News Harley Bennell - Ends at Freo in 2019

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Dormammu

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Regarding the S&C team.

Ken Withers is on record (2017 iirc) as saying that when they did their due diligence they said "this (the calf) was something that could blow up in our faces".

So the risk was properly identified and no doubt clearly communicated.

Thus I'm slowly coming around to the argument that it was the failure to (a) have in place an exit strategy for Bennell and (b) paying too much, that led to Bell staging a coup d'etat to force Bond and Lloyd out.
 

sherrif

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Yes, let's randomly sack people because they aren't magicians in chronically injured players back out on the park.
Yep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.
 

sherrif

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Regarding the S&C team.

Ken Withers is on record (2017 iirc) as saying that when they did their due diligence they said "this (the calf) was something that could blow up in our faces".

So the risk was properly identified and no doubt clearly communicated.

Thus I'm slowly coming around to the argument that it was the failure to (a) have in place an exit strategy for Bennell and (b) paying too much, that led to Bell staging a coup d'etat to force Bond and Lloyd out.
THat sounds like the risk was identified.
 

blue shark

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Yep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.
The whole situation was messed up from the start, we wanted to play Harley midfield. I know I will cop it for saying
this but Hawks went the right path with Cyril, O Mera, Scully, etc.
That and our coach believes in greater effort, over a skilled style that has proven to be successful to reach finals
in reasonable health.
 

Scham

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The whole situation was messed up from the start, we wanted to play Harley midfield. I know I will cop it for saying
this but Hawks went the right path with Cyril, O Mera, Scully, etc.
That and our coach believes in greater effort, over a skilled style that has proven to be successful to reach finals
in reasonable health.
It’s true that this played a part. He was expected to get fitter with us than what he ever was with GC. Weber’s whole philosophy is to put miles into the legs and I mean a heap of miles!
 

eastfreo75

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Yep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.
What?

Their always be people who are better in profession than others.

Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.

Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.

Why good luck, game style, travel or management?

The old saying, if you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.

Maybe, axing the conditioning team might not make a difference but for me let’s try something different.
 

blue shark

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What?

Their always be people who are better in profession than others.

Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.

Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.

Why good luck, game style, travel or management?

The old saying, if you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.

Maybe, axing the conditioning team might not make a difference but for me let’s try something different.
Unless we change the game plan slightly, and the S&C I don't see a different result. Only way to change the
game plan is recognised assistants who have been bought in for succession, Ross becomes a better boss.
 

FreoMonocle

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A crying shame that he couldn't get up, not just for Freo but the AFL - he was a potential brownlow medalist, though splitting votes between him, Fyfe and others would have hurt all their chances.

The club did the right thing to try and get him, he was a risk - and cheap as a consequence.

The club also did the right thing to keep him and try for 4 years, the reality is that if we did get rid of him earlier, that was another draft pick to add to the end of what we already used - and we brought in a lot of players in the rebuild - so pick 100ish. Maybe if we weren't in a rebuild, we would have had a meaningful use for round 4 or similar and dropped him earlier.

Anyway, it's probably fitting that he has a newborn child - a new chapter as the old one closes. All the best Harley.
 

sherrif

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I'm not a sack the s&c poster, but ensuring we are in the best practice level of performance is perhaps the biggest impact Bell can have at the club.
THere is no evidence we are not at the best pract
What?

Their always be people who are better in profession than others.

Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.

Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.

Why good luck, game style, travel or management?

The old saying, if you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.

Maybe, axing the conditioning team might not make a difference but for me let’s try something different.
Sorry but thats utter nonsense. That's why how we havent changed our conditioning team despite a heap of new players and professionals coming to the club in recent years. How injuries are managed across the board is actually very standard across all of the afl. Im pretty sure someone like Conca whos had a ton of injuries at Richmond would also agree with what Im saying. Finding a cure for cancer. Thats new medical ground. How sports injuries are managed and the procedure for bringing players back is VERY much standard procedure with the skill of the surgeon who does the operation way more important than the strength and management of an injury which Im certain youd find. Ironically, its only every now and then that a new procedure becomes available in sports injuriues. LIke the blood injections of the calves, which we tried with Bennell.
 

eastfreo75

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THere is no evidence we are not at the best pract

Sorry but thats utter nonsense. That's why how we havent changed our conditioning team despite a heap of new players and professionals coming to the club in recent years. How injuries are managed across the board is actually very standard across all of the afl. Im pretty sure someone like Conca whos had a ton of injuries at Richmond would also agree with what Im saying. Finding a cure for cancer. Thats new medical ground. How sports injuries are managed and the procedure for bringing players back is VERY much standard procedure with the skill of the surgeon who does the operation way more important than the strength and management of an injury which Im certain youd find. Ironically, its only every now and then that a new procedure becomes available in sports injuriues. LIke the blood injections of the calves, which we tried with Bennell.
What are you talking about?

