News Harley Bennell - Signed for 2019

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Scham

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And then to continue to back that punt way past the point that it’s viable.

And maybe, just maybe, for ******* the calf in the first place.
 

Tayl0r

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I expect we will see senior players who aren't picked after round four retiring mid year from persistent injuries to make use of the draft, then next year it won't be around.

Unless clubs like Carlton or Gold Coast picked up the media propped up undrafted gun from the VFL. Then it will stay.
 

Docker82

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Doubt the AFL ends any experiment after one season. If AFLX got a second year this definately will.

FWIW I reckon its here to stay as a mechanism to make sure the bottom clubs get the best mature aged talent (and speed up rebuilds). The odd depth player success story wouldn't do it harm either.
 

M_rash

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Doubt the AFL ends any experiment after one season. If AFLX got a second year this definately will.

FWIW I reckon its here to stay as a mechanism to make sure the bottom clubs get the best mature aged talent (and speed up rebuilds). The odd depth player success story wouldn't do it harm either.
Interesting take on it. I see it more for the teams contending that loose an important player but don’t have a mature back up (ie ruck, key defender). Takes ages to be a contender and for that to go down the drain because of injury, the AFL don’t like that.

Personally, I quite like the list management side of the game, and think these supplementary and mid year drafts detract a lot from it. Too many chances to top up now.

Rebuilding sides should play their kids instead of drafting over-looked state players. Or draft said state player on their rookie list, instead of taking the speculative kid. Getting the balance of experience vs youth is tricky for rebuilding clubs - but now they can err on the side of youth, knowing if their senior players get injured, they can just pick up a mature body in the new drafts.
 

malpaso

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Clubs need and should have the ability to supplement/bolster their list throughout the season. Injuries are the biggest factor in this and also the chance that a state player could be picked up at various times of the year lifts the standard of state competitions.
It exists in every sport around the world why should the AFL not have it?
 

malpaso

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No, but if he hasn't played by then, then we should make the call.

The same goes for Sandi.
Sandi will be on our list to finish the season. No doubt about that, you don't dump a club legend midway through a season and hope to keep players at your club.
 

Tayl0r

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Clubs need and should have the ability to supplement/bolster their list throughout the season. Injuries are the biggest factor in this and also the chance that a state player could be picked up at various times of the year lifts the standard of state competitions.
It exists in every sport around the world why should the AFL not have it?
The draft is the issue, I'm not sure AFL media and fan groups would be happy for any player over 18 to be an undrafted free agent. Deep down they expect seventeen year olds to be employed as admin clerks at Collingwood then signed as undrafted free agents right before the next draft.
 

malpaso

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The draft is the issue, I'm not sure AFL media and fan groups would be happy for any player over 18 to be an undrafted free agent. Deep down they expect seventeen year olds to be employed as admin clerks at Collingwood then signed as undrafted free agents right before the next draft.
The ability to sign an undrafted free agent is limited after the draft. There are 'windows' to do so and I'm pretty certain it closes well before the draft is held. The best talent is still available through the draft. It's not rocket science and the AFL is not inventing anything here, it is well proven in other sports around the world.
 

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go_the_dockers

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Sandi will be on our list to finish the season. No doubt about that, you don't dump a club legend midway through a season and hope to keep players at your club.
If he has not played for the first 12 rounds, and his calf is gone he should retire and let us draft someone mid season.
 

Tayl0r

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The ability to sign an undrafted free agent is limited after the draft. There are 'windows' to do so and I'm pretty certain it closes well before the draft is held. The best talent is still available through the draft. It's not rocket science and the AFL is not inventing anything here, it is well proven in other sports around the world.
I also think the AFL has a vested interest in not expanding the list sizes, which would facilitate a lot more out of draft list additions, because they are liable for the salaries. They cough up the player payments for all clubs, and more players especially to clubs in bad debt is just more money out.
 

Tayl0r

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How long are these contracts for the guys picked up mid year? Is it literally a 6 month contract?
That's right. They can be contracted for future years though at any time in that half season. If they get dropped at the end of the season and no other club picks them up they get a payout of about $20,000.
 

