Harvey

[Rob]

Did Suban add more than Palmer?

Fair question. Suban barely touched the ball, and looked pretty slow when he did.

 

[purplefrog]

Fair question. Suban barely touched the ball, and looked pretty slow when he did.

I would suggest Suban was a replacement for an out of form Duffield who was relegated to the Sub position in place of Palmer.
You would think the next move would be Duffield out and maybe Palmer back in again as Sub. However on today;s showing Suban doesn't deserve to hold his spot either.

 

[Scotland]

Pav ran with Priddis.

Idea had merit, but he is far more capable as a forward.

I think today shows we are still ahead of West Coast development wise, missing our number 1,2 arguable best players and we lose by a kick after the siren.

Mundy and Sandilands play, we win.

Didn't Crowley tag Priddis?

Pavlich played a portion of the game forward, but didn't have a great impact there or in the middle.

Anyway, at least your coach didn't bring in a tagger to use as the sub...

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Mundy comes back, Pav goes forward.

Who would have taken Pav spot in the midfield?

It's ridiculous if we are just waiting for one player before Pav goes forward.

Fair enough the period where Suban, Mcphee, Mundy and Barlow are out.

Id rather Mcphee in the middle for Pav as our forward line is shambles. Just seems another waste of a season, and a missing chance to develop some midfielders.

 

[Sman-21]

Who is our forward coach?

Whoever it is i place just as much blame on him as i do Harvey.
Our forward gameplan is all about counter attack an scoring almost pagans paddock style.
I can see why we dont Play Pav/Anthony forward as it doesnt suit that gamestyle.

Because we have no good tall marking options up forward, when we finally win a clearance it just comes straight back the other way.
So theres no point our midfielders even winning the clearances since our only ways to score are on counter attacks.

We hardly ever score the easy traditional way of players leading up an taking a mark.
Egirls scored so much easier simple kcik it to leading forwards hope they take the grab.

We have the players that can do that but wont allow them to.

Absolutely wrapped we are still in the 8
Still worried we are heading in the wrong direction with gameplan an player positioning.

Pav,Fyfe spending more time forward = very dangerous forward line

 

[believe_it]

Mundy comes back, Pav goes forward.

Who would have taken Pav spot in the midfield?

But does he?- today we had , de Boer , Lower , Fyfe , Broughton , Barlow, Mzungu - Where is the tipping point , how many more do we need? Hill should be playing a bigger role inside now. We need more than Mayne and Balla as our forward options. We need attacking power , we need goals

 

[electricfeel]

Something really needs to be done to our forward structure. Sometimes it works but a lot of the times this year it has completely failed. We need a target. Mayne is NOT our main target.

 

[PapaJ]

The planning / coaching (under great duress from injury) has been good and as Haze said in the radio, the team culture under Harvey is the best it's ever been.
The reason we lost (just) today was the players went into their shells and refused to take risks and move the ball quickly allowing WC far too much time to get their structures in place. Our kicking out from points was unimaginative and the way we refused to take the game on and move the ball down the middle at times was disappointing. Harvey said as much in his press conference so it's not like that's what he asked them to do. Pressure of the home crowd maybe? THey've generally been better away from Subi this year.

Thank goodness someone making sense around here. That bold bit I agree with wholeheartedly. Especially in the 4th quarter, we should have played the the last 30 minutes like we did the last 5.

But does he?- today we had , de Boer , Lower , Fyfe , Broughton , Barlow, Mzungu - Where is the tipping point , how many more do we need? Hill should be playing a bigger role inside now. We need more than Mayne and Balla as our forward options. We need attacking power , we need goals

There are so many things wrong with this and other posts you and your mates have made. Have you seen what hapnes to HIll when he plays as a genuine mid? - he disappears. Lower and Broughton played mid most of the day and were generally outmatched, especially when it came to getting the ball out with some effectiveness. MZungu played on Embly and I think did OK - if you've watched WC this year Embly has been a real weapon for them.