Their is far range of training styles and the conditioning team would have to make decisions all the time.

Sorry, some conditioning staff would be better at making decisions ie training loads and rehabilitation.

To say their is little difference between Gold Coast and Hawthorn conditioning teams is wrong.

We have had 4 straight years of long injury lists.

Is it nonsense to question our conditioning teams decisions and programs?

The use of ice baths has two camps of thoughts. Same goes with heat.

Sorry, just like game styles, conditioning can vary a lot.
 

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sven_inc

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Hi everyone.
As a Physio I've been a keen observer of Harley since his GC days. My passion is trying to better understand the cause of many of the musculoskeletal issues that plague us and Harley has been right at the front of my mind over the last few years.

If anyone's interested, I've put together an article explaining Achilles issues that seem to fit in specifically with what I see with Harley and his calf issues (from the outside of course).

http://yourwellnessnerd.com/achilles-tendonitis/

The article itself is not Harley-specific but hopefully it may help shed some light on some of the things that may be in play and perhaps haven't been addressed yet. Clinically I see a lot of issues that may not necessarily be common practice yet and these are potentially some of them.

In short, I think Harley has a few notable mechanical concerns that may still be hanging around and setting those legs up to struggle. His ankles look pretty stiff, his hips look tight and the way he uses his back particularly when sitting may potentially be the things keeping those calves on the edge of injury.

I've written separate pieces on Cyril's hammies and Nic Nat's ACL's using some images and footage to highlight what Im finding and happy to go trawling on behalf of Harley as well if anyone is interested.

I'm sure many here have already put a line through him, but hope this is appropriate to post either way.

Best of luck (after next week) as finals approach 👍🏻
 

Kenyan

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Hi everyone.
As a Physio I've been a keen observer of Harley since his GC days. My passion is trying to better understand the cause of many of the musculoskeletal issues that plague us and Harley has been right at the front of my mind over the last few years.

If anyone's interested, I've put together an article explaining Achilles issues that seem to fit in specifically with what I see with Harley and his calf issues (from the outside of course).

http://yourwellnessnerd.com/achilles-tendonitis/

The article itself is not Harley-specific but hopefully it may help shed some light on some of the things that may be in play and perhaps haven't been addressed yet. Clinically I see a lot of issues that may not necessarily be common practice yet and these are potentially some of them.

In short, I think Harley has a few notable mechanical concerns that may still be hanging around and setting those legs up to struggle. His ankles look pretty stiff, his hips look tight and the way he uses his back particularly when sitting may potentially be the things keeping those calves on the edge of injury.

I've written separate pieces on Cyril's hammies and Nic Nat's ACL's using some images and footage to highlight what Im finding and happy to go trawling on behalf of Harley as well if anyone is interested.

I'm sure many here have already put a line through him, but hope this is appropriate to post either way.

Best of luck (after next week) as finals approach 👍🏻
Good read. Shame Harley has not been able to play on a regular basis.
My concern is with stress related bone fractures particularly in the bigger players - Taberner, Pearce, Hogan etc
Interesting to hear your comments.
 

Belnakor

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What?

Their always be people who are better in profession than others.

Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.

Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.
If you remember back to the McPharlin days, when he came to us from the Hawks he was basically thrown in as steak knives because they thought he was cooked from injuries. We got him up and running pretty well.

We've done ok with Hogan who was carrying a potentially career ending injury.
 

blue shark

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If you remember back to the McPharlin days, when he came to us from the Hawks he was basically thrown in as steak knives because they thought he was cooked from injuries. We got him up and running pretty well.

We've done ok with Hogan who was carrying a potentially career ending injury.
They were desperate for pick 1, and who would blame them? Hodge, Ball, Judd. They rate Elvis, but those 3 guys
were once in a generation hyped.
 

fnerd

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They were desperate for pick 1, and who would blame them? Hodge, Ball, Judd. They rate Elvis, but those 3 guys
were once in a generation hyped.
Yeah I think you ll find tho Elvis wanted to come home,helped of course by a pretty good contract I’d say,
Hawks preferred to keep him but that was the price they had to pay ,as you say , due to being very keen for the no1 pick
 

BlueE

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Oct 12, 2017
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Hi everyone.
As a Physio I've been a keen observer of Harley since his GC days. My passion is trying to better understand the cause of many of the musculoskeletal issues that plague us and Harley has been right at the front of my mind over the last few years.

If anyone's interested, I've put together an article explaining Achilles issues that seem to fit in specifically with what I see with Harley and his calf issues (from the outside of course).

http://yourwellnessnerd.com/achilles-tendonitis/

The article itself is not Harley-specific but hopefully it may help shed some light on some of the things that may be in play and perhaps haven't been addressed yet. Clinically I see a lot of issues that may not necessarily be common practice yet and these are potentially some of them.

