Grimes coming in for his second game of his career, they both do quite good jobs given the circumstances.

Round 4 Thursfield is fit and we bring him in against Collingwood.

Unfortunately for the team Astbury looked like he had lost a lot of confidence having to play in a KP post at FB at such a young age and it took it's toll.

Astbury goes back to Coburg and we eventually get a backline in that was functioning ok in Grimes, Rance and McGuane.

Pretty sure Thursfield goes out with an injury at some point as well.

Ideally I think we would prefer to go in with Rance FB Astbury CHB and Grimes third tall with Thursfield/Moore (When Fit) as the older experienced heads down back with Dea (Who was ear marked to play Round 1 but was struck down by injury) and Batchelor on either side of the flanks.

Hindsight and a bit of luck would probably have Thursfield in instead of McGuane and Moore/Dea playing out the full season.

My ideal back 6 would be something like this.

FB: Newman Rance Grimes
CHB: Batchelor Astbury Moore

With Dea on the bench.

The Tuck situation is totally different, we didn't have any serious injury concerns with our midfield at the time nor was it not functioning properly for it to warrant Tuck for a call up.

Hindsight I would have of Tuck in and Jackson out for the majority of the year, however Tuck can not do certain things such as run with roles like Jackson can.

Either way at some point we have to let these highly deficient players go and we have to see if our younger kids have got what it takes, I have no doubt in my mind that the club planned on having Tuck come in some way during the half way mark of the year to provide a chop out for the younger ones but at the time we were still playing some good footy and our midfield was the least of our issues at the time.

I think people only got upset once they saw Hislop getting games in front of Tuck, I personally had no issue with that as we know we can rely on Tuck for a 30 possession game with 5 or so clearances, only problem is Hislop was in some ripping form for Coburg and I have a feeling they wanted to see if that could translate into AFL form.

The big question marks are Astbury/Moore/Newman and Dea in 5 years time in our premiership window not mentioning any possible injuries.

Generally I agree though with the backline

 

[tigerdan]

And what if the reason for there good form of late is because they were perhaps told there careers weren't secure at the club for the long term?

<snip>

I agree with your points. I just think Tuck in particular would have been wondering what else he had to do in order to get a game. He was playing well in the twos and people were regularly calling for him to get a game.

Thursfield, I can't really remember but I think you are right about him getting injured early.

We'll never really know the resoning for keeping them out of the side but they both seemed to be 'on the outer'. Like I said, with hindsight it seems like a mistake.

 

[AstroboyUK]

<snip>

I agree with your points. I just think Tuck in particular would have been wondering what else he had to do in order to get a game. He was playing well in the twos and people were regularly calling for him to get a game.

Thursfield, I can't really remember but I think you are right about him getting injured early.

We'll never really know the resoning for keeping them out of the side but they both seemed to be 'on the outer'. Like I said, with hindsight it seems like a mistake.

To be fair, Im pretty certain Tuck understands exactly why he wasnt getting a (on merit deserved) gig- as Hardwick had explained how it would work for him this year before the season. It wasnt accident, or oversight or being on the outer... it was because there's a development plan in mind and unfortunately Tucky was an excellent square peg for a crappy round hole. Really bad luck for Tuck, and bad for on-field team performance here and there, but thats the call that was taken by the men in charge. To Tuck's credit he seems to have sucked it up pretty well and got on with it. He didnt fall away at all. Cant help but admire him in that regard.

 

[tigs2010]

To be fair, Im pretty certain Tuck understands exactly why he wasnt getting a (on merit deserved) gig- as Hardwick had explained how it would work for him this year before the season. It wasnt accident, or oversight or being on the outer... it was because there's a development plan in mind and unfortunately Tucky was an excellent square peg for a crappy round hole. Really bad luck for Tuck, and bad for on-field team performance here and there, but thats the call that was taken by the men in charge. To Tuck's credit he seems to have sucked it up pretty well and got on with it. He didnt fall away at all. Cant help but admire him in that regard.

Yep he could have sooked it and then we would have ended up like Port Adelaide. Disharmony everywhere. 100 point floggings on a weekly basis.

 

[tiggywigs]

I accept that Dimma made his team selection strategy at the start of the season (good for all sorts of management reasons) and then decided to hang tough when things didn't go our way with injuries and form. (Sticking with core principles is also good leadership.) However, he was just a little bit slow to bring Tuck back into the side IMO when it was clear he was needed to stem a badly flagging clearance count in the midfield. (Should have made the call straight after the Port debacle IMO.) The Thursty situation was more complicated by injury and form. But I thought he made the right call on Thursty when he stuck by him after an indifferent first up performance and we are now seeing the benefits. Dimma shows all the signs of being both smart and stubborn. I like the man.

