Society/Culture Has Australia become the New India

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_Swoon

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#27
Well then you should be aware that a building of that scale would be founded on piles, hence the differential settlement (slump is an incorrect term) you hypothesised would not be an issue.
Of course it would, are you suggesting that piles don't move? A building of that size would also not have a monolithic base, it's very plausible that one section of it has slumped (yes, it's a correct if not strictly scientific term) to a greater degree than the rest.
 

Chameleon75

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#28
Of course it would, are you suggesting that piles don't move? A building of that size would also not have a monolithic base, it's very plausible that one section of it has slumped (yes, it's a correct if not strictly scientific term) to a greater degree than the rest.
I wouldn’t expect significant movement with the piles, they’d be load tested before signed off. I’d also expect greater impact than one wall at one level if it was a foundation problem.

Is the wall in question at a transfer level? That’s what I suspect.
 

_Swoon

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#29
I wouldn’t expect significant movement with the piles, they’d be load tested before signed off. I’d also expect greater impact than one wall at one level if it was a foundation problem.

Is the wall in question at a transfer level? That’s what I suspect.
Not sure, I'm assuming a foundation problem because all the doors are jammed shut including on the ground floor.
 

Chameleon75

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#30
Not sure, I'm assuming a foundation problem because all the doors are jammed shut including on the ground floor.
A failure of one or two piles is possible, hearing on the grapevine that it could be the core, all speculation at this stage.
 
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Tayl0r

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Moderator #31
I've seen buildings built directly on the sandstone without piles, maybe they did that and the rain washed some away.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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#32
New Italy probably. Lots of low level corruption with shady operators in the construction and property industry, a lot of whom are probably criminals.
and a new prime minister every other year.

I remember the gold old days when they Italians were the laughing stock of the world for having had about 16 prime ministers in about 16 years at one stage.

Neck minit!
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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#33


See how in the above chart the private sector wage growth is below 0 in several years? Well that means real wage rates have fallen in those years. After adjusting for inflation, Australian wages have gone up just 0.1% a year in the last decade.
Outside of promotion or moving internally into a position with a higher base salary, I've had one pay rise in about 5 or 6 years, that was last year, 1.25%.
 

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#36
A failure of one or two piles is possible, hearing on the grapevine that it could be the core, all speculation at this stage.
If that's true and a rc element has failed, it will be extremely difficult to justify not knocking down the building and starting again. At least subsidence can be partially rectified if the problem is due to soil or groundwater, no such luck with sub par concrete and steel.
 
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Present Not Past

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Thread starter #37
Upon what evidence are you blaming this upon the workers, and not the bosses in charge of the overall project?
That's a fair point. People in Australia who don't want to work will go onto the dole or any other government handout that they can wrangle. These morons will not be on worksites such as this one - unless of course they are working for cash.
But your point is correct though. It is ultimately the site managers who determine who comes onto the worksite.
 

_Swoon

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#38
That's a fair point. People in Australia who don't want to work will go onto the dole or any other government handout that they can wrangle. These morons will not be on worksites such as this one - unless of course they are working for cash.
But your point is correct though. It is ultimately the site managers who determine who comes onto the worksite.
It is ultimately the site managers who have responsibility of the site. Even if the cause of the problem turns out to be shit workmanship, the responsibility still lies with the builder who either failed to detect it or failed to rectify defective works.
 

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Moderator #39
I've seen buildings built directly on the sandstone without piles, maybe they did that and the rain washed some away.
I had piles once. Maybe they should have applied a cream to th foundations.
 

sorted

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#41
Outside of promotion or moving internally into a position with a higher base salary, I've had one pay rise in about 5 or 6 years, that was last year, 1.25%.
The last two years I've had minimal pay rises i.e. a pay cut in real terms. The major employers can do this because of the massive influx of overseas workers that has created an oversupply of skills. Parts of Melbourne such as Wyndham Vale and Tarneit have become the new India. As an immigrant group I think they are a real positive. They are law abiding, hard working, polite, family oriented and send their kids to school. There's just too many been allowed entry in a short space of time under bogus skills shortages categories. I know Indian guys who moved here 10 years ago who are struggling to find work now.
 

its free real estate

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#44
Enjoyable discussion from Chameleon75 and _Swoon. Thanks.

Regardless of whether this is a once off, what this signals to me is a massive underlying risk for property in Sydney and Melbourne (and elsewhere). New Melbourne apartments have a raft of minor problems, to potentially major ones (cladding). Even Canberra has shonky developers that are slapping up apartment blocks that are leaving owners pissed off with potentially serious issues.

With the property market in a downturn, and this Opel Tower issue - would you buy an apartment in Australia at current prices?
 

Chameleon75

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#45
Enjoyable discussion from Chameleon75 and _Swoon. Thanks.

Regardless of whether this is a once off, what this signals to me is a massive underlying risk for property in Sydney and Melbourne (and elsewhere). New Melbourne apartments have a raft of minor problems, to potentially major ones (cladding). Even Canberra has shonky developers that are slapping up apartment blocks that are leaving owners pissed off with potentially serious issues.

With the property market in a downturn, and this Opel Tower issue - would you buy an apartment in Australia at current prices?
There’s a lot of rumours floating around about this building, I suspect some is blame shifting and some is competitors talking down the competition, probably best wait until the dust settles.

But in general terms the industry as a whole has problems, this is an extraordinary case but there are failures occurring that’s too frequent to write off as one offs. I think a large part of it is the private building surveyor system, there just isn’t the independence with compliance.

A lot of media speculation about shonky builders and developers, thats true in the lower end of the market, but I haven’t seen too much of that with larger projects, there’s too much risk involved. Rather the screws are tightened on the consultants to find savings rather than cut corners. I’ve seen problems with subbies that are contacted to do a portion as a d&c, and even though the project engineers can’t find savings, the subbies engineers do. It’s pass the parcel until someone is prepared to wear the risk.

In relation to whether or not I’d by an apartment, I wouldn’t, not because of concerns about workmanship as I think most buildings are fine, but the contracts and regulations are weighed in favour of developer and builder. If apartment living appeals I’d buy a standard dwelling to rent out and lease an apartment, that my personal preference.
 
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