Harley?

[CatFan79]

Who's to say that having Harley in the side did not have a positive impact when we were challenged by the Saints coming up to half time?
Yes, we can say that his lack of form did not cost us because we are playing so well, but we could equally say that we responded so well to the Saints challenge because of the leadership he brought.
We could ask, what might have happened if Harls wasn't there? Maybe nothing would have been different, but maybe it would?
Imagine if we had have been chased down by the Saints and lost the game, people would have been complaining about a lack of onfield leadership etc. Then there would have been people saying, "why was Hunt playing, when we could have had the leadership and experience of Harley etc etc"
There is a case to say that he provided more than what we see from the stands.
There's no use playing 'what if' in this situation. In hindsight, nothing is resolved with this.

Whos to say that if saturn wasn't aligned with pluto, we would have lost!!

 

[Cattery]

Who's to say that having Harley in the side did not have a positive impact when we were challenged by the Saints coming up to half time?
Yes, we can say that his lack of form did not cost us because we are playing so well, but we could equally say that we responded so well to the Saints challenge because of the leadership he brought.
We could ask, what might have happened if Harls wasn't there? Maybe nothing would have been different, but maybe it would?
Imagine if we had have been chased down by the Saints and lost the game, people would have been complaining about a lack of onfield leadership etc. Then there would have been people saying, "why was Hunt playing, when we could have had the leadership and experience of Harley etc etc"
There is a case to say that he provided more than what we see from the stands.
There's no use playing 'what if' in this situation. In hindsight, nothing is resolved with this.

Gotta say you're drawing a "very" long bow there CIS, working on that theory we could start throwing up all sorts of reasons or theories for why we lose at any time.
Think you could make a much better argument that had we lost narrowly the decision to play him may have contributed, was badly underdone and comprehensively beaten in most one on one situations he was involved in.
Far as I could tell he had zero impact on the game in any capacity; not blaming him really, should never have been out there to begin with.

 

[Brasil2007]

A mate of mine - a very astute football follower (for an Essendon bloke anyway) - rates Harley the best CHB in the competition, not so much for his ability to play on an opponent but for his ability read the play and drop into space. In the past, and I'm not sure how true it is now, Scarlett has said that he hates playing without Harley in the backline. I do think the backline looks more orderly when he plays.

He obviously isn't as quick as some of the younger forwards (Buddy and Roo) but I'd still be fairly comfortable with him on most of the other forwards in the competition.

Someone was talking about Mackie before. I think he does have that rabbit-in-the-headlights look sometimes when he has the ball and is under pressure. So does Ling. Again, it doesn't bother me enormously, they'll both continue to get better the more games we win and their confidence improves.

 

[martyk]

Who's to say that having Harley in the side did not have a positive impact when we were challenged by the Saints coming up to half time?

What a load of garbage!! Who was playing on Reiwoldt in the second quarter when the saints got back into the game? HARLEY!! He was well and truely owned by Reiwoldt until Egan came back and shut him out.

Harley wasn't playing the 4 games before Sunday when the cats performed better than they have for 3 years. If he had a part in our form turn around then good, he can stay on the sidelines where he belongs at the moment. You pro-Harley people need to but your centemental minds behind you. If he is such a great leader he should do what is best for the club and accept that his game doesn't hold up at the moment, and EARN his spot in the 2's.
Lets face it, if Richmond were 7 and 3 N.Brown would come straight back too.
Tom 'Passenger' Harley is going to by chafing my arse for the rest of the season now, while we have 3-4 blokes who miss out and should get a game....

 

[martyk]

A mate of mine - a very astute football follower (for an Essendon bloke anyway) - rates Harley the best CHB in the competition, not so much for his ability to play on an opponent but for his ability read the play and drop into space. In the past, and I'm not sure how true it is now, Scarlett has said that he hates playing without Harley in the backline. I do think the backline looks more orderly when he plays.

Your living in the past buddy.... Lets look forward not backwards. The guy can barely get up for games for christ sake. No player will perform at anything but below average unless they get a good string of games together anyway. Any defense these days who has 3 talls is kidding themselves, unless their all built / as fast as like Buddy Franklin. Speed is more valuable than height in todays defenders. You only need 2 talls to cover key tall forwards, no more. Even now we're seeing Campbell Brown beating Pavlich types... enough said, the guy is dead wood.. chop it down.

 

[Rosella]

Your living in the past buddy.... Lets look forward not backwards. The guy can barely get up for games for christ sake. No player will perform at anything but below average unless they get a good string of games together anyway. Any defense these days who has 3 talls is kidding themselves, unless their all built / as fast as like Buddy Franklin. Speed is more valuable than height in todays defenders. You only need 2 talls to cover key tall forwards, no more. Even now we're seeing Campbell Brown beating Pavlich types... enough said, the guy is dead wood.. chop it down.

