Harry O'Brien vs Patrick Ryder

[magpie_militia]

You could argue that...but in the end you still have to effect the spoil, no matter how many times it comes down your way.

Thats interesting. So a better stat would be a percentage of "effective spoils" as opposd to sheer volume of spoils.

FWIW, I think Myers will be a better player. However, I have O'Brien in front at this stage.

 

[Smyth94]

Thats interesting. So a better stat would be a percentage of "effective spoils" as opposd to sheer volume of spoils.

FWIW, I think Myers will be a better player. However, I have O'Brien in front at this stage.

To me, a spoil is a spoil, and Ryder was in the Top 5 in the AFL for spoils last year.

Maybe if you weighted the total amount of spoils by the amount of inside 50's the team concede's that would give you a clearer picture but then again, an inside 50 isn't always a short/long kick directed at the forwards.

As for your comment on Myers, the club sees him more of a long term midfielder rather than a half-back.

 

[smiddaz123]

Where do you get spoil stats from? I can't find them.

 

[GuzzLG]

Where do you get spoil stats from? I can't find them.

I used the "1%ers" stat from the AFL club sites.

1%ers include spoils, but probably also include other things. So it's not a perfect proxy.

 

[magpie_militia]

To me, a spoil is a spoil, and Ryder was in the Top 5 in the AFL for spoils last year.

Maybe if you weighted the total amount of spoils by the amount of inside 50's the team concede's that would give you a clearer picture but then again, an inside 50 isn't always a short/long kick directed at the forwards.

As for your comment on Myers, the club sees him more of a long term midfielder rather than a half-back.

Fair enough, and lets be honest, Ryder probably is better at spoiling anyway.

As for my comment on Myers, I have no idea why I wrote Myers. I meant Ryder

 

[Weiterbot23]

Ryder easily!!

Fev would kick 300 a year if he played on Harry everyweek.

 

[doppleganger]

Huh?

I just made up those stats did I?

You didn't make em up, but you dont even know what they are actually about!!

What is the definition of a 1% that your stats provider users??

Funny how you use a stat that you aren't even sure includes spoils to be the basis of why Ryder is a better defensive player and spoiler.

Contested possessions.....simple explanation, Ryder has runs in the ruck...ruckman often have high contested possession counts, so Ryder's figures are inflated.

Harry is coming along fine, the fact that this poll is even providing reasonable debate shows he is doing well.....a couple of years ago he didn't look like an AFL footballer!!

B.Reid will slot in and become the pies version of Ryder anyway, the tall utility who can play CHB or a roaming on-baller type role.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You didn't make em up, but you dont even know what they are actually about!!

What is the definition of a 1% that your stats provider users??

Funny how you use a stat that you aren't even sure includes spoils to be the basis of why Ryder is a better defensive player and spoiler.

I found this quite amusing myself. Sure was a lot of 'creative licence' used with those stats.....funnily enough, they tend to show Ryder as the winner.

 

[GuzzLG]

I found this quite amusing myself. Sure was a lot of 'creative licence' used with those stats.....funnily enough, they tend to show Ryder as the winner.

If you need to look to stats in the first place to decide whether Ryder or O'Brien is the superior player then I say give up on footy and follow another sport.

 

[doppleganger]

If you need to look to stats in the first place to decide whether Ryder or O'Brien is the superior player then I say give up on footy and follow another sport.

You are the one who brought in a random stat that you dont fully understand and tried to use it to help form a case for Ryder!!

Sure Ryder has more talent, could become the better player....but is he producing as much as Harry??

Talent is great but you also have to have the desire and drive to succeed, Harry has this, and has improved his game in such a short time so that now he is being compared to one of the supposed elite KP prospects in the land.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you need to look to stats in the first place to decide whether Ryder or O'Brien is the superior player then I say give up on footy and follow another sport.

Are you planning on taking your own advice or does the irony of your post fly completely over you head?

Now, if we can just find the person who brought the stats into it....

 

[GuzzLG]

Talent is great but you also have to have the desire and drive to succeed, Harry has this, and has improved his game in such a short time so that now he is being compared to one of the supposed elite KP prospects in the land.

Ryder started playing in defence for the first time in his life in 2007.

 

[GuzzLG]

Are you planning on taking your own advice or does the irony of your post fly completely over you head?

Now, if we can just find the person who brought the stats into it....