 

[Rayzorwire]

A few things have become clear over the last few weeks and I don't think much of it reflects well on Hardwick and the coaching staff's judgement or man management skills:

Tuck should have been in the side all year - wherever he's gone on the ground he's brought others into the game beautifully and has been our best player since coming back in. On Sunday he won the first clearance, sent us deep into attack and we stayed there for five minutes hassling the Sydney defence. It changed the tone of the game right from the first bounce and set us up as the hunters, rather than the side who has half a dozen unanswered goals kicked against it in the first quarter and can't lay hands on the opposition OR the ball, because we insist on playing children and one-way mids as first rotation onballers when they're clearly not ready.

Graham is easily our best ruckman and is nowhere near as far off being a decent AFL ruck as the coaching staff apparently think. When the game was there to be taken by a superior ruckman, Sausages Mumford couldn't take it from Graham OR Vickery, much like Clark and Leuenberger couldn't, Sandilands couldn't, and the list goes on. For all his foibles, Graham is already a genuinely formidable second half opponent when it comes to putting in sustained contests, very few out-perform him at the crucial times in games, he's one of the most important players on our list and it's high time the coaching staff started working out how to get the best out of him instead of what they've achieved this year.

Finally, in by far the sweetest twist of fate served up all year, on Sunday we not only got to see what our side looks like with our five best onballers playing all at once with our best ruck for one of the first times ever (to Hardwick's eternal disgrace!), we got to see what our backline could be like without Newman. Houli got all Newman's usual free ball on the weekend and look at the difference when it's only in the hands of a player who is fast enough and fit enough to run the lines properly and take the game on like a genuine gun half back flanker should.

With no Newman there we had no defensive hole others have to constantly cover while he wanders around getting cheap, pointless kicks then sending them nowhere - slowly. With a properly structured midfield in place, we could afford to play our most ambitious development backline of the season and watch them gain real confidence and belief by beating their opponents in situations where our upfield pressure gave them every chance to succeed. We could have replaced Miller and Reiwoldt with another couple of junior talls and still been right in the game. What a pity all our young players didn't get to play more football in games where we played our best midfield - they'd be headed for a finals campaign, the club would be in an infinitely better financial situation, and we wouldn't have let our supporters down yet again.

Sunday was the right development path which some of us have been crying out for all season; our best mids all playing together and supporting one another so we could afford to have poor contributions from some and not lose solely due to that player failing; our best ruckman surrounded by enough fellow goers to ensure no easy clearances to the opposition; no putting the ball in the hands of Newman by default and expecting a different result to the last 150 games where he couldn't get the job done the way it needs to be done for a side to be successful; no half game Helbig's ensuring we're the only side in the comp who has reacted to the sub rule by piling more stress on our top players - guys like Martin and Cotchin who have only had a couple of pre-seasons have had to carry the drastic effects of the new rule AND carry Helbig's every game, while the Geelong's and Collingwood's are very deliberately placing less load on far more seasoned players. It's lunacy at its finest down at Richmond, we try to use player tiredness and soreness as excuses for pathetic performances, with our coaching staff apparently wanting us to pretend we can't see that it was their foolish approach to selection which caused the tiredness and soreness in the first place.

The only reason we've finally got a glimpse of the path Hardwick SHOULD have taken this season, is because due to form or injury, he's been forced to play the current 22. The only reason we've played our best engine room possible is because the coach was forced to. How sad can it get?

He better learn all the things he didn't learn last off-season during this one and mend a few fences between the coaching staff and the playing group, or he's a dead man walking - nobody gets to make that many mistakes and repeat them over several times without getting torn apart by the industry. I don't think he's capable of learning, he's too ignorant and arrogant both in equal measures from all he's shown me so far. Time will tell.

 

[Haggard H]

Any one else getting sick of the empty promises ?

We will make a statement ...

Going come running home...

Selling home games is beneficial to us ...

We have a good young team ... So dose freo and west coast

..........

Reminder to every one we lost to The Suns and Port .... Yeahhh good stament RFC

Yeah? In what sport? We had 3 guys over 25 on Sunday, and two of them will be gone at the end of the year. Dockers had Crowley, Duffield, Grover, Johnson, McPharlin, Pavlich and Sandilands running round last weekend, with other 26+ regulars McPhee, Hayden and Mundy (and Schammer) out. That's half their best 22 in the second half of their careers. They're not young.