In short, I think Harley has a few notable mechanical concerns that may still be hanging around and setting those legs up to struggle. His ankles look pretty stiff, his hips look tight and the way he uses his back particularly when sitting may potentially be the things keeping those calves on the edge of injury.

I've written separate pieces on Cyril's hammies and Nic Nat's ACL's using some images and footage to highlight what Im finding and happy to go trawling on behalf of Harley as well if anyone is interested.

I'm sure many here have already put a line through him, but hope this is appropriate to post either way.

Best of luck (after next week) as finals approach 👍🏻
Thanks, very interesting. Do you think the many times Harley suffered from so called "Calf awareness" stopping him playing but no calf injury showed up on scans, that it could have been tendonitis?

Using bands and PND would benefit everyone I'd say and don't know if we use them at all.

Also, many of the players wold be using sports or running shoes when walking around, so are you saying these type of shoes aren't good for these type of injuries?

We persisted in wanting Harly to play as a midfielder when a few here thought he would be best managed like Cyril, playin in a forward pocket, what are your thoughts on where he was being asked to lay in relation to this sort of calf injury?

Appreciate any other comments you have with regard to Harley.
 

sven_inc

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Good read. Shame Harley has not been able to play on a regular basis.
My concern is with stress related bone fractures particularly in the bigger players - Taberner, Pearce, Hogan etc
Interesting to hear your comments.
Cheers mate, the key with most lower leg issues is that faulty mechanisms that set each of them up to fail are all relatively similar. Whether it's an Achilles injury, a calf, navicular bone stress, shin splints, plantar fasciits, turf toe etc they're all very similar but the consequences just express themselves differently based on the person.

I always read with interest when an article comes out commenting on the surface you guys have to put up with being the factor that gets blamed. It certainly plays a role, but it can only ever expose something already festering under the surface mechanically rather than create something brand new.

With guys like Hogan, Tabener etc I'd be willing to bet they have something forcing them to load those injured areas differently - hence why most are one-sided issues. Attach that to bigger guys bounding around on harder surfaces and theres an increased chance something gets exposed.
 

sven_inc

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Thanks, very interesting. Do you think the many times Harley suffered from so called "Calf awareness" stopping him playing but no calf injury showed up on scans, that it could have been tendonitis?

Using bands and PND would benefit everyone I'd say and don't know if we use them at all.

Also, many of the players wold be using sports or running shoes when walking around, so are you saying these type of shoes aren't good for these type of injuries?

We persisted in wanting Harly to play as a midfielder when a few here thought he would be best managed like Cyril, playin in a forward pocket, what are your thoughts on where he was being asked to lay in relation to this sort of calf injury?

Appreciate any other comments you have with regard to Harley.
Thanks for the kind words.

Anything "awareness" related is often just something not feeling right. Tendonitis can be shown on a scan and it could have been that but it's always hard to make proper sense from what gets said publically through the media.

For Harley any awareness could just mean an increased sense of tightness which happens when the body begins to feel the need to protect something it feels may be on the verge of dysfunction. Nothing may be injured but if the situation which initiated the tightening was more forceful, challenging or threatening it could have resulted in tissue damage.

Bands and PNF for some reason just arent as common place as they should be. They're really the only way to approach meaningful mechanical change beyond foam rollers etc. If interested I put some work into explaining that here:

In regards to footwear, I think we often lose perspective in the industry which makes it hard for everyone else.

If you trawl through most players' instagrams many still wear thongs - I know Hogan does from what I can see. These are basically junk food for feet. The issue with shoes most people/players wear day to day is that they all often have a heel at the back. Some Nike's only have a small one, but it's a heel nonetheless. This is important because any heel at all is the exact amount of ankle range you dont get access to. And if you're in the same heeled shoes for long enough you'll start to lose it. Its one of the key reasons so many athletes still have the same issues.

Again if interested I cover this in detail here:


In terms of Harley's position, it should genuinely be a non issue. If they only played him forward instead of mid to protect him then they're probably not getting to the root cause of his issue - more so trying manage or protect him. The way the Hawks managed Cyril with his Hammies was interesting. They changed his running technique, changed his role as you said and hammered his calf, hammy, glutes etc. But again this only buffers the underlying mechanical issues, not necessarily cure them.

Again if interested haha: http://yourwellnessnerd.com/hamstring-injury-feat-cyril-rioli/

I'll try and drum up some pics to highlight what I'm seeing with Harley
 

BlueE

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Thanks for the kind words.

Anything "awareness" related is often just something not feeling right. Tendonitis can be shown on a scan and it could have been that but it's always hard to make proper sense from what gets said publically through the media.