Here he is.

ryder averages for 2008 per game
5.4 kicks
4.6 handballs
4.1 marks
2.3 hit outs
2.1 tackles


o'brien
7.8 kicks
5.8 handballs
4.4 marks
0.1 hit outs
1.8 tackles

stats say they are very similar in their development , i would rate o'brien just ahead but he does play in a stronger side , both should be the centre of their clubs future plans over the next ten years . CHB is the cornerstone to success .

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In essence, at least that poster actually brought stats to the thread that meant something and werent just deciphered with bias.

I'd be more inclined to look for a certain other poster who brought stats into the thread and then broke them down according to how he thought they might actually be made up, based solely on....gee, I'm not sure.

Pure comedy.

 

[GuzzLG]

In essence, at least that poster actually brought stats to the thread that meant something and werent just deciphered with bias.

I'd be more inclined to look for a certain other poster who brought stats into the thread and then broke them down according to how he thought they might actually be made up, based solely on....gee, I'm not sure.

Pure comedy.

So your point about the irony of me pointing to stats is no longer valid and I can reiterate that anybody needing to refer to the stats in this poll is already struggling?

 

[smiddaz123]

Ryder started playing in defence for the first time in his life in 2007.

O'Brien would have only been playing defence at AFL level for about a year more. He's only 22.

 

[magpie_militia]

One thing is for sure, O'Brien is the value pick of the two players.

Ryder went at #7 in the 2005 draft
O'Brien went in the 2nd round of the ROOKIE draft in 2004.

O'Brien has been excellent value so far

 

[Lance Uppercut]

One thing is for sure, O'Brien is the value pick of the two players.

Ryder went at #7 in the 2005 draft
O'Brien went in the 2nd round of the ROOKIE draft in 2004.

O'Brien has been excellent value so far

no doubt, but let's face it, draft pick number becomes meaningless the day after the draft

 

[celtic_pride]

O'Brien easily, Ryder is an overrated, soft spud, who got destroyed by Nick Gill last year at the dome.

 

[Smyth94]

O'Brien easily, Ryder is an overrated, soft spud, who got destroyed by Nick Gill last year at the dome.

Yeah but that soft spud also took Mooney to the cleaners in a 99 point loss, beat David Hale (who kicked 8 goals against Geelong's defence), let in 0 goals against Fev in Rnd 3 (in the final quarter) among with other notable performances.

He would be Carlton's #1 young defender by a country mile

 

[smiddaz123]

Yeah but that soft spud also took Mooney to the cleaners in a 99 point loss, beat David Hale (who kicked 8 goals against Geelong's defence), let in 0 goals against Fev in Rnd 3 (in the final quarter) among with other notable performances.

He would be Carlton's #1 young defender by a country mile

Why do you keep preaching about a single quarter performance??

What about the other three quarters?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why do you keep preaching about a single quarter performance??

What about the other three quarters?

Probably cos it's all he's got.

I personally loved the hype leading up to the Ess/Haw game last year where Essendon supporters rattled on about how Ryder was fit and raring to go, and would be such a great match up for Franklin.....Buddy kicked 9 for the night.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Why do you keep preaching about a single quarter performance??

What about the other three quarters?

He didn't play on Fevola in the first three quarters. Mal Michael did.

 

[Smyth94]

Why do you keep preaching about a single quarter performance??

What about the other three quarters?

Probably cos it's all he's got.

I personally loved the hype leading up to the Ess/Haw game last year where Essendon supporters rattled on about how Ryder was fit and raring to go, and would be such a great match up for Franklin.....Buddy kicked 9 for the night.

He didn't play on Fevola in the first three quarters. Mal Michael did.

There's your answer.

Also it's fair to note that Fev kicked 5 goals in the third quarter and was on a hot streak, Ryder went on to him and shut him down.

 

[Smyth94]

Probably cos it's all he's got.

I personally loved the hype leading up to the Ess/Haw game last year where Essendon supporters rattled on about how Ryder was fit and raring to go, and would be such a great match up for Franklin.....Buddy kicked 9 for the night.

Yeah and Buddy also tore much more seasoned and better defenders than Ryder a new one in '08.

BTW...Our team left Ryder hang to dry in that match, pretty much left him out 1v1 and you just don't do that against Franklin, especially if you're a budding defender, let alone a seasoned one.

I'd love to see Ryder have a crack at Franklin in a better defensively structured team.