And give us Cox, Embley, Kerr, Selwood, Glass, Nicoski, Priddis, Lynch and, heaven forbid, Brett Jones, to mix with our best dozen kids and we'd probably be in the top 6.

But please don't give us any of them. We've got a genuinely young team with a hell of a lot of talent, growth and improvement who will actually be challenging for a flag in a few years time, not providing short term happiness in low finals appearances to keep the football stupid content.

 

[Minty]

Gourdis not doing much in the VFL at the time.


This is a bit harsh oh!! Mighty Tiger...... Has been under suspension for the last 4 games ( with one left to go)... pretty stupid comment from you really
when he was in the best players for the weeks prior to this

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Yeah? In what sport? We had 3 guys over 25 on Sunday, and two of them will be gone at the end of the year. Dockers had Crowley, Duffield, Grover, Johnson, McPharlin, Pavlich and Sandilands running round last weekend, with other 26+ regulars McPhee, Hayden and Mundy (and Schammer) out. That's half their best 22 in the second half of their careers. They're not young.

And give us Cox, Embley, Kerr, Selwood, Glass, Nicoski, Priddis, Lynch and, heaven forbid, Brett Jones, to mix with our best dozen kids and we'd probably be in the top 6.

But please don't give us any of them. We've got a genuinely young team with a hell of a lot of talent, growth and improvement who will actually be challenging for a flag in a few years time, not providing short term happiness in low finals appearances to keep the football stupid content.

Thats as succinct a summation of where the Tigers "game plan' is at as i have read on here... ...

 

[_RT_]

A few things have become clear over the last few weeks and I don't think much of it reflects well on Hardwick and the coaching staff's judgement or man management skills:

Tuck should have been in the side all year - wherever he's gone on the ground he's brought others into the game beautifully and has been our best player since coming back in. On Sunday he won the first clearance, sent us deep into attack and we stayed there for five minutes hassling the Sydney defence. It changed the tone of the game right from the first bounce and set us up as the hunters, rather than the side who has half a dozen unanswered goals kicked against it in the first quarter and can't lay hands on the opposition OR the ball, because we insist on playing children and one-way mids as first rotation onballers when they're clearly not ready.

Graham is easily our best ruckman and is nowhere near as far off being a decent AFL ruck as the coaching staff apparently think. When the game was there to be taken by a superior ruckman, Sausages Mumford couldn't take it from Graham OR Vickery, much like Clark and Leuenberger couldn't, Sandilands couldn't, and the list goes on. For all his foibles, Graham is already a genuinely formidable second half opponent when it comes to putting in sustained contests, very few out-perform him at the crucial times in games, he's one of the most important players on our list and it's high time the coaching staff started working out how to get the best out of him instead of what they've achieved this year.

Finally, in by far the sweetest twist of fate served up all year, on Sunday we not only got to see what our side looks like with our five best onballers playing all at once with our best ruck for one of the first times ever (to Hardwick's eternal disgrace!), we got to see what our backline could be like without Newman. Houli got all Newman's usual free ball on the weekend and look at the difference when it's only in the hands of a player who is fast enough and fit enough to run the lines properly and take the game on like a genuine gun half back flanker should.

With no Newman there we had no defensive hole others have to constantly cover while he wanders around getting cheap, pointless kicks then sending them nowhere - slowly. With a properly structured midfield in place, we could afford to play our most ambitious development backline of the season and watch them gain real confidence and belief by beating their opponents in situations where our upfield pressure gave them every chance to succeed. We could have replaced Miller and Reiwoldt with another couple of junior talls and still been right in the game. What a pity all our young players didn't get to play more football in games where we played our best midfield - they'd be headed for a finals campaign, the club would be in an infinitely better financial situation, and we wouldn't have let our supporters down yet again.

Sunday was the right development path which some of us have been crying out for all season; our best mids all playing together and supporting one another so we could afford to have poor contributions from some and not lose solely due to that player failing; our best ruckman surrounded by enough fellow goers to ensure no easy clearances to the opposition; no putting the ball in the hands of Newman by default and expecting a different result to the last 150 games where he couldn't get the job done the way it needs to be done for a side to be successful; no half game Helbig's ensuring we're the only side in the comp who has reacted to the sub rule by piling more stress on our top players - guys like Martin and Cotchin who have only had a couple of pre-seasons have had to carry the drastic effects of the new rule AND carry Helbig's every game, while the Geelong's and Collingwood's are very deliberately placing less load on far more seasoned players. It's lunacy at its finest down at Richmond, we try to use player tiredness and soreness as excuses for pathetic performances, with our coaching staff apparently wanting us to pretend we can't see that it was their foolish approach to selection which caused the tiredness and soreness in the first place.

