Recommitted Harry McKay [re-signed to 2023]

[Rich01]

Thats not how it works.

Hmm... Carlton made an offer to GC for Martin which GC didn’t believe was market value. They chose not to take it and Martin walked into the PSD.

The truth is the threat of the PSD weakens one sides negotiating power.

I wouldn’t worry though. There’s been no talk of Harry going to North. But if they are into an out of contract player, there’s no way they will be paying market value for them this year.

 

[La Dispute]

Hmm... Carlton made an offer to GC for Martin which GC didn’t believe was market value. They chose not to take it and Martin walked into the PSD.

The truth is the threat of the PSD weakens one sides negotiating power.

I wouldn’t worry though. There’s been no talk of Harry going to North. But if they are into an out of contract player, there’s no way they will be paying market value for them this year.

A 2nd and 3rd was fair for Martin given his form during the year - was dropped to the NEAFL, looked despondent and IIRC it was more like a first round downgrade than a straight pick swap. Gold Coast delisted Jarryd Lyons the year before, and traded Pick 11 for Pick 27 in 2019 - their player and pick valuations are all over the shop.

McKay in contrast is currently the best key forward in the league, and offering up a paltry second wont work in this scenario. The deal would need to be mediated, but realistically I could see North downgrading a few picks or compromising on a future first and change.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I’ll also argue that Dal Santo, Waite and Higgins are all far bigger names than Saad, Williams and McGovern.

Put it this way, Nick Dal Santo has played more games than all of Carlton’s “big names” put together.

Maybe in his prime he would’ve been a bigger name.

I expect Williams, Saad and McGovern to play more games for Carlton than Dal did for North. None of them have even had the chance. Disingenuous.

 

[Malifice]

Hmm... Carlton made an offer to GC for Martin which GC didn’t believe was market value.

Yeah - a second AND a third round pick. For a player we valued at 650k PA, and who hadnt shown that much in the 6 years prior.

He wasn't worth a 1st. PSD or No. Would you (or the Tigers) pay a 1st round pick for Martin (considering you valued Yarran pick 19)?

It's not like we offered a used condom and walked him to the PSD as you're suggesting. We made a fair deal, which was knocked back.

Talk of North offering him 1.2 or 1.3 million and then saying 'second round pick or nothing' are utter fantasy land stuff, with no precedent at all. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. The AFL would intervene, and it would wind up in arbitration.

 

[Rich01]

Yeah - a second AND a third round pick. For a player we valued at 650k PA, and who hadnt shown that much in the 6 years prior.

I have no skin in the game, but I know it’s human for supporters to undervalue opposition players and overvalue their own. Particularly on this board.

What you or I valued Martin at is a moot point.

The most important aspect in the situation was that Gold Coast valued him higher than a second and third rounder.

And Carlton could pick him up in the PSD if they tweaked his contract terms to make it unappealing for other clubs.

North could do a similar thing. This talk of arbitration is absolute rubbish.

And as for valuing Harry, I reckon he’s worth a top 5 pick as an out of contract player. And the Blues would get it. From any club that can’t use the PSD to strike a better deal.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

All moot, there’s no way on earth McKay is going to North. As has been shown time and time again, players with other options don’t go there. Playing in Hobart or in twilight games at Marvel in front of 20k people every week isn’t attractive. The only thing they’ve got to offer is success and they’re years off being able to offer that.

Cold hard facts.

 

[Malifice]

The most important aspect in the situation was that Gold Coast valued him higher than a second and third rounder.

Gold Coast can value him however they want. A second and third was more than fair for a player of his ability, who was uncontracted.

McKay is worth a lot more than a future 1st, but being uncontracted and the PSD in play, that's what he's worth.

 

[jooce8891]

Heard it from the same guy who told me Suns were getting Ellis, the suns have tabled a monster offer to Mckay with potential captaincy in the range of $7-7.5 Million over 6 years. AFL is also extremely keen for it to go ahead in the hope that the rest of the suns players get around the team.

Would be massive if it happens, but think he stays at the blues.

if that happens a player like luko or a rowell would have to be involved.

 

[jooce8891]

North’s second rounder will be close to pick 20. They may offer something else late in the draft to get the trade over the line.

But there should be no expectation that they should give a first rounder for him as they could walk him for free.

Of all fans, you should know the leverage the PSD card has.

you still dont get it lmao

 

[Rich01]

you still dont get it lmao

Hilarious that Carlton supporters are downplaying the value of the PSD card.

They’ve been telling us for years on this forum how valuable it is when they have held it.