Freo88

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That's right. They can be contracted for future years though at any time in that half season. If they get dropped at the end of the season and no other club picks them up they get a payout of about $20,000.
Interesting.

I can't imagine this exercise will be cheap year on year. Where's this extra cash coming from?
 

Tayl0r

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Interesting.

I can't imagine this exercise will be cheap year on year. Where's this extra cash coming from?
I don't know where it sits in the total player payments. That there is an inactive list brings up the possibility that the player on the inactive list has their salary removed from the cap. It doesn't allow for much wiggle room in half a season, but creative accountants do have inspired imaginations should that be true.
 

Docker82

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Interesting take on it. I see it more for the teams contending that loose an important player but don’t have a mature back up (ie ruck, key defender). Takes ages to be a contender and for that to go down the drain because of injury, the AFL don’t like that.

Personally, I quite like the list management side of the game, and think these supplementary and mid year drafts detract a lot from it. Too many chances to top up now.

Rebuilding sides should play their kids instead of drafting over-looked state players. Or draft said state player on their rookie list, instead of taking the speculative kid. Getting the balance of experience vs youth is tricky for rebuilding clubs - but now they can err on the side of youth, knowing if their senior players get injured, they can just pick up a mature body in the new drafts.
So if you saw a Tim Kelly running around in the WAFL you'd rather 'play the kids' you already have.

Let's remember he was drafted at pick 25 or so. Each year there's one or two mature agers taken before 30. Wouldn't you rather get them six months early and have an extra second rounder. Almost certainly.

I just feel clubs will be left behind if they don't get decent long term players from this. Doesn't have to be players as good as Tim Kelly either. Only clubs right at the top will use it as injury cover imo.

I feel its a mechanism to help clubs rebuild quicker in disguise, only disguised to stop fans complaining (as much).
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Nobody's bagging Fremantle for taking a punt. They are bagging Fremantle for spending a first round draft pick on that punt.
I don't think what we traded for Bennell was that big a deal.

We moved down 6 spots (#16 -> #22) for Bennell plus #35. If you care about the whole draft points thing that rates Bennell as a #26.

The risk/reward of Bennell for #26 is OK.

In comparison, the Hawks traded #19 and #40 for Jono O'Rourke and #43 (rates O'Rourke as worth #18). O'Rourke is now gone from Hawthorn after 12 games in 4 years.

Why compare Bennell and O'Rourke? Both were #2 picks to expansion clubs, and their original clubs wanted to move them on after a few years. So both were rated pretty damn high with lots of potential but that potential never got realised.

Just looking at the raw facts of the two trades O'Rourke to the Hawks was just as big a bust that Bennell to us may end up being.

The reason the O'Rourke trade doesn't get as much attention as the Bennell trade is down to one thing: the Hawks have won plenty of games since that trade and we haven't.

Winning hides a multitude of sins.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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So if you saw a Tim Kelly running around in the WAFL you'd rather 'play the kids' you already have.

Let's remember he was drafted at pick 25 or so. Each year there's one or two mature agers taken before 30. Wouldn't you rather get them six months early and have an extra second rounder. Almost certainly.

I just feel clubs will be left behind if they don't get decent long term players from this. Doesn't have to be players as good as Tim Kelly either. Only clubs right at the top will use it as injury cover imo.

I feel its a mechanism to help clubs rebuild quicker in disguise, only disguised to stop fans complaining (as much).
I wonder if it will help struggling clubs rebuild faster. One of the reasons some clubs continually struggle is because they are below-average in list management. And one of the reasons some clubs can continually play finals is because they are above-average at list management.

A mid-season draft is another opportunity for clubs who are good at list management to make their talent better -- and for poor clubs to, once again, screw up.

After saying that, I like having more player movement and a mid-season draft. I just don't think it magically allows a Carlton, St Kilda, or Gold Coast to suddenly get better.

Employing more capable Football Operations staff does that.
 
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I don't think what we traded for Bennell was that big a deal.

We moved down 6 spots (#16 -> #22) for Bennell plus #35. If you care about the whole draft points thing that rates Bennell as a #26.

The risk/reward of Bennell for #26 is OK.