The only reason we've finally got a glimpse of the path Hardwick SHOULD have taken this season, is because due to form or injury, he's been forced to play the current 22. The only reason we've played our best engine room possible is because the coach was forced to. How sad can it get?

He better learn all the things he didn't learn last off-season during this one and mend a few fences between the coaching staff and the playing group, or he's a dead man walking - nobody gets to make that many mistakes and repeat them over several times without getting torn apart by the industry. I don't think he's capable of learning, he's too ignorant and arrogant both in equal measures from all he's shown me so far. Time will tell.

Well its pretty clear where you sit now. You're clearly a 'wants results now rather than long term success' supporter. No wonder you are such a big fan of TW afterall he worried more about immediate results rather than building for long term success.

What I find really ironic is how you blasted March for demaning TW made finals in his 4th-5th years saying that we didn't need the added pressure and yet here you are before Hardwick has even finished his second year suggesting that he has let us down by not making finals this year, when it was clear to nearly everyone that we were nowhere near ready to play finals this year.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Well its pretty clear where you sit now. You're clearly a 'wants results now rather than long term success' supporter.

It's become obvious to most that we could have managed enough wins to play finals or certainly give it a good shake if we'd simply played our best available side this year in all games. That's not sacrificing long term success as you ridiculously assert, it's about laying a proper foundation for long term success.

We saw the end results of Hardwick's 'development' this year, the club went to hell, it's only now recovering and clawing back a shred of respect because he's been forced to stop being the game's biggest moron and play Tuck and Graham.

As I've told you all season and you should have long ago admitted, Tuck in the side aids development far more than leaving him out - just take a look at what our backline full of juniors did on the weekend. That's real development, not kids getting disheartened and hurt, and not the club getting humiliated.

At both ends of the ground our young developing players were given their best opportunity to shine, mostly because they finally had the midfield they should have been supported by all year.

You can argue against that all you like RT, at this late stage you couldn't possibly end up looking any sillier than you have already by blindly embracing every blatantly obvious mistake Hardwick has made all year.

What I find really ironic...

Every time you use the word there's no actual irony, just your misinterpretations - of the word "ironic" as much as anything - and your burning need to make one point occasionally which is actually right, no matter how trivial or irrelevant.

There would be "irony" if I were capable of pressuring Hardwick the way March pressured Wallace, or if I'd defended Wallace not playing our best side, or the situations were remotely similar in some other way. They're not, it's just more bizarre, OT waffle which bears zero relation to anything I've said on this thread, and certainly no relation to anything "ironic."

I believe that any board which gives 'or else' ultimatums to its coaching staff is asking for trouble, it's just dumb business when you have zero idea what the season will bring in terms of injuries, lack of form or off-field problems for key players. When March did it, we ended up going into the season virtually without Richo and without his Brownlow level form from the season before. Nobody would have rated us a strong finals chance with Richo out for the year, nor losing Foley, not having Cotchin early, and all the other things which happened at the beginning of that season to hamper any serious chance we had of playing finals, but there was March's 'or else' hanging out there in the breeze.

March kept his position and has gone on to stuff up pretty much everything else he's touched in the time since, Wallace got canned for 'failing' and remains the smartest football brain who has ever sat in the coaches box for us.

Now that, my friend, is ironic.

 

[tugga]

One thing that has become apparant to me is that Hardwick has delivered on his promise to find a more even spread of goalkickers.
Last year we had Jack winning the Coleman with Nason the next best on 14.
This year it reads:

Jack 56
Vickery 31
Martin 26
King 23
Nahas 20
Cotchin 16

 

[The Goon]

One thing that has become apparant to me is that Hardwick has delivered on his promise to find a more even spread of goalkickers.
Last year we had Jack winning the Coleman with Nason the next best on 14.
This year it reads:

Jack 56
Vickery 31
Martin 26
King 23
Nahas 20
Cotchin 16

Plus 10 goal kickers on the weekend ... TEN. Made me very happy.

