Harley?

[GeeCat]

We didn't NEED Harley in the team last night

I'm interested then, as to who you would have played on either of the Saints talls given:

You seem to think Scarlett and Egan alongside a few make-shift talls in Milburn and Mackie (both of whom are much better playing the quarterback role and subsequently, in no need of playing out of their physical division) was enough.

You did notice Egan completely stuff himself playing against the aerobic-might of Riewoldt, no? His blowing-up against Hansen a few weeks earlier should have, at the very least, foretold that. You can't play him for a full four quarters on those blokes.

I think it's very easy to stand now and proclaim how much better any other player would have been other than Harley, and how we could have thrown Player X (Hunt?) on any of their talls (which numbered 4 at some stages), and hide behind the foil of the theory (given it never happened), but the structural need was there, and it demanded Harley's selection.

 

[CatFan79]

I'm interested then, as to who you would have played on either of the Saints talls given:

You seem to think Scarlett and Egan alongside a few make-shift talls in Milburn and Mackie (both of whom are much better playing the quarterback role and subsequently, in no need of playing out of their physical division) was enough.

You did notice Egan completely stuff himself playing against the aerobic-might of Riewoldt, no? His blowing-up against Hansen a few weeks earlier should have, at the very least, foretold that. You can't play him for a full four quarters on those blokes.

I think it's very easy to stand now and proclaim how much better any other player would have been other than Harley, and how we could have thrown Player X (Hunt?) on any of their talls (which numbered 4 at some stages), and hide behind the foil of the theory (given it never happened), but the structural need was there, and it demanded Harley's selection.

And his selection this week, knowing that Perrie is out?

 

[GeeCat]

And his selection this week, knowing that Perrie is out?

Agreeably questionable under the "3 talls" argument, but it may very well still stand to be given Adelaide's structure:

McGregor (my guess as the replacement - a stay at home FF who won't cover alot of ground, but has fantastic hands and can be a target), Stevens, Ricciuto (who will demand a big body), and potentially guys like Bock or Griffin.

You still haven't answered my question though.

 

[CatFan79]

Agreeably questionable under the "3 talls" argument, but it may very well still stand to be given Adelaide's structure:

McGregor (my guess as the replacement - a stay at home FF who won't cover alot of ground, but has fantastic hands and can be a target), Stevens, Ricciuto (who will demand a big body), and potentially guys like Bock or Griffin.

You still haven't answered my question though.

The time Harley spent on Reiwoldt and Kosi (played mostly in ruck and backline) didnt justify his need in this side.. After seeing Harley's form, Mackie or Milburn would have done a better job or at least broken even.

 

[martyk]

The argument is irrelevant really. Harley will play from now on if he is fit whether we like it or not, and I don't like it. I can accept an argument that we needed an extra tall last night but there wouldn't be another forward line in the league who would require that extra tall.

Harley was beaten by his opponents last night just like he was last year when he was able to play. Its not good enough to bring an underdone player into the most talented list in the AFL when they have a real flag chance. It's just plain wrong, captain or not. Harley will now be a passenger for the remainder of the season if he remains fit.... all because he is captain, NO other reason.

 

[Tonycam*]

Port is having the same problem with Tredrea . That guy doesnt seem to be the match winner he once was and because he is captain they leave him in the seniors. Tredrea hasnt got any better in the past 4 or so weeks hes been back playing in the 1's. unfortunately I think the same is going to happen with Harley

 

[MmkMrMackie]

Port is having the same problem with Tredrea . That guy doesnt seem to be the match winner he once was and because he is captain they leave him in the seniors. Tredrea hasnt got any better in the past 4 or so weeks hes been back playing in the 1's. unfortunately I think the same is going to happen with Harley

Lance Whitnall board.

 

[martyk]

Port is having the same problem with Tredrea . That guy doesnt seem to be the match winner he once was and because he is captain they leave him in the seniors. Tredrea hasnt got any better in the past 4 or so weeks hes been back playing in the 1's. unfortunately I think the same is going to happen with Harley

Harley has come in at the perfect time too, into a winning side. Lets face it, he got beaten last night and he got beaten in round 1 + by reports he played average in the 2's. Truely a foolish decision to make Harley captain and it looks like it may sting us in the arse. Who cares if he is a good leader?? If their opponent is beating them every week, whats the point??
I can almost understand Tredrea being appointed, for a number of years he was in the AFLs elite(ALL Australian), Harley had one or two really good years, no better.

It will be shame to see one of the most talented lists get restricted by bad decisions made at club level...