Another Geelong player you don't like, eh?

 

[martyk]

Another Geelong player you don't like, eh?

Another productive response, eh?

 

[Brasil2007]

Your living in the past buddy.... Lets look forward not backwards. The guy can barely get up for games for christ sake. No player will perform at anything but below average unless they get a good string of games together anyway. Any defense these days who has 3 talls is kidding themselves, unless their all built / as fast as like Buddy Franklin. Speed is more valuable than height in todays defenders. You only need 2 talls to cover key tall forwards, no more. Even now we're seeing Campbell Brown beating Pavlich types... enough said, the guy is dead wood.. chop it down.

I'm not going to be convinced by ten minutes of play on one of the best players in the competition on his favorite ground after nine weeks out of the game that Harley's career is over.

As for Campbell Brown, Roo was in fact St Kilda's best player against Hawthorn, and statistically that game was better than his average this year.

I can see what you're saying, but I can also see why Bomber would have been keen to have Harley back for this game, even if it was just a matter of playing him off the bench. Whether he holds his place in the side this week given Adelaide's injury-depleted forward line is a different thing and you could argue both ways.

 

[martyk]

I'm not going to be convinced by ten minutes of play on one of the best players in the competition on his favorite ground after nine weeks out of the game that Harley's career is over.

As for Campbell Brown, Roo was in fact St Kilda's best player against Hawthorn, and statistically that game was better than his average this year.

I can see what you're saying, but I can also see why Bomber would have been keen to have Harley back for this game, even if it was just a matter of playing him off the bench. Whether he holds his place in the side this week given Adelaide's injury-depleted forward line is a different thing and you could argue both ways.

We have all obviously forgotten, but Harley has been terrible for the last year minimum. Brad Johnson has cut him up twice including once this year. The guy hasn't played a good individual game for a long, LONG time peoples.

The bottom line is that Harley is only in the side because he is captain. No coach would bring a player into a side as underdone as Harley for any other reason unless they are of superstar quality. Even they don't always come back eg N.Brown.

It's a load of $hit... I feel for Hunt, Johnson, Callen etc who would put in a better performance without question.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

We have all obviously forgotten, but Harley has been terrible for the last year minimum. Brad Johnson has cut him up twice including once this year. The guy hasn't played a good individual game for a long, LONG time peoples.

The bottom line is that Harley is only in the side because he is captain. No coach would bring a player into a side as underdone as Harley for any other reason unless they are of superstar quality. Even they don't always come back eg N.Brown.

It's a load of $hit... I feel for Hunt, Johnson, Callen etc who would put in a better performance without question.

All three do not play Harley's role.

 

[CF]

All three do not play Harley's role.

agree. Egan is our form CHB at the moment. Hunt, DJ, & Callen are small - medium sized backmen who play in the pockets

 

[Brasil2007]

All three do not play Harley's role.

So what if Brad Johnson beat him twice? Scarlett has beaten Fraser and Barry several times. By that logic they shouldn't get a game.

And Ling didn't have a good game for about a year up until about round five this year. Should we have gotten rid of him?

Again, I think you've got a point when you say maybe it'd be better if he came back through the VFL, but it's a long way to go from there to saying his career is finished.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Especially when Harley's injury was a finger injury - a freak of nature rather than a result of being injury prone.

 

[cat in sydney]

You pro-Harley people need to but your centemental minds behind you. If he is such a great leader he should do what is best for the club and accept that his game doesn't hold up at the moment, and EARN his spot in the 2's.

Hey dopeyk, tell me where I've shown myself to be 'pro-Harley'. At no point have I said he is in form, is playing well and even should be in the 22. All I said is that just as we can look at his game and say that he had a negative impact, we can equally look at it and not discount that he may have had a positive impact in other ways.
He has played one game since coming back after 8 weeks out, so why on earth would you expect him to towel up one of the premier CHF in the comp?
Talk to the other players out there with him, guys like Scarlett, Egan etc and see what their perspective is before you make all-encompassing calls like your making. You are a bystander, sitting there watching your tv and thinking you know what's best for GFC, when really you have no idea of what it takes to take a side to a premiership. (And before you get all high and mighty and say something like, "I've played at a higher level than you" like a little primary school kid, I dont' know either, so that is why I have been saying things like 'may' and 'might'... you may want to learn to be not so categorical when you clearly have no idea).