I like the idea of Pav playing fwd more too, but as said elsewhere, when he was there today, he did not look dangerous at all. As a mid, he gave us some control and clearance ability and we desperately needed that as much if not more than a fwd option that would have been only mildly effective. Finally, as I also said elsewhere, it's obvious as hell that Barlow is (unsurprisingly) way underdone and simply can't play midfield for that long a period, so he rests fwd a lot. That also makes it hard to take Pav out of there.

All said and done, I'll agree with this "Harvey has NFI because Pav doesn't play fwd" mantra when we have Sandi, Mundy, Barlow all fit and firing (not playing half fit or not at all as they are now). We have Suban in full flight which can release Broughton to the midfield close to full time too. Morabito and Fyfe (+ hopefully a Hill who's learnt to take a tag), there to swing in as the inside-outside options. Give me that a few weeks straight and then I'll agree we have no reason to play Pav in the middle except for quick 'boost' spurts.

 

[Nickos66]

Where's the Roast at the start of the thread title?

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Great idea to play Palmer. Let's bring in a guy who totally lacks the ability to hit a target, and play him against a team that uses the zone a fair bit.

BF brains trust working over time again.

 

[believe_it]

Thank goodness someone making sense around here. That bold bit I agree with wholeheartedly. Especially in the 4th quarter, we should have played the the last 30 minutes like we did the last 5.



There are so many things wrong with this and other posts you and your mates have made. Have you seen what hapnes to HIll when he plays as a genuine mid? - he disappears. Lower and Broughton played mid most of the day and were generally outmatched, especially when it came to getting the ball out with some effectiveness. MZungu played on Embly and I think did OK - if you've watched WC this year Embly has been a real weapon for them.

I like the idea of Pav playing fwd more too, but as said elsewhere, when he was there today, he did not look dangerous at all. As a mid, he gave us some control and clearance ability and we desperately needed that as much if not more than a fwd option that would have been only mildly effective. Finally, as I also said elsewhere, it's obvious as hell that Barlow is (unsurprisingly) way underdone and simply can't play midfield for that long a period, so he rests fwd a lot. That also makes it hard to take Pav out of there.

All said and done, I'll agree with this "Harvey has NFI because Pav doesn't play fwd" mantra when we have Sandi, Mundy, Barlow all fit and firing (not playing half fit or not at all as they are now). We have Suban in full flight which can release Broughton to the midfield close to full time too. Morabito and Fyfe (+ hopefully a Hill who's learnt to take a tag), there to swing in as the inside-outside options. Give me that a few weeks straight and then I'll agree we have no reason to play Pav in the middle except for quick 'boost' spurts.

So many things ? Oh go easy clearly I haven't your intellectual brilliance . Don't know who my "mates" are - do you mean the people who have views that don't correspond with yours.You seem to indicate Hill will learn to beat a tag by avoiding contest situations. Re Pav what is the point of having a full midfield if we have trouble scoring since it is points on the board that decide games. How is having effectively only 2 relatively short specialist forwards going to produce consistent winnable scores.Kennedy kicked 3 and we needed an equivalent.

Your rudeness and condescension indicates a definite emotive reaction to other views and as such is likely to lead to a bias of which you will be unaware . Therefore I believe the confidence in your own reasoning to be misplaced. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt as your post is structured as if written by somebody in a state of some intoxication.

 

[Clay Davis]

Great idea to play Palmer. Let's bring in a guy who totally lacks the ability to hit a target, and play him against a team that uses the zone a fair bit.

BF brains trust working over time again.

It's not about Palmer. Did Suban contribute? Was he match fit? We took another underdone player into a game, a game we had to win. We've done that a few times this year - Mzungu, Sandilands, Barlow, Ballantyne have all been brought back too early. Suban's three disposals and a clanger hardly gave us anything better than Palmer would have (or a number of other players on the list who are fully fit). I like Suban, but bringing him back after a 10 possession game in the WAFL was a mistake.

 

[Clay Davis]

There are so many things wrong with this and other posts you and your mates have made. Have you seen what hapnes to HIll when he plays as a genuine mid? - he disappears. Lower and Broughton played mid most of the day and were generally outmatched, especially when it came to getting the ball out with some effectiveness. MZungu played on Embly and I think did OK - if you've watched WC this year Embly has been a real weapon for them.