 

[Tonycam*]

Harley has come in at the perfect time too, into a winning side. Lets face it, he got beaten last night and he got beaten in round 1 + by reports he played average in the 2's. Truely a foolish decision to make Harley captain and it looks like it may sting us in the arse. Who cares if he is a good leader?? If their opponent is beating them every week, whats the point??
I can almost understand Tredrea being appointed, for a number of years he was in the AFLs elite(ALL Australian), Harley had one or two really good years, no better.

It will be shame to see one of the most talented lists get restricted by bad decisions made at club level...

Dont get me wrong though , I think he has something more to give , just wish he would get his touch back in the 2's , This is what I dislike about Bomber , he plays favourites. You watch what happens when King is fit , 1 or 2 weeks in the 2's and he will be back in.

 

[MmkMrMackie]

Harley has come in at the perfect time too, into a winning side. Lets face it, he got beaten last night and he got beaten in round 1 + by reports he played average in the 2's. Truely a foolish decision to make Harley captain and it looks like it may sting us in the arse. Who cares if he is a good leader?? If their opponent is beating them every week, whats the point??
I can almost understand Tredrea being appointed, for a number of years he was in the AFLs elite(ALL Australian), Harley had one or two really good years, no better.

It will be shame to see one of the most talented lists get restricted by bad decisions made at club level...

He's not that bad.

 

[hoody]

The argument is irrelevant really. Harley will play from now on if he is fit whether we like it or not, and I don't like it. I can accept an argument that we needed an extra tall last night but there wouldn't be another forward line in the league who would require that extra tall.

Harley was beaten by his opponents last night just like he was last year when he was able to play. Its not good enough to bring an underdone player into the most talented list in the AFL when they have a real flag chance. It's just plain wrong, captain or not. Harley will now be a passenger for the remainder of the season if he remains fit.... all because he is captain, NO other reason.

If we can cast our minds back to the aftermath of Round 5 for a moment. We have just been done by the Kangaroos, Win / loss record 2 and 3. Second cosecutive loss, following the Hawthorn heartbreak. Of course no-one really rated those teams much good at the time and there was a general feeling of impending doom. Many people, including some Cats diehards were calling for Bomber's head and he was in fact the bookies favourite at the time to be the next AFL coach to be sacked.
Five weeks later and I think it is fair to say that many (most?) of us have re-thought our position.The fact of the matter is that the boys have turned things upside down and our immediate future looks bright.
If the coach is to wear the lion's share of the blame when the Club is struggling, then surely he has earned praise for his efforts since.
The knockers, regardless of their club affiliations, must recognize that the ENTIRE "Geelong Machine" is currently doing it's job most admirably.
Martyk, I personally agree with almost all of your comment but at this point of the season I am happy to place my faith in the "Machine" continuing to make the right decisions for the Club.
Naturally, as a fanatic, I reserve the right to change my mind a later date!!!

 

[My5t3r10u5]

I think Harley deserves his place in the team if you look at his form against comparable players. We currently have 2 tall defenders (Scarlett and Egan), 2 tall forwards (Ablett and Mooney) and 2 rucks (Ottens and Blake). If I was selector I would definitely want a tall backup on the bench.

Our options are Harley, Hawkins, or Playfair. I can't think of any other key position players who would merit selection. Of these I think Harley is the leading contender. If Hawkins hits form in the VFL then there may be a case for dropping Harley, but talk of dropping Harley for Hunt, DJ or Selwood just doesn't work for me. I tend to agree that all three are playing better than Harley (although comparing players from different positions is not an easy thing) but this doesn't automatically mean they should play instead of him.

 

[Budha32]

I totally agree with the 3rd tall defender being Harley, both him and Scarlo can play short as well.

Andrew Mackie is not a tall defender. He would need to put on 10 kg minimum and work on his intensity at the contest(You either have it or you don't from my experience.) His kicking efficiency was 50 odd % against St.Kilda, hardly what we need from the "quarterback role" when the pressure goes on.

 

[TGTOA]

All those people saying Harley shouldn't be captain need to wake up! The guy has done more for the club as captain in six months than King did in all of his years as captain. The players are stepping up and taking responsibility and accountability for their actions and performance. The leadership group (led by Harley) have clearly laid down the law (see Dog's suspension), and its reaping dividends. And on Sunday night, before the players went in at half time, Harls was the one that pulled them together before leaving the field to have a few stern word before they go into the rooms.

Regarding his on field performances, it's fair to say they haven't been up to his old high standards. It was interesting to read Scarlo's column a few weeks ago saying that Harley would probably be playing on about the 4th best forward when he returned. But even if he's only serviceable as a player, the leadership he has brought to the team is immense. You can see the effects of his captaincy in the renewed attitude of the team in the last month of football.