For Harley any awareness could just mean an increased sense of tightness which happens when the body begins to feel the need to protect something it feels may be on the verge of dysfunction. Nothing may be injured but if the situation which initiated the tightening was more forceful, challenging or threatening it could have resulted in tissue damage.

Bands and PNF for some reason just arent as common place as they should be. They're really the only way to approach meaningful mechanical change beyond foam rollers etc. If interested I put some work into explaining that here:

In regards to footwear, I think we often lose perspective in the industry which makes it hard for everyone else.

If you trawl through most players' instagrams many still wear thongs - I know Hogan does from what I can see. These are basically junk food for feet. The issue with shoes most people/players wear day to day is that they all often have a heel at the back. Some Nike's only have a small one, but it's a heel nonetheless. This is important because any heel at all is the exact amount of ankle range you dont get access to. And if you're in the same heeled shoes for long enough you'll start to lose it. Its one of the key reasons so many athletes still have the same issues.

Again if interested I cover this in detail here:


In terms of Harley's position, it should genuinely be a non issue. If they only played him forward instead of mid to protect him then they're probably not getting to the root cause of his issue - more so trying manage or protect him. The way the Hawks managed Cyril with his Hammies was interesting. They changed his running technique, changed his role as you said and hammered his calf, hammy, glutes etc. But again this only buffers the underlying mechanical issues, not necessarily cure them.

Again if interested haha: http://yourwellnessnerd.com/hamstring-injury-feat-cyril-rioli/

I'll try and drum up some pics to highlight what I'm seeing with Harley
Excellent response, thanks again.

Must admit I thought the same when Hogan first came over and was walking around everywhere in his thongs!

I've questioned what's happened in Harley's rehab over the years with us. When he received his first injury, a contact injury to the calf in the last minutes of a WAFL match before he's even played one AFL game the S&C dept built up his calf strength to be 40% more than any other player. Then he seriously injured it again? I have no idea why they would do that!
 
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PapaJ

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Thanks for the kind words.

Anything "awareness" related is often just something not feeling right. Tendonitis can be shown on a scan and it could have been that but it's always hard to make proper sense from what gets said publically through the media.

For Harley any awareness could just mean an increased sense of tightness which happens when the body begins to feel the need to protect something it feels may be on the verge of dysfunction. Nothing may be injured but if the situation which initiated the tightening was more forceful, challenging or threatening it could have resulted in tissue damage.

Bands and PNF for some reason just arent as common place as they should be. They're really the only way to approach meaningful mechanical change beyond foam rollers etc. If interested I put some work into explaining that here:

In regards to footwear, I think we often lose perspective in the industry which makes it hard for everyone else.

If you trawl through most players' instagrams many still wear thongs - I know Hogan does from what I can see. These are basically junk food for feet. The issue with shoes most people/players wear day to day is that they all often have a heel at the back. Some Nike's only have a small one, but it's a heel nonetheless. This is important because any heel at all is the exact amount of ankle range you dont get access to. And if you're in the same heeled shoes for long enough you'll start to lose it. Its one of the key reasons so many athletes still have the same issues.

Again if interested I cover this in detail here:


In terms of Harley's position, it should genuinely be a non issue. If they only played him forward instead of mid to protect him then they're probably not getting to the root cause of his issue - more so trying manage or protect him. The way the Hawks managed Cyril with his Hammies was interesting. They changed his running technique, changed his role as you said and hammered his calf, hammy, glutes etc. But again this only buffers the underlying mechanical issues, not necessarily cure them.

Again if interested haha: http://yourwellnessnerd.com/hamstring-injury-feat-cyril-rioli/

I'll try and drum up some pics to highlight what I'm seeing with Harley
Interesting stuff from sven_inc, appreciate it myself. Probably would be good to move it to the injury thread as it goes beyond Harley himself. Not sure if mods would be in on that? Just a thought.

Tayl0r or Allikat?
 

MadMundy

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I sincerely hope that the rumours of having him on the rookie list aren't true. Enough is enough, we've had him on the list for years now to no avail. I had hope before but I'm now firmly in the camp that say that Harley is done. It's sad, but unfortunately that's life. Move him on and stop giving him false hope about something that will not happen.
 

freo_leo29

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Not sure where the Rookie list rumours are from, Ross and Bell have pretty much stamped his papers already going by their last interviews.

Bell did mention exploring options for him to continue playing footy but he was talking about with another club, not us.
 

mr.11

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Not sure where the Rookie list rumours are from, Ross and Bell have pretty much stamped his papers already going by their last interviews.

Bell did mention exploring options for him to continue playing footy but he was talking about with another club, not us.
I didn't get that vibe listening to Bell talk.
Working through a few options - I reckon there is a chance he might stay,know in the next few weeks he said.
 
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