 

[Jugada]

People need to stop with equating salary amount to trade value. There is absolutely no correlation to say spending $1M on someone means you need to give up more in a trade than someone you pay $700K. Different clubs are in different positions and just because say North have a s**t ton of salary space to dangle doesn't mean they have to give up more because of it

 

[Malifice]

Hilarious that Carlton supporters are downplaying the value of the PSD card.

They’ve been telling us for years on this forum how valuable it is when they have held it.

Like that time we held pick 1 in the PSD, and still gave the Eagles Pick 3, Kennedy and Pick 20 for Chris Judd?

When have we (or any other club) ever 'walked a player to the PSD' without tabling a reasonable offer?

Or are you referring to some fantasy land where clubs walk players to the PSD for nothing, and dont make reasonable trade offers based on the players worth?

 

[Malifice]

People need to stop with equating salary amount to trade value. There is absolutely no correlation to say spending $1M on someone means you need to give up more in a trade than someone you pay $700K.

Of course there is correlation between contract size and player value. Good players earn more than s**t ones.

 

[jooce8891]

Hilarious that Carlton supporters are downplaying the value of the PSD card.

They’ve been telling us for years on this forum how valuable it is when they have held it.

anddddddddddd ur still not getting it.

 

[Jugada]

Of course there is correlation between contract size and player value. Good players earn more than sh*t ones.

No there is nothing that suggests x amount of dollars = y in terms of trade. Of course good players are going to be more valuable than s**t ones on both of them. That's not the point though

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

He's really elevated him self this year bloke is a gun

Would definitely command a top 10 pick if he were to go.

If North really want him they split pick 1 and get two top 10 picks then use one on McKay

 

[Malifice]

No there is nothing that suggests x amount of dollars = y in terms of trade. Of course good players are going to be more valuable than sh*t ones on both of them. That's not the point though

If a club is offering 1.3 million P/A to a player, which of the following is most likely true:

a) The player is extremely good, and has a high trade value
b) The player is s**t, and the club are ******* idiots offering a Dusty contract to a list clogging spud.

Have a think, and then you might see why there is a clear correlation between contract value, and player ability (and thus also trade value).

 

[Jugada]

If a club is offering 1.3 million P/A to a player, which of the following is most likely true:

a) The player is extremely good, and has a high trade value
b) The player is sh*t, and the club are ******* idiots offering a Dusty contract to a list clogging spud.

Have a think, and then you might see why there is a clear correlation between contract value, and player ability (and thus also trade value).

Or C) A club have cap space to offer above market value to a player to want them to come but are not required to dish up any extra in a trade simply because they have money to burn.

The counter side of this type of nonsense is if Carlton are only prepared to stump up 700k for him then they can only expect 700k player type trade value.

The amount he eventually gets paid means two fifths of * all when it comes to trade value

 

[Malifice]

A club have cap space to offer above market value to a player to want them to come but are not required to dish up any extra in a trade simply because they have money to burn.

When did this happen exactly?

When did a player get a contract offer of say... 850k or more per season, but also not be considered worthy of a trade of a similar value (at least a 1st round pick).

Barring F/A of course. And even then, such a contract size would be a 1st round pick in compo.

Name one occurrence.

Ill then give you 20 when the opposite occurred. Where the 850k P/A+ player was traded for at least a 1st.

I'll save you time mate, you cant do it. You're living in a bizarro land here.

 

[gunnagunnagunna]

Like that time we held pick 1 in the PSD, and still gave the Eagles Pick 3, Kennedy and Pick 20 for Chris Judd?

When have we (or any other club) ever 'walked a player to the PSD' without tabling a reasonable offer?

Or are you referring to some fantasy land where clubs walk players to the PSD for nothing, and dont make reasonable trade offers based on the players worth?

I was surprised you didn't walk Judd into the preseason draft

On CPH2207 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Malifice]

I was surprised you didn't walk Judd into the preseason draft

On CPH2207 using BigFooty.com mobile app

It doesn't happen though. The PSD only exists mainly as a buffer for the AFL to fend off any restraint of trade cases brought by players in court. Teams rarely even take picks in it anymore, and players that nominate for the PSD invariably get to their club of choice regardless of where the team actually finishes (teams below them don't take the player).

In every case I can think of where the PSD was or has been in play (i.e. the team seeking a player in a trade finished bottom 3, or last) that team made an offer to the losing club for reasonable value for that player regardless of the PSD.

Clubs dont screw over other clubs at the trade table. Despite BF Posters year after year screaming 'PSD OR NOTHING' or 'WE'LL BEND YOU OVER AT THE TRADE TABLE' at each other for weeks pre any trade, the reality is clubs treat other clubs (and players) with respect, and in good faith.

