Society/Culture Has Australia become the New India

Well then you should be aware that a building of that scale would be founded on piles, hence the differential settlement (slump is an incorrect term) you hypothesised would not be an issue.
Of course it would, are you suggesting that piles don't move? A building of that size would also not have a monolithic base, it's very plausible that one section of it has slumped (yes, it's a correct if not strictly scientific term) to a greater degree than the rest.
 

Chameleon75

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Of course it would, are you suggesting that piles don't move? A building of that size would also not have a monolithic base, it's very plausible that one section of it has slumped (yes, it's a correct if not strictly scientific term) to a greater degree than the rest.

I wouldn’t expect significant movement with the piles, they’d be load tested before signed off. I’d also expect greater impact than one wall at one level if it was a foundation problem.

Is the wall in question at a transfer level? That’s what I suspect.
 
I wouldn’t expect significant movement with the piles, they’d be load tested before signed off. I’d also expect greater impact than one wall at one level if it was a foundation problem.

Is the wall in question at a transfer level? That’s what I suspect.
Not sure, I'm assuming a foundation problem because all the doors are jammed shut including on the ground floor.
 

Chameleon75

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Not sure, I'm assuming a foundation problem because all the doors are jammed shut including on the ground floor.

A failure of one or two piles is possible, hearing on the grapevine that it could be the core, all speculation at this stage.
 
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New Italy probably. Lots of low level corruption with shady operators in the construction and property industry, a lot of whom are probably criminals.

and a new prime minister every other year.

I remember the gold old days when they Italians were the laughing stock of the world for having had about 16 prime ministers in about 16 years at one stage.

Neck minit!
 

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32c8d257dcbceaaab2b64d6aa71172f8


See how in the above chart the private sector wage growth is below 0 in several years? Well that means real wage rates have fallen in those years. After adjusting for inflation, Australian wages have gone up just 0.1% a year in the last decade.

Outside of promotion or moving internally into a position with a higher base salary, I've had one pay rise in about 5 or 6 years, that was last year, 1.25%.
 
A failure of one or two piles is possible, hearing on the grapevine that it could be the core, all speculation at this stage.
If that's true and a rc element has failed, it will be extremely difficult to justify not knocking down the building and starting again. At least subsidence can be partially rectified if the problem is due to soil or groundwater, no such luck with sub par concrete and steel.
 
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Upon what evidence are you blaming this upon the workers, and not the bosses in charge of the overall project?
That's a fair point. People in Australia who don't want to work will go onto the dole or any other government handout that they can wrangle. These morons will not be on worksites such as this one - unless of course they are working for cash.
But your point is correct though. It is ultimately the site managers who determine who comes onto the worksite.
 
That's a fair point. People in Australia who don't want to work will go onto the dole or any other government handout that they can wrangle. These morons will not be on worksites such as this one - unless of course they are working for cash.
But your point is correct though. It is ultimately the site managers who determine who comes onto the worksite.
It is ultimately the site managers who have responsibility of the site. Even if the cause of the problem turns out to be s**t workmanship, the responsibility still lies with the builder who either failed to detect it or failed to rectify defective works.
 
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Outside of promotion or moving internally into a position with a higher base salary, I've had one pay rise in about 5 or 6 years, that was last year, 1.25%.

The last two years I've had minimal pay rises i.e. a pay cut in real terms. The major employers can do this because of the massive influx of overseas workers that has created an oversupply of skills. Parts of Melbourne such as Wyndham Vale and Tarneit have become the new India. As an immigrant group I think they are a real positive. They are law abiding, hard working, polite, family oriented and send their kids to school. There's just too many been allowed entry in a short space of time under bogus skills shortages categories. I know Indian guys who moved here 10 years ago who are struggling to find work now.
 

its free real estate

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Enjoyable discussion from Chameleon75 and _Swoon. Thanks.

Regardless of whether this is a once off, what this signals to me is a massive underlying risk for property in Sydney and Melbourne (and elsewhere). New Melbourne apartments have a raft of minor problems, to potentially major ones (cladding). Even Canberra has shonky developers that are slapping up apartment blocks that are leaving owners pissed off with potentially serious issues.

With the property market in a downturn, and this Opel Tower issue - would you buy an apartment in Australia at current prices?
 

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Enjoyable discussion from Chameleon75 and _Swoon. Thanks.

Regardless of whether this is a once off, what this signals to me is a massive underlying risk for property in Sydney and Melbourne (and elsewhere). New Melbourne apartments have a raft of minor problems, to potentially major ones (cladding). Even Canberra has shonky developers that are slapping up apartment blocks that are leaving owners pissed off with potentially serious issues.

With the property market in a downturn, and this Opel Tower issue - would you buy an apartment in Australia at current prices?