 

[NQTIGER]

It's become obvious to most that we could have managed enough wins to play finals or certainly give it a good shake if we'd simply played our best available side this year in all games. That's not sacrificing long term success as you ridiculously assert, it's about laying a proper foundation for long term success.

We saw the end results of Hardwick's 'development' this year, the club went to hell, it's only now recovering and clawing back a shred of respect because he's been forced to stop being the game's biggest moron and play Tuck and Graham.

As I've told you all season and you should have long ago admitted, Tuck in the side aids development far more than leaving him out - just take a look at what our backline full of juniors did on the weekend. That's real development, not kids getting disheartened and hurt, and not the club getting humiliated.

At both ends of the ground our young developing players were given their best opportunity to shine, mostly because they finally had the midfield they should have been supported by all year.

You can argue against that all you like RT, at this late stage you couldn't possibly end up looking any sillier than you have already by blindly embracing every blatantly obvious mistake Hardwick has made all year.



Every time you use the word there's no actual irony, just your misinterpretations - of the word "ironic" as much as anything - and your burning need to make one point occasionally which is actually right, no matter how trivial or irrelevant.

There would be "irony" if I were capable of pressuring Hardwick the way March pressured Wallace, or if I'd defended Wallace not playing our best side, or the situations were remotely similar in some other way. They're not, it's just more bizarre, OT waffle which bears zero relation to anything I've said on this thread, and certainly no relation to anything "ironic."

I believe that any board which gives 'or else' ultimatums to its coaching staff is asking for trouble, it's just dumb business when you have zero idea what the season will bring in terms of injuries, lack of form or off-field problems for key players. When March did it, we ended up going into the season virtually without Richo and without his Brownlow level form from the season before. Nobody would have rated us a strong finals chance with Richo out for the year, nor losing Foley, not having Cotchin early, and all the other things which happened at the beginning of that season to hamper any serious chance we had of playing finals, but there was March's 'or else' hanging out there in the breeze.

March kept his position and has gone on to stuff up pretty much everything else he's touched in the time since, Wallace got canned for 'failing' and remains the smartest football brain who has ever sat in the coaches box for us.

Now that, my friend, is ironic.

Touche

 

[tugga]

Touche

Not sure what you think you are gaining by wedging yourself in between this?
Is your aim to sit in the corner and make a snide remark every time these two have something to say?
Either debate the argument, add something new or butt out. Your choice. That goes for everyone.

 

[_RT_]

It's become obvious to most that we could have managed enough wins to play finals or certainly give it a good shake if we'd simply played our best available side this year in all games. That's not sacrificing long term success as you ridiculously assert, it's about laying a proper foundation for long term success.

We saw the end results of Hardwick's 'development' this year, the club went to hell, it's only now recovering and clawing back a shred of respect because he's been forced to stop being the game's biggest moron and play Tuck and Graham.

As I've told you all season and you should have long ago admitted, Tuck in the side aids development far more than leaving him out - just take a look at what our backline full of juniors did on the weekend. That's real development, not kids getting disheartened and hurt, and not the club getting humiliated.

At both ends of the ground our young developing players were given their best opportunity to shine, mostly because they finally had the midfield they should have been supported by all year.

You can argue against that all you like RT, at this late stage you couldn't possibly end up looking any sillier than you have already by blindly embracing every blatantly obvious mistake Hardwick has made all year

Every time you use the word there's no actual irony, just your misinterpretations - of the word "ironic" as much as anything - and your burning need to make one point occasionally which is actually right, no matter how trivial or irrelevant.

There would be "irony" if I were capable of pressuring Hardwick the way March pressured Wallace, or if I'd defended Wallace not playing our best side, or the situations were remotely similar in some other way. They're not, it's just more bizarre, OT waffle which bears zero relation to anything I've said on this thread, and certainly no relation to anything "ironic."

I believe that any board which gives 'or else' ultimatums to its coaching staff is asking for trouble, it's just dumb business when you have zero idea what the season will bring in terms of injuries, lack of form or off-field problems for key players. When March did it, we ended up going into the season virtually without Richo and without his Brownlow level form from the season before. Nobody would have rated us a strong finals chance with Richo out for the year, nor losing Foley, not having Cotchin early, and all the other things which happened at the beginning of that season to hamper any serious chance we had of playing finals, but there was March's 'or else' hanging out there in the breeze.

March kept his position and has gone on to stuff up pretty much everything else he's touched in the time since, Wallace got canned for 'failing' and remains the smartest football brain who has ever sat in the coaches box for us.