 

[CatFan79]

All those people saying Harley shouldn't be captain need to wake up! The guy has done more for the club as captain in six months than King did in all of his years as captain. The players are stepping up and taking responsibility and accountability for their actions and performance. The leadership group (led by Harley) have clearly laid down the law (see Dog's suspension), and its reaping dividends. And on Sunday night, before the players went in at half time, Harls was the one that pulled them together before leaving the field to have a few stern word before they go into the rooms.

Regarding his on field performances, it's fair to say they haven't been up to his old high standards. It was interesting to read Scarlo's column a few weeks ago saying that Harley would probably be playing on about the 4th best forward when he returned. But even if he's only serviceable as a player, the leadership he has brought to the team is immense. You can see the effects of his captaincy in the renewed attitude of the team in the last month of football.

Its quite obvious the team pulled their finger out after Chappy's lashing of them in the media, right after the roos game....

Harley might be a great guy off the ground but he can't get on the park consistently and his best footy is passed him. A captain has to be one of the top performers and he struggles to make our best 22.

Steven King all over again..... You'd think the boneheads who have learned and made Chapman captain.

 

[sarah.13]

Harley is the captain,he is also a good player,it is only fair that he be given 3,4,5 games to regain his touch. Then and only then should we be judging him.

 

[CatFan79]

Harley is the captain,he is also a good player,it is only fair that he be given 3,4,5 games to regain his touch. Then and only then should we be judging him.

Its fair, yes. But he should regain his touch in the reserves like everyone else would have to. Do you think special treatment would help him get respect from his peers?? I doubt it!

 

[sarah.13]

Its fair, yes. But he should regain his touch in the reserves like everyone else would have to. Do you think special treatment would help him get respect from his peers?? I doubt it!

Respect from his peers? How do you think he became captain in the first place. Chosen by the coaching staff and the players,that's how.
He is a leader,has the respect of the players and that is more important than a few fumbles and mis kicks for the time being.If in a few games time he has not recapture form then he will be dropped I'm sure.

 

[allrighty]

It looked like the team was rapt to see him out there, and his mates will cut him some slack adn time to get back into good knick. Unfortutely it may be past him this time next year, if not earlier.

 

[CatFan79]

Respect from his peers? How do you think he became captain in the first place. Chosen by the coaching staff and the players,that's how.
He is a leader,has the respect of the players and that is more important than a few fumbles and mis kicks for the time being.If in a few games time he has not recapture form then he will be dropped I'm sure.

Sounds a bit naive Sarah but I hope you're right...

 

[crosby123]

Was voted in by the players.

 

[Selwood07]

Respect from his peers? How do you think he became captain in the first place. Chosen by the coaching staff and the players,that's how.
He is a leader,has the respect of the players and that is more important than a few fumbles and mis kicks for the time being.If in a few games time he has not recapture form then he will be dropped I'm sure.

That is exactly what he would expect! He is an outstanding character - nothing to do with earning respect - he has had it in bucket-loads for years. We all hope that he regains his form - he will be doing everything possible to do so.

 

[Cattery]

Respect from his peers? How do you think he became captain in the first place. Chosen by the coaching staff and the players,that's how.
He is a leader,has the respect of the players and that is more important than a few fumbles and mis kicks for the time being.If in a few games time he has not recapture form then he will be dropped I'm sure.

Very dangerous precedent I'd say, bringing someone in and hoping they gain form in the seniors rather then the reserves.
Given he's our captain, and apparently has the respect of the players, but this shouldn't alter the fact that you put your best twenty two "in form" players on the park each week, and in his case this is obviously not the case.

It might be okay to put up with a "few fumbles and mis kicks" at the moment while the team is performing so well, and it didn't hurt us the other night, but who's to say this will be the case in future if he does the same thing in a tight game.

The defence was doing the job so it wasn't as if he was needed urgently, which means he had plenty of time to find touch in the reserves rather then rush him in and then drop him if his form doesn't improve.

Just hope this doesn't come back and bite us on the backside somewhere down the track.

 

[cat in sydney]

Who's to say that having Harley in the side did not have a positive impact when we were challenged by the Saints coming up to half time?
Yes, we can say that his lack of form did not cost us because we are playing so well, but we could equally say that we responded so well to the Saints challenge because of the leadership he brought.
We could ask, what might have happened if Harls wasn't there? Maybe nothing would have been different, but maybe it would?
Imagine if we had have been chased down by the Saints and lost the game, people would have been complaining about a lack of onfield leadership etc. Then there would have been people saying, "why was Hunt playing, when we could have had the leadership and experience of Harley etc etc"
There is a case to say that he provided more than what we see from the stands.
There's no use playing 'what if' in this situation. In hindsight, nothing is resolved with this.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

Steven King all over again..... You'd think the boneheads who have learned and made Chapman captain.

If Chappie was captain this year, we'd all already be saying that the captain's curse had struck again - he just missed three weeks through injury.