There’s a lot of rumours floating around about this building, I suspect some is blame shifting and some is competitors talking down the competition, probably best wait until the dust settles.

But in general terms the industry as a whole has problems, this is an extraordinary case but there are failures occurring that’s too frequent to write off as one offs. I think a large part of it is the private building surveyor system, there just isn’t the independence with compliance.

A lot of media speculation about shonky builders and developers, thats true in the lower end of the market, but I haven’t seen too much of that with larger projects, there’s too much risk involved. Rather the screws are tightened on the consultants to find savings rather than cut corners. I’ve seen problems with subbies that are contacted to do a portion as a d&c, and even though the project engineers can’t find savings, the subbies engineers do. It’s pass the parcel until someone is prepared to wear the risk.

In relation to whether or not I’d by an apartment, I wouldn’t, not because of concerns about workmanship as I think most buildings are fine, but the contracts and regulations are weighed in favour of developer and builder. If apartment living appeals I’d buy a standard dwelling to rent out and lease an apartment, that my personal preference.
 
Another high rise evacuation in Sydney, eerily similar circumstances to the Opal Tower as well

Peak building industry bodies are calling for a massive overhaul of the sector to address a number of "failures" as residents of a Sydney apartment block face uncertainty about when they will be able to return home.

Mascot Towers was evacuated on Friday night after engineers became increasingly concerned about cracks in the primary support structure and facade masonry of the decade-old building in the inner-south suburb of Mascot.

Residents were told to be ready to leave at short notice and a temporary structural support was urgently installed on Thursday after building management noticed the cracks were widening.

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian told reporters on Sunday the government wanted to "get to the root cause" and find out what had occurred.

"There was some speculation it could have been from things that happened in the near vicinity but we need to find out the cause before we know how to act," she said.
When asked if the NSW government would help displaced residents in the meantime, Ms Berejiklian replied: "We're getting to the bottom of what happened.
"The NSW government will hold everybody to account, that's our role," she said.
The Mascot cracks follow December's evacuation of the Opal Tower apartment complex in Sydney Olympic Park, which was evacuated due to cracking and reports of movement.

National president of the Builders Collective of Australia Phil Dwyer said the most recent incident has renewed its calls for a royal commission, particularly into the lack of regulatory compliance and a greater need for stronger consumer protections.
"It is serious, there is no doubt about it," he said. "We just need to take stock of industry, start with a clean slate and set it up properly."

Australian Institute of Building Surveyors chief executive Brett Mace said industry issues were not specific to NSW nor Mascot Towers, rather "it is symptomatic of a much greater problem - a building regulatory system that is failing across Australia".

Engineers Australia said the situation was further evidence that changes were needed in the building and construction sector.

"The evacuation of Opal Tower was a major wake-up call for NSW to get serious about reform," spokesman Jonathan Russell said in a statement.
"It is time to finally implement the changes agreed by the Council of Australian Governments in response to its inquiry into regulation of the sector."
Two days after apartments were vacated, Mascot Tower complex remains "wholly evacuated" due to ongoing and persistent cracking.
Some tenants have been offered the possibility of an escorted trip back inside to collect some personal belongings.

Sixty-four of the 122 units are in the partly accessible zone and tenants have been told they "may be accessed for a short period of time to collect personal effects, with an escort by the building manager" by appointment from Monday.
All of the other units fall in the non-accessible zone and cannot be entered at any time, along with car parks and recreational areas including a Thai restaurant, an IGA Express and a cafe.
Transport for NSW confirmed there was no impact on the airport rail line nor Mascot train station, which sits under the complex.
One resident, who did not wish to be named, said he used to be "quite proud" that he lived in one of the "best" blocks in the area. But on Friday night that all changed.
Some residents have been provided with prompts to Fair Trading NSW and the Salvation Army - including entitlements for strata owners and renters - and for those experiencing financial hardship as a result.

But Rose, who did not want to give her last name, said she was spending $225 a day on a hotel, and with no return date she's "a bit annoyed and out of pocket".
She said Mascot Towers building management said they would not reimburse her.
Daily updates will be provided via email with a meeting of the owners likely to be held mid to late in the week.
The consulting engineer has determined three access zones to be in place for the next five to seven days, according to an update provided to owners and occupiers on Sunday.
Mascot Towers building management declined to comment.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...uilding-sector-crackdown-20190616-p51y9f.html

Also props to Chameleon75 for correctly hypothesizing the problem with the Opal tower in this thread months before it was confirmed.
 

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A discussion was had on ABC News 24 this morning about all new to newish high rise apartment blocks. Warnings from some not to buy off the plan and not to buy into any complex that is under 10 years old since the warranties are generally only for 6 years.

I actually found it a bit disturbing to be honest.
 
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