harvey captain of saints

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

another great appointment by the saints. 236 games, 4 b/fs, 2 brownlows, 3 ej whittens and 7 times all australian. his endurance and ball gathering ability are 2nd to none in the league, his ability to break free of opponents in a pack situation or heavy traffic may be the best of all time. he is courageous, tough, honest, modest and a loyal saint.

he is one of the great players of our generation and put simply an out and out CHAMPION.

if the rest of the st kilda team can display the same attributes as robert harvey does week in and week out, we will be in for a great year. well done saints on appointing the right man for the job.

 

[Bee]

STL
For once I will agree with you.

 

[dees01]

I am not doubting his ability to be a good captain, but if he was so great, why wasn't he appointed captain in previous years?

[This message has been edited by dees01 (edited 31 January 2001).]

 

[Mr Ripper]

*Cliche alert*

A richly deserved honour for an ornament to the game.

 

[Asgardian]

I'm still wondering about Blight's comments when he was Crowland coach, that Harvey just doesn't hurt the opposition

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Chris

(Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus)

 

[sainter]

Exactly right STL,

Banger was without doubt the best man for the job and richly deserved the honour.

He probably doesn't get the headlines that he's deserved because he has always shied away from the limelight. Having said that, Thommo mentioned at the press conference that he is quite vocal on the field and will be an inspirational leader much in the mould of a Nathan Burke.

New President, CEO, Captain, Vice Captain and hopefully the beginning of a new era.

Asgardian, I think we can both come up with hundreds of things that Blighty has said that we have sat back and wondered what the hell he was saying.

The fact is, he is a great coach and I won't be questioning his football knowledge or coaching ability. Or until we lose the first game like any true saints fan.

Dees01, we've had no stability in our coaching appointments but plenty in our captaincy ranks in recent times. Danny Frawley led the club through difficult times for 9 years, then Stewie Loewe and Burkey co-captained before Nathan took over the captaincy in his own right. Banger is only 29 and will hopefully lead the club for the next 4 - 5 years.

Mr Ripper, such an applicable cliche that I needed to borrow yours.

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Fortius Quo Fidelius

 

[Carey_is_King]

Originally posted by Asgardian:
I'm still wondering about Blight's comments when he was Crowland coach, that Harvey just doesn't hurt the opposition

Shit, I am agreeing with Chris, but that is exactly what I was thinking, and Blighty was right 100%


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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

chris & cik, blights comments were made in 1997. harvey played in a gf, won the brownlow, saints b/f, all australian, players association and every media award. blight targetted him as the man to stop in the grandfinal where harvey was battered all game. blight in this instance was definately wrong, just look at the score on the board.

 

[karnaby]

I'm licking my lips with anticipation at the prospect of new coach Blight teaching proven champion Harvs to hurt the opposition a bit more.
10% - 20% better that'll do me

BTW I've often felt that Harvey doesn't take quite enough toll around goal. You wont get any complaints at all out of me if Blight can add a couple of goals a game to Harvs stats.

 

[Hawkforce.]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty:
another great appointment by the saints. 236 games, 4 b/fs, 2 brownlows, 3 ej whittens and 7 times all australian. his endurance and ball gathering ability are 2nd to none in the league, his ability to break free of opponents in a pack situation or heavy traffic may be the best of all time. he is courageous, tough, honest, modest and a loyal saint.

he is one of the great players of our generation and put simply an out and out CHAMPION.

if the rest of the st kilda team can display the same attributes as robert harvey does week in and week out, we will be in for a great year. well done saints on appointing the right man for the job.

Which of the above attributes do NOT apply to Nathan Burke?

 

[Savatage]

Hawkforce, Nathan Burke is an outstanding captain. Last time he was appointed captain he was quoted as saying that he'd like to pass it over after the end of the year.

I don't think he'd begrudge close mate Robert Harvey from having the honour & adding to an awesome record as a champion AFL footballer.