I like the idea of Pav playing fwd more too, but as said elsewhere, when he was there today, he did not look dangerous at all. As a mid, he gave us some control and clearance ability and we desperately needed that as much if not more than a fwd option that would have been only mildly effective. Finally, as I also said elsewhere, it's obvious as hell that Barlow is (unsurprisingly) way underdone and simply can't play midfield for that long a period, so he rests fwd a lot. That also makes it hard to take Pav out of there.

All said and done, I'll agree with this "Harvey has NFI because Pav doesn't play fwd" mantra when we have Sandi, Mundy, Barlow all fit and firing (not playing half fit or not at all as they are now). We have Suban in full flight which can release Broughton to the midfield close to full time too. Morabito and Fyfe (+ hopefully a Hill who's learnt to take a tag), there to swing in as the inside-outside options. Give me that a few weeks straight and then I'll agree we have no reason to play Pav in the middle except for quick 'boost' spurts.

Barlow, Ballantyne and Tarrant were all missing from last years best 22 in the Hawks final, and Sandilands was on one knee for the last three quarters, yet we persisted with Pavlich up forward in that game. We limped into the finals, but kept with our structure and won our first one.

If it's good enough for a final, why isn't it good enough for a regular home and away game? If we can get by against Sydney without Pavlich having a good game in the middle, do we actually need him there?

Harvey wants to say we should have taken the game on more - how do you move the ball quickly when there are no free targets up the ground? When your best forward target is labouring behind play because he's chased the ball all day?

This season is rapidly turning into another wasted one, and it is not because of injuries. Yesterday's game was winnable.

 

[sabre_ac]

Barlow isn't 100% match fit just yet neither is Suban.

Give those two a few more games, coupled with the return of Sandi and Mundy and then you'd expect Pavlich up forwad.

If Pav is still in the middle when these things come together (Or close enough) then there may be something to shout about.

 

[blue shark]

Mellington, Keplar playing would of given us the luxury of playing Pav midfield.
West Coke play tall, with Keplar, Mj, we would at least matched this.
Keplar could also play in the ruck, and has a bit of x factor in his play.
Mellington is hard at the contest, Duffield needs to find himself in the WAFL, just like the last time he didnt put his body on the line.
Require plans to kick out from points kicked against and kick specialist ie HURN.
When WC kicked out we did not put enough pressure on and they cleared our forward line with ease. where is our forward press, pressure is paramount these days, require forwards who can.
If we can learn from our mistakes, employ another assistant coach to help out
then top four next year.

 

[ausbacker]

The two moves (or non moves dependent upon position) were Pavlich forward and McPharlin on Kennedy. I couldn't understand what Harvey was attempting to achieve, especially with the Kennedy match up.

At the point in the game where Pavlich became a sole midfielder I could understand as West Coast was well on top in the middle and Fremantle needed his size to help create a contest where 50/50's were won with some regularity by the Eagles midfielders. Everything's easy in retrospect, especially in big games though aren't they?

It wasn't a surprise that Fremantle lifted when Nat Fyfe got more of the ball. That kid is something else.

 

[muckypup]

Pav ran with Priddis.

Idea had merit, but he is far more capable as a forward.

I think today shows we are still ahead of West Coast development wise, missing our number 1,2 arguable best players and we lose by a kick after the siren.

Mundy and Sandilands play, we win.

Agree with both points. Pav should be CHF.

 

[prattsta]

Harvey is just very stubborn. It really is as simple as that. He has his 'best 22' and he will back them in rain, hail or shine. He has his game plan and he will back that in as well. That's fine, there is nothing wrong with either of those things if (a) they're working or (b) they've worked in the past. I'm not sure Harvey can say either of those things...

Look, I am a fan of Harvey, but he needs to reassess what's working, what isn't working and move forward from there.

It's not about Palmer. Did Suban contribute? Was he match fit? We took another underdone player into a game, a game we had to win. We've done that a few times this year - Mzungu, Sandilands, Barlow, Ballantyne have all been brought back too early. Suban's three disposals and a clanger hardly gave us anything better than Palmer would have (or a number of other players on the list who are fully fit).

