Rumour Harley Bennell

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This is just my opinion, but the penalty for drug manufacturers/ traffickers isn't great enough.

Singapores drug laws may be a little extreme, but they do work as a deterrent.
 
kane249 said:
This is just my opinion, but the penalty for drug manufacturers/ traffickers isn't great enough.

Singapores drug laws may be a little extreme, but they do work as a deterrent.
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I reckon you should have been murdered if you drunk alcohol before the age of 18, that drug causes so many problems...

I'm not serious and I hope your not either
 

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PastiesPeake said:
No they don't and that's the problem. Increasing the penalty has done absolutely nothing to slow down drug trafficking
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Do you have figures that back this up? I can imagine that in such a poor country it would not be a big deterrent, but in a first world country like Australia I imagine that it would be a massive deterrent.

(not that I agree with it BTW)
 
Portugal is an interesting case. By having moved drugs from a criminal issue to a medical one - well, for up to 10 days supply (more than and it's trafficking and criminal), it results in more people seeking treatment, less juvenile drug use, a drop in street street value (good - it means less money for bikies and the mafiosa), a fall of drug related deaths from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008. and a drop in criminal justice workloads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Observations

I found this article an interesting read, particularly where it said that people aren't buying much of the "not as yet illegal" synthetic crap - why when you buy the real thing instead? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-overdose-in-portugal/?utm_term=.b760d62c1e46 That crap doesn't really come up much in normal drug stats (not illegal, some of it not yet recognised as a consumer drug), but some of it's really nasty.

On the other hand, reported usage in Portugal has increased. But previously under criminal law, the under reporting was bigger (why get stigmatised or risk being busted). So the verdict is out as to how much of an increase there really is and to what extent for any of the harder drugs as the prior data was poor, but as witnessed by the drop in deaths, the associated risky behaviours have dropped.
 
Judd2Sewell said:
Do you have figures that back this up?
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I dont think those figures would be available. How would one report on successful trafficking? I know that drugs are still being traffic from Asia at an alarming rate and increasing penalties hasn't worked.

Bali used to be the narcotics hub, may well still be, and they have the death penalty as we all know. Have a read of Snowing in Bali, fascinating read.
 
FreoMonocle said:
Portugal is an interesting case. By having moved drugs from a criminal issue to a medical one - well, for up to 10 days supply (more than and it's trafficking and criminal), it results in more people seeking treatment, less juvenile drug use, a drop in street street value (good - it means less money for bikies and the mafiosa), a fall of drug related deaths from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008. and a drop in criminal justice workloads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Observations

I found this article an interesting read, particularly where it said that people aren't buying much of the "not as yet illegal" synthetic crap - why when you buy the real thing instead? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-overdose-in-portugal/?utm_term=.b760d62c1e46 That crap doesn't really come up much in normal drug stats (not illegal, some of it not yet recognised as a consumer drug), but some of it's really nasty.

On the other hand, reported usage in Portugal has increased. But previously under criminal law, the under reporting was bigger (why get stigmatised or risk being busted). So the verdict is out as to how much of an increase there really is and to what extent for any of the harder drugs as the prior data was poor, but as witnessed by the drop in deaths, the associated risky behaviours have dropped.
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Totally agree


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
FreoMonocle said:
Portugal is an interesting case. By having moved drugs from a criminal issue to a medical one - well, for up to 10 days supply (more than and it's trafficking and criminal), it results in more people seeking treatment, less juvenile drug use, a drop in street street value (good - it means less money for bikies and the mafiosa), a fall of drug related deaths from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008. and a drop in criminal justice workloads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Observations

I found this article an interesting read, particularly where it said that people aren't buying much of the "not as yet illegal" synthetic crap - why when you buy the real thing instead? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-overdose-in-portugal/?utm_term=.b760d62c1e46 That crap doesn't really come up much in normal drug stats (not illegal, some of it not yet recognised as a consumer drug), but some of it's really nasty.

On the other hand, reported usage in Portugal has increased. But previously under criminal law, the under reporting was bigger (why get stigmatised or risk being busted). So the verdict is out as to how much of an increase there really is and to what extent for any of the harder drugs as the prior data was poor, but as witnessed by the drop in deaths, the associated risky behaviours have dropped.
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Yep they are a great test case and really if you're not harming yourself or others then what's the real issue?
 
Collins-Langford-Ayres said:
Where are your facts to back that up?
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Judd2Sewell said:
Do you have figures that back this up?
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This is from 2014 - http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...ibrary/FlagPost/2014/May/Illicit_drugs_report
Eight people have been arrested after $54 million worth of drugs were intercepted off Australia's coast last week.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-17/eight-arrested-over-drug-seizure/8035376
The men — a 47-year-old, a 49-year-old and a 58-year-old from China, a 29-year-old from New Zealand and a 56-year-old from Taiwan — were denied bail in Sydney's Central Local Court on Friday after being charged with the importation and possession of a commercial quantity of a border controlled drugs.