Burke will continue to be the general that he is ON THE FIELD, Captain or not. With the last couple of years left, he can now concentrate on PLAYING FOOTBALL.

Thank you & Goodnight..


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Fortius Quo Fidelius

"I am the way, I am the light - I am the dark inside the night"
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[karnaby]

Good point Hawkforce.
Apart from some pretty impressive baubles there's not a hell of a lot between them.
I guess a couple of the points leading to the change were:
* Burkie is getting on a bit and may not command quite so much game time in the future as in the past.
* Basically, Burke is going to display the same on-field attributes whether he is capt or not.
* Symbolism - whether deserved or not, it is part of completing the process of putting the broom through the place.

 

[Frodo]

Above average player and thrives on possessions sometimes at the expense of his team. A champion no and how he won a Brownlow beats me!

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Do not follow where the path may lead.
Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

 

[GoEagles]

Beats me why St Kilda didn't give Harvey the Captaincy role two or three years ago.

 

[Pessimistic]

I always thought Harvey could be more damaging but he was in 1997 (a good reason why Saints did so well that year)

And the crows did target him in the GF.

Had the umpires 'protected' him a little more the result might have been different

 

[Hawkforce.]

Just to clarify...

I believe Robert Harvey to be a "champion"

I do not give that accolade lightly.

But if I was to nominate a player from St Kilda who I would want the Hawthorn players to emulate, it would be Burke.

I am not saying that the decision to make Harvey captain is wrong. It is just that Nathan Burke seems to me to be everything that you could ever hope for from a captain.

 

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

hawkforce, if i were to pick a player for the rest of the team to emulate it would be burke just ahead of harvey. the only reason he was replaced as captain was because everything at st kilda had to be changed. a big broom has been swept through the club, no one wants to look back. everything is new, vibrant and exciting and that positive image is being conveyed to all and sundry. it is a symbolic change to reflect that the old ways are gone.

frodo, i think you will find that all GOOD judges of footballers would label harvey a champion, he didn't win a brownlow he won two, perhaps if you took the time to watch games not involving the eagles you might appreciate the great players from other clubs.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Originally posted by Frodo:
Above average player and thrives on possessions sometimes at the expense of his team. A champion no and how he won a Brownlow beats me!

Here we go again Frodo. I agree with you.
I would add his ability to avoid/break tackles is quite spooky too, but a champion - no I don't think so.



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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[amazonstud]

Well done Saints.

I think Robert Harvey is a worthy captain and like Nathan Burke before him will give his all for the team and club.

As for Malcolm Blight's comments that Harvey doesn't hurt opposition teams enough that's very hard to do when the teams under the pump and you're on the ball nearly all game and helping out in the backline. Hopefully this year Harvey will spend more time up forward and kick quite a few goals.

 

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

cik, i'm interested to know what criteria you believe a player must possess to be called a champion.

[This message has been edited by StrengthThroughLoyalty (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

[sainter]

You make a lot of sense Hawkforce.

Nathan Burke will always be an inspiration to all at St Kilda. To a small extent, perhaps he has been a victim of circumstances and the symbolic nature of the changes going on at the club.

Robert Harvey is a different character to his good mate but has the necessary characteristics to do a great job.

Frodo and CIK, you are entitled to your opinion on Harvey. As wrong as I think it is, I could not be bothered having a long disagreement with you both and I for one consider myself very fortunate to see one of the greatest players in our clubs history make the transition to club captain.

I will say though, if his best pre-season in five years translates into on-field form, be sure to watch just how good Robert Harvey is. Consistently good!

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Fortius Quo Fidelius

 

[Carey_is_King]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty:
cik, i'm interested to know what criteria you believe a player must possess to be called a champion.
B]

A fair question, so I will attempt to answer it.
A champion;
Is skilled in all facets of the game, ie;

Kicking - Harvey rarely kicks more than 35 metres, (which is what I think Blight was referring to) and rarely kicks goals.
5 out of 10.