Ibbotson was another who came back in without a run in the WAFL from memory. He played as the substitute and had very little impact.

As an aside, if we're looking at a reason for why we aren't attacking and/or taking chances when coming out of defense, look no further than Ibbotson. It's been said before, but he is just a nothing footballer.

I like Suban, but bringing him back after a 10 possession game in the WAFL was a mistake.

Here is a game we can all play at home! Cover up the names from last weeks 'WAFL Watch' on the Fremantle website. Now read through and pick (a) who you think was the best player and (b) who should come into the side for the WC game. If you come up with Suban I will give myself an uppercut.

 

[malpaso]

As an aside, if we're looking at a reason for why we aren't attacking and/or taking chances when coming out of defense, look no further than Ibbotson. It's been said before, but he is just a nothing footballer.

That's just a false statement. Ibbo had one bad kick in, other than that he provided plenty of rebound 50 and moved well through congestion in the backline. Really carp statement.

 

[prattsta]

That's just a false statement. Ibbo had one bad kick in, other than that he provided plenty of rebound 50 and moved well through congestion in the backline. Really carp statement.

It's not really a false statement at all. Ibbotson is just not a creative/attacking footballer. Look, he plays the percentages and does the basic stuff, which is fine. He generally doesn't do anything wrong, which is a good thing from a defender. However, it doesn't really lead to much positive attack either.

I'm not saying he is rubbish, or that he should be dropped - certainly not over 1 poor kick in - I just don't think he should be 'the man' who kicks out and sets us up from defense. Given our game plan is at its most effective, when we're taking risks, running, attacking and taking the game on, is Ibbotson really the guy we should have leading the way out of defense?

 

[prattsta]

Barlow isn't 100% match fit just yet neither is Suban.

Give those two a few more games, coupled with the return of Sandi and Mundy and then you'd expect Pavlich up forwad.

If Pav is still in the middle when these things come together (Or close enough) then there may be something to shout about.

We've been waiting for the cavalry to arrive all year long Sabre. How many games does it take before we can start calling the 'short term fix' the season long game plan? Is 16 out of 22 enough?

 

[malpaso]

We've been waiting for the cavalry to arrive all year long Sabre. How many games does it take before we can start calling the 'short term fix' the season long game plan? Is 16 out of 22 enough?

There was an underdone Barlow in the middle so really only Pavlich, Broughton and Lower are at full fitness for us to put in the middle. Take Pavlich out of the middle yesterday and we'd have been pawned with Broughton and Lower being pummelled into the ground.

A fit Mundy and Barlow make a big difference to our midfield and overall game plan.

 

[Clay Davis]

Injuries are a part of the game. You have to build a side that is robust around injuries. Where holes are plugged by the team, not a single player, and where you maintain your best structure possible. Collingwood don't put Cloke in the middle when they're missing Swan and Thomas.

We had only four fewer inside 50s than the Eagles. They managed to score 57% of the time when they went inside 50 vs our 48% effectiveness. Glass and co had a field day.

 

[prattsta]

There was an underdone Barlow in the middle so really only Pavlich, Broughton and Lower are at full fitness for us to put in the middle. Take Pavlich out of the middle yesterday and we'd have been pawned with Broughton and Lower being pummelled into the ground.

A fit Mundy and Barlow make a big difference to our midfield and overall game plan.

What does that have to do with anything that I said?

Pavlich has been used as the stopgap in our midfield all season long. If it was a short term solution, why are we still doing it in round 18? Injuries or not, surely a better long term solution should've been found by now. Particularly if Pavlich is the key to our forward line.

Considering Broughton was given more responsibility in order to replace Mundy, who the hell has been given the opportunity this year to step up and replace Pavlich? Heck, even as a collective our other midfielders haven't been asked to step up.

 

[Clay Davis]

It seems to me we have a midfield that is two or three men deep. Which is not an improvement on last year.

Collingwood can lose Swan and Thomas and still win games comfortably.