In comparison, the Hawks traded #19 and #40 for Jono O'Rourke and #43 (rates O'Rourke as worth #18). O'Rourke is now gone from Hawthorn after 12 games in 4 years.

Why compare Bennell and O'Rourke? Both were #2 picks to expansion clubs, and their original clubs wanted to move them on after a few years. So both were rated pretty damn high with lots of potential but that potential never got realised.

Just looking at the raw facts of the two trades O'Rourke to the Hawks was just as big a bust that Bennell to us may end up being.

The reason the O'Rourke trade doesn't get as much attention as the Bennell trade is down to one thing: the Hawks have won plenty of games since that trade and we haven't.

Winning hides a multitude of sins.
Yes they are all very good points, Hawthorn did just as poorly out of that as we did.
 

sherrif

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And then to continue to back that punt way past the point that it’s viable.

And maybe, just maybe, for ******* the calf in the first place.
Yep ok. Makes perfect sense. A sport injury that cant be fixed by the reported best medical expert in that particular injury in the world is all freo's fault. An injury sustained at another club on a player who passed a physical from a professional medical practioner. Obviously the above poster has more medical knowledge that professionals who have spent years and years studying in their field. Um. Or maybe not.
 

PapaJ

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So if you saw a Tim Kelly running around in the WAFL you'd rather 'play the kids' you already have.

Let's remember he was drafted at pick 25 or so. Each year there's one or two mature agers taken before 30. Wouldn't you rather get them six months early and have an extra second rounder. Almost certainly.

I just feel clubs will be left behind if they don't get decent long term players from this. Doesn't have to be players as good as Tim Kelly either. Only clubs right at the top will use it as injury cover imo.

I feel its a mechanism to help clubs rebuild quicker in disguise, only disguised to stop fans complaining (as much).
Could be mistaken, but I remember someone from AFL house mentioning that helping struggling clubs would be a 'good outcome' of this whole idea. I don't think it has been all that covert, at least when they were taking about it a while back. Whether it does much in the long run is questionable, probably unlikely really.

In any case, most clubs will use it, as you indicate, as an early draft pick. It will be a minority that will use it as is ostensibly touted, that is to cover injury - it will be just a medium term list building/management mechanism, and a fairly minor one at that in the grand scheme of things.
 

M_rash

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So if you saw a Tim Kelly running around in the WAFL you'd rather 'play the kids' you already have.

Let's remember he was drafted at pick 25 or so. Each year there's one or two mature agers taken before 30. Wouldn't you rather get them six months early and have an extra second rounder. Almost certainly.

I just feel clubs will be left behind if they don't get decent long term players from this. Doesn't have to be players as good as Tim Kelly either. Only clubs right at the top will use it as injury cover imo.

I feel its a mechanism to help clubs rebuild quicker in disguise, only disguised to stop fans complaining (as much).
Using Tim Kelly as an example, clubs were looking at him for awhile and could have drafted him a year or two before Geelong finally did.

My main point is that I really like the list management/strategy aspect of the game. Being able to pick him up mid year and still have a second round pick sounds a little too easy for me. Would rather clubs need to invest in list management, scouts, etc and identify the talent AND take the punt at the draft or rookie draft, rather than keep an empty list spot and take a free swing for 6 months.

In Tim’s case, imagine if Geelong took him mid year... he’ld be at Eagles now anyway.
 
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Using Tim Kelly as an example, clubs were looking at him for awhile and could have drafted him a year or two before Geelong finally did.

My main point is that I really like the list management/strategy aspect of the game. Being able to pick him up mid year and still have a second round pick sounds a little too easy for me. Would rather clubs need to invest in list management, scouts, etc and identify the talent AND take the punt at the draft or rookie draft, rather than keep an empty list spot and take a free swing for 6 months.

In Tim’s case, imagine if Geelong took him mid year... he’ld be at Eagles now anyway.
Don't really see how it helps the weaker clubs either, every team has access to it.
For mine - i'd rather see them say bottom 4 teams can pick a player regardless and everyone else needs long term injuries. Retiring/starting with less players just defeats the purpose of the draft as it starts to favor the top clubs who can throw someone out the door.
 
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