Handball - Gets a lot of them, but is rarely damaging with them.
6 out of 10.

Marking - Overhead marking is not his strong point. Can't remember ever seeing one actually.
5 out of 10.

Running - His aerobic capacity is remarkable, especially for someone who always appears to be about 6kg overweight.
10 out of 10

Tackling - Tackles as well as the next guy, but not his strong point.
6 out of 10

Evasion - Absolutely brilliant, and probably the best I have ever seen in this area.
10 out of 10

Ball gathering - His strong point, aided by his aforementioned aerobic capacity. The problem is that he often gathers possessions and then does not capitalise on them.
8 out of 10

Furthermore, a champion will;

Win games "off his own boot" - I doubt Harvey has ever done that.
5 out of 10.

Bring lesser players into the game - He tends to be selfish with his possessions (as most accumulators are).
5 out of 10

Encourages and coaches younger or inexperienced players, and often directs them where to position themselves - I can't really be certain of this one, so I will give him the benefit.
7 out of 10.

Total 67/100

Summary:- A very strong, evasive, running player who accumulates many possessions, but fails to use them to maximum advantage. In other words, he rarely hurts the opposition, though because of his possession counts, he must be negated to ensure he does not become a danger.

My opinion, and not entirely scientific, but I submit it for your comment.


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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

[This message has been edited by Carey_is_King (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

[jod23]

I think Harvey is a great appointment at captain but if i were choosing captains i just would have left it. Burke is the heart and soul of the St Kilda football club and it baffles me why they thought they needed to change it. But if you had to change it theres no better guy.

CIK - Interesting sum up on Harvey i was wondering could you do the same for Cousins? Im trying to decide who would be the better captain for our club Cousins or Jako and i thought your assesment seemed pretty fair. So what do you think of Cousins?


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I can handle the fighting, its the affection i cant stand and i dont mind us talking just dont try to touch my hand.

 

[Hit The Boundary Saints]

CIK
Nice try, but I think your premise is wrong to rate footballers on the basis on evenly weighted criteria. You weight the ability to kick the ball or handball the ball with the inate ability to get the pill. By this measurement system Darren Bennett would score highly where Greg Williams, who was unremarkable in virtually every way but had the ability to get it 40 times a game would not score highly.

Having said that, a couple of points.
Kicking I agree is not his strong point, and I have gotten frustrated at times that his finishing is not as good as it could be.
Handball I disagree with, as with bringing people into the game. In the past he has been critised for being too conscious of giving off the handball, which is something Alves tried to eradicate. At times his vision in breathtaking to place his team mate in a better position. He has the ability that few players have of being able to hold off to the last possible moment to release the ball.
Ball Gathering, as good as anyone going around, with the exception I think of Michael Voss and Paul Kelly who can trap the ball in a pack at full speed like few I have seen.
"Wins games off his own boot", granted not in the Carey league but very few are. However I have seen games where he has done this, an example is the game against WCE in Perth a couple of years ago when he got the ball out of the center 6 times in a row when Saints were 5 goals down (This was the game McIntosh got pinged in the last minute for dragging the ball back under him.)
"Brings lesser players into the game" see handball comment above.

Every player in the comp has his strengths and weaknesses. Not every player has to take high marks or kick 60 m goals. It is the intangibles that make a player great, and without doubt Robert Harvey is an all time great and champion.


Hit the Boundary Saints!!!!!!

 

[samm]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty:
hawkforce, if i were to pick a player for the rest of the team to emulate it would be burke just ahead of harvey. the only reason he was replaced as captain was because everything at st kilda had to be changed. a big broom has been swept through the club, no one wants to look back. everything is new, vibrant and exciting and that positive image is being conveyed to all and sundry. it is a symbolic change to reflect that the old ways are gone.

i just like to say that i am glad they did not pick peter everitt. Iwoner whether it was in his contract that he had to be captain? does anyone know?