Now that, my friend, is ironic.

What I have embraced Ray is a coach who came in with a plan when he took over and no matter what hasn't deviated from it to keep the fans happy when things got a little tough when we started losing games. Unfortunately the same can't be said for his predecessorwho would practically change plans from week to week and season to season.

In 2004 TW said he would be rebuilding the list when he took over. Started off well in his first year where he brought in a heap of young kids in the drafts and After just missing out on finals in his second season he went out recruited guys like Polak and Kingsley to add to Bowden who was recruited at the end of his first season in a bid to try and make finals in his 3rd season. How did that pan out again? From memory 2007 saw us plummet back down to the bottom of the ladder as holes in our list were exposed as key players suffered with injury issues.

In 09 when Hardwick took over he too said that he would be rebuilding the list and like TW started of well in his first draft bringing in a swag of kids. After a slow start we got on a roll mid season won a handful of games before again falling away. In his second year at the drafts he again brought in a swag of kids and again after a slow start got rolling and we again won a handful of games as the kids picked up the pace and started feeling comfortable. The most important thing is what Hardwick has done when it comes to sticking to the plan right from the start and hasn't changed it even when things were going pear shaped early & late in his first and second years.

Anyone expecting him to have a list that is so inexperienced in the finals in his second season is kidding themselves, as it was quite clear from very early on that it was never going to happen. Then again I guess its easier to take a pot shot at the coach and accuse him of getting everything wrong, rather than admit that you were in fact wrong to expect finals this year.

 

[Rayzorwire]

What I have embraced Ray is a coach who came in with a plan when he took over and no matter what hasn't deviated from it to keep the fans happy when things got a little tough when we started losing games.

He's deviating right now to appease fans by playing Tuck instead of one of the kids at Coburg, just like he did last year. He wants some wins to finish the year off because he's made a right mess of the rest of it.

The most important thing is what Hardwick has done when it comes to sticking to the plan right from the start and hasn't changed it even when things were going pear shaped early & late in his first and second years.

Things have gone pear shaped for him at the precise moments in seasons when he's refused to play Tuck in the middle. When things have got really bad and his coaching has been questioned, he's been forced to play Tuck and things have improved markedly. Only you could possibly pretend that the club becoming a laughing stock twice in two seasons, then having to call on Tuck to bail him out both times, was all part of Hardwick's plan.

In 2004 TW said he would be rebuilding the list when he took over. Started off well in his first year where he brought in a heap of young kids in the drafts and After just missing out on finals in his second season he went out recruited guys like Polak and Kingsley to add to Bowden who was recruited at the end of his first season in a bid to try and make finals in his 3rd season.

Wallace tried to make finals every year, good coaches do that. From the stars like Richo and Brown through to journeymen like Simmonds and Stafford, a heck of a lot of players played the best football of their careers under him. Every year he got a better performance out of our list than seemed possible on paper, while his 'failures' came when he could barely field even a bad side.

Take a look at the side Wallace coached against the previous season's premiers Port in '05 when we kicked 18 goals to 5 in the last three quarters and massacred them:

B: Kellaway Gaspar Graham
HB: Bowden Hall Newman
C: Tivendale Johnson Campbell
HF: Pettifer Simmonds Deledio
F: Brown Richardson Stafford
Foll: Knobel Tuck Coughlan
Int: Chaffey, Krakouer, Tambling, Meyer

There's a ton of rubbish in that lineup RT as you're well aware, probably a dozen players Hardwick wouldn't take for free, they were wooden spooners the year before, but Wallace had them all jumping out of their skins and we were the form side of the competition until injuries and bad luck caught up with us.

Hardwick hasn't even come close to getting results like that as a senior coach, so it's pretty silly to even try to compare them IMO.

Wallace has always achieved better results than could have reasonably been expected from the list he had to work with, Hardwick has done nothing and his reputation is based almost solely on the fact that he gets along well with everyone and has a plan to stop losing games at some distant point in the future.

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

What's with all this Tuck love? After the Dreamtime game where he was subbed off, I said he would be lucky to play another senior game this year! He was absolutely shocking!!! He missed a man by foot only 20m away by grubbering the kick and wasn't under a lot of pressure. How could Hardwick play him after that? And we had shown reasonable form before that game without him! After a while he realized the kids were tiring and so was forced to bring him back. To Tucks credit he has played well and has forced the selection committee to continue to pick him in the squad. I fully understand why he has done what he has with Tuck.
Now with Post, that is another story.....