When a player nominates a club, you do your best to get the deal done in good faith. Contracted players cost more (the club losing the player has the upper hand). Uncontracted players cost less particularly when the PSD is in play as a backup option (the player has the upper hand).

The closest we ever got was Adelaide last year with Jackson Hately, where they offered Pick 40 for a previous Pick 14, GWS insisted on something better (Pick 23 from memory) and he found himself going to the Crows in the PSD for nothing.

Hatley didnt exactly set the world on fire at GWS, and hasnt done much at the Crows either, so (so far) it looks like the Crows were on the money with the Pick they offered (even if it was still unders).

 

[Sphynx]

It doesn't happen though. The PSD only exists mainly as a buffer for the AFL to fend off any restraint of trade cases brought by players in court. Teams rarely even take picks in it anymore, and players that nominate for the PSD invariably get to their club of choice regardless of where the team actually finishes (teams below them don't take the player).

In every case I can think of where the PSD was or has been in play (i.e. the team seeking a player in a trade finished bottom 3, or last) that team made an offer to the losing club for reasonable value for that player regardless of the PSD.

Clubs dont screw over other clubs at the trade table. Despite BF Posters year after year screaming 'PSD OR NOTHING' or 'WE'LL BEND YOU OVER AT THE TRADE TABLE' at each other for weeks pre any trade, the reality is clubs treat other clubs (and players) with respect, and in good faith.

When a player nominates a club, you do your best to get the deal done in good faith. Contracted players cost more (the club losing the player has the upper hand). Uncontracted players cost less particularly when the PSD is in play as a backup option (the player has the upper hand).

The closest we ever got was Adelaide last year with Jackson Hately, where they offered Pick 40 for a previous Pick 14, GWS insisted on something better (Pick 23 from memory) and he found himself going to the Crows in the PSD for nothing.

Hatley didnt exactly set the world on fire at GWS, and hasnt done much at the Crows either, so (so far) it looks like the Crows were on the money with the Pick they offered (even if it was still unders).

Clubs have returned back to the PSD in the last 2 years.

Despite what you have said in this thread, the fact of the matter remains, Carlton used the PSD to recruit Jack Martin. You didn't meet GC's valuation of him and knew you could hold firm to your unders offer in the knowledge you could structure his contract in a way to ensure he had no other suitors in the PSD.

What Hately has done this year is irrelevant, Adelaide completely low balled GWS and walked him straight to the PSD. This is the a-typical test case.


If there's anyone missing the point in this thread it's you. You keep saying if North offered pick 20 "it would go straight to arbitration!", when has any trade ever gone to arbitration? Let alone recently?

If Hately's didn't last year, nothing will. Adelaide barely picked up the phone last year apparently.

You keep saying clubs don't screw over other clubs. Well, how many clubs trade the #1 draft pick also?

In this fantasy scenario, there's absolutely no gain for North to do anything other than lowball Carlton. The winning result could potentially be one of the best KPF's in the game AND the #1 draft pick.

 

[SonnyBoy1]

if that happens a player like luko or a rowell would have to be involved.

I asked that as well, the response was Suns are not willing to let go of their core youngsters and picks is where they hope it will get done.

 

[Skull Face]

Clubs have returned back to the PSD in the last 2 years.

Despite what you have said in this thread, the fact of the matter remains, Carlton used the PSD to recruit Jack Martin. You didn't meet GC's valuation of him and knew you could hold firm to your unders offer in the knowledge you could structure his contract in a way to ensure he had no other suitors in the PSD.

What Hately has done this year is irrelevant, Adelaide completely low balled GWS and walked him straight to the PSD. This is the a-typical test case.


If there's anyone missing the point in this thread it's you. You keep saying if North offered pick 20 "it would go straight to arbitration!", when has any trade ever gone to arbitration? Let alone recently?

If Hately's didn't last year, nothing will. Adelaide barely picked up the phone last year apparently.

You keep saying clubs don't screw over other clubs. Well, how many clubs trade the #1 draft pick also?

In this fantasy scenario, there's absolutely no gain for North to do anything other than lowball Carlton. The winning result could potentially be one of the best KPF's in the game AND the #1 draft pick.

In what world has jack Martin done anything to justify giving up a 1st round pick for in his time at Carlton?

 

[Jugada]

In what world has jack Martin done anything to justify giving up a 1st round pick for in his time at Carlton?

What he has done at Carlton has no relevance to what he was worth at the trade table when they picked him up