New highs for illicit drug seizures and arrests
https://www.acic.gov.au/media-centr...s/new-highs-illicit-drug-seizures-and-arrests
The number of national illicit drug seizures and arrests has reached new highs, according to a report released today by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission (ACIC).

In the 2014–15 financial year Australian law enforcement agencies made a record 105,862 national illicit drug seizures, weighing a total of 23.5 tonnes, with a record 133,926 national illicit drug arrests.

The Illicit Drug Data Report 2014–15 (IDDR) is a statistical report which provides governments, law enforcement agencies and policy makers with a robust picture of the Australian illicit drug market. It pulls together data from all state and territory police agencies, the Australian Federal Police, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection/Australian Border Force and forensic laboratories.

Minister for Justice, the Hon. Michael Keenan MP launched the report alongside ACIC Chief Executive Officer, Mr Chris Dawson, in Adelaide.

“This year, for the first time, the IDDR includes data from wastewater analysis,” Mr Dawson said.

“Wastewater analysis is recognised internationally and increasingly in Australia, as being the most effective, and arguably the only objective means of reliably measuring the level of use of a number of prominent illicit drugs.


Australia's fourth-biggest bust of MDMA nabs drugs worth $145 million
http://www.smh.com.au/national/aust...-drugs-worth-145-million-20161014-gs30g3.html
The Australian Federal Police and Australian Border Force have jointly seized 1.2 tonnes of the drug MDMA valued at $145 million in what's potentially the largest drugs bust of the year.


Australia nets biggest cocaine bust on record, 15 arrested
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/12/28/360-million-cocaine-seized-nsw-tahiti-bust
Members of the alleged criminal ring were swept up in a string of Christmas and Boxing Day raids, the culmination of a complex two-and-a-half-year investigation into suspected drug trafficking by commercial fishermen.


http://www.druglawreform.com.au/arresting_our_way_out_of_the_drug_problem
The origins of the Ice Flood
The monster methamphetamine seizure of November 2014 was an Australian record. Indeed it was the fourth Australian record inside three years. Since May 2011 the Australian record for methamphetamine seizure has increased fourfold going from a then record seizure of 240 kilos that month, to a new record of 306 kilos in July 2012, to a newer record of 585 kilos in November 2012, to this current record ice seizure of 849 kilos in November 2014. All of these were hailed by our leaders and journalists as proof of how well the war on ice was going.
However, this major, major blow had no effect other than to mark the beginning of the Ice Flood. Two-hundred kilo seizures and bigger are far more frequent now, but at the time such a seizure was regarded as extraordinary. But the record hauls kept coming because the flood of ice kept growing. Over the last several years, Australia has experienced a rising methamphetamine flood

The 2013/14 Illicit Drug Data Report records that 1.8 tonnes of amphetamines were seized at the border, and that five large detections had a combined weight of 530.9 kilograms and accounted for 29.3 per cent of the total weight; the largest, 203 kilos, was sea cargo from China to Brisbane; two more were sea-cargo China to Sydney; another sea-cargo USA to Melbourne; the smallest in air cargo from Mexico to Sydney. The flood comes in from all over the world, driven by the high price of ice in Australia. However, despite seizing almost two tonnes of amphetamines at the border, 2013/14 was only the second biggest year for such seizures.

The year with the record for the most ice seized at the border, with 2.14 tonne of amphetamines seized, was the previous year 2012/13, which included the two previous Australian record seizures. Before these two years, the largest annual totals seized at the border would be in the 200 kilos-300 kilos range, which is why the 240 kilo seizure in May 2011 was regarded as extraordinary.

Seizures at the border went up 1000% after June 2012, because the 'kitchens' where most of Australia's amphetamine was home-baked were taken out in the first years of the war on ice and there were large seizures of precursors. Price was forced up in Australia till the profits that could be made became extremely attractive to the global ice market and the flood started. The drug began flowing in from China, the USA, Canada, Mexico, the United Arab Emirate and from Southeast Asia. The war on ice caused the Australian methamphetamine market to be outsourced and globalised.

Big seizures of ice are common now. You read about them every week: the current week had 140 kilos of ice seized in Perth on 3 June, and 117 charges and 13 arrested in Charleville(!) on 5 June, and a bust of 448 kilos of ice in New Zealand.

As the old saw says: each year more people are arrested for drugs; each year more drugs are seized; and each year there are more drugs on the street.



 
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