 

[Asty]

Harley played because Roo covers a lot of ground durning a match and egan was going to need a rest at some stage as he couldn't go the whole game with him. A bonus was that harls needs some match time and he is only going to get better as he gets a few more minutes under his belt. I think bomber took a risk and thought with the stk injuries he could afford to carry harley and get him some time on the pitch.
In the long run I think it will be good for egan to play along side harls as harls was one of the best going around a few years back (hopefully gets fit again as is only 27 isn't he?) and egan could do worse than to listen to what harley says in regards to playing as a backman.

 

[martyk]

All three do not play Harley's role.

Irrelevant now. No team needs 3 talls in defense, it's actually a weakness to do so and Harley is miles behind Egan and Scarlett.

Defense these days is about out-numbering the forwards before running the ball out with numbers / accurate kicks. Harley doesn't fit this criteria.

 

[MmkMrMackie]

Irrelevant now. No team needs 3 talls in defense, it's actually a weakness to do so and Harley is miles behind Egan and Scarlett.

Defense these days is about out-numbering the forwards before running the ball out with numbers / accurate kicks. Harley doesn't fit this criteria.

Tell that to a team trying to man up on Ottens/NAblett/Mooney/Hawkins

 

[hoody]

Surely it is time to give this thread a spell.
Like, love or hate it the powers that be have decided that Harley does have a place in the twenty two.
I understand that we are all entitled to our opinions on the matter, but some of the would be coaches on this thread speak with an authority that makes me wonder why they are not employed by the Club.
Really, it is now all up to the man himself.
God speed, Tom.

 

[DanA]

We have all obviously forgotten, but Harley has been terrible for the last year minimum. Brad Johnson has cut him up twice including once this year. The guy hasn't played a good individual game for a long, LONG time peoples.

The bottom line is that Harley is only in the side because he is captain. No coach would bring a player into a side as underdone as Harley for any other reason unless they are of superstar quality. Even they don't always come back eg N.Brown.

It's a load of $hit... I feel for Hunt, Johnson, Callen etc who would put in a better performance without question.

That just isn't true. Harley played well for the last 5 games including 1 on Reiwoldt if I remember correctly. He was crippled by injury for most of the year though. Harley played did play a reserve game and it wasn't as if he was unfit. He has been training the whole time.

 

[Selwood07]

Surely it is time to give this thread a spell.
Like, love or hate it the powers that be have decided that Harley does have a place in the twenty two.
I understand that we are all entitled to our opinions on the matter, but some of the would be coaches on this thread speak with an authority that makes me wonder why they are not employed by the Club.
Really, it is now all up to the man himself.
God speed, Tom.

It's only a forum - selectors don't take too much notice of what is posted here. if you are upset by some of the ranting and definitive statements just tune out or respond with your own considered opinion. Everyone thinks that they speak with some authority - except Hawthorn trollers who don't know what it means.

 

[a.f.k.a.y.o.p.]

If Chappie was captain this year, we'd all already be saying that the captain's curse had struck again - he just missed three weeks through injury.

We are saying that anyway..........

 

[Partridge]

Irrelevant now. No team needs 3 talls in defense, it's actually a weakness to do so and Harley is miles behind Egan and Scarlett.

Defense these days is about out-numbering the forwards before running the ball out with numbers / accurate kicks. Harley doesn't fit this criteria.

The funny thing is Andrew Mackie is taller than Harley and just about anyone else in our backline. As he's a running player no one notices how tall the stick insect actually is.

 

[martyk]

He was crippled by injury for most of the year though. Harley played did play a reserve game and it wasn't as if he was unfit. He has been training the whole time.

Aerobic fitness is not what I'm talking about. He is not match fit. You can't train to be smashing your body into the ground / other players + a players disposal / awareness just doesn't come back after a long stretch out of the game. Takes time to regain touch, as in any sport.

You are also supporting my point. The guy was crippled with injury yes, so why play him then? It isn't totally his fault that he is not as competitive as he should be, the club takes responsibility too.

 

[cat_fanatic]

The funny thing is Andrew Mackie is taller than Harley and just about anyone else in our backline. As he's a running player no one notices how tall the stick insect actually is.

Good point.

If they go with 'three talls'; Scarlo, Harls and Egan - Scarlett can just play a similar role to Mackie and play on a med forward and use his pace and creativity to set up attacks. Although if their small forwards start to cause problems we will be in a pickle as players like Jimmy will have to drop back.

 

[martyk]

The funny thing is Andrew Mackie is taller than Harley and just about anyone else in our backline. As he's a running player no one notices how tall the stick insect actually is.

Exactly. Such a high center of gravity for someone his weight being the reason he struggles so much in body on body contests. He is very easy to push and huge lack of upper body strength stops him from breaking tackles and laying good ones.