Society/Culture Has cancel culture gone too far?

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Lethality

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Lethality

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Yeah but he's having a red hot go at being political himself.
I mentioned that he was against identity politics in his spare time. It doesn't sound like a valid reason to cancel someone.
 

Lethality

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Was he cancelled? Still got his job, yeah?
For now at least, but it's still cancel culture just like requiring NFL players to stand for the anthem. There shouldn't be consequences at work for valid political opinions
 

Lethality

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It's "valid" in that he should be allowed to have an opinion. Even if he is giving the opinion way outside of his expertise. And his argument is pretty much wrong.
Most people's political opinions are outside their expertise. That doesn't mean they should shut up and dribble.
 

Taylor

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As long as a lot of people can yell there won't be airspace for educated positions.

I don't think it's cancelling, I think it's targeted de-platforming and it's a good thing. Nobody should ever have to hear anything that disagrees with what they have been told is true. The development of minds is not about critical thinking, it's about adherence to the right line.

There are people making a lot of money making sure the chosen narratives are discussed and the wrong ones are shut down, gaslighted out and mocked.

I just hope those people look into what happens historically, if we are allowed to look at history, to the people who facilitate the takeover during a shift in paradigm. The power that used them has them removed.

Never fanatical enough, as with all cults.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Yeah but he's having a red hot go at being political himself.
Stop pretending to not understand it.

How can you be the "chief" of a website that relies on people spewing all kinds of nonsense while also tacitly approving of the censorship of folks who express slightly unorthodox views?

Practice what you preach.

Go through all the BigFooty members and remove anyone who doesn't agree with the current woke orthodoxy. It's all taboo so why give them a platform? Let's call it "accountability".

There's an entire conspiracy board devoted to people saying insane nonsense. Why don't you shut down all those folks?

You're OK with cancelling people in the wider world who rub against some of your political positions, but you wouldn't dream of enforcing those standards if it meant cutting BigFooty traffic in half.
 
Last edited:

CM86

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A non political lecture cancelled because the professor isn't into identity politics. Are we still claiming that it's just about accountability?

This is Dorian Abbot in January, talking about cancel culture and anti-anti-discrimination, and critical race theory.




It's uploaded to the YouTube channel For the Society for Academic Freedom and Scholarship. (SAFS).
Formed in 1992, they updated their main purpose in 2001 "as helping to maintain "freedom in teaching, research and scholarship" and helping to defend "high standards of excellence in academic decision making concerning both students and faculty."

They have an annual general meeting.
2014: Greg Lukianoff (president, FIRE).
2015: Janice Fiamengo (english, University of Ottawa)
2016: Donald Alexander Downs (political science, law, and journalism, University of Wisconsin–Madison)
2017: Jordan Peterson (psychology, University of Toronto; clinical psychologist)
2018: Gad Saad (evolutionary psychology; marketing, John Molson School of Business)
2019: Rachel Fulton Brown (history, University of Chicago) Interesting.
2020: Samir Gandesha (humanities, Simon Fraser University)


Here is Dorian's Quillette article from February.
‘More Weight’: An Academic’s Guide to Surviving Campus Witch Hunts

He became a founding member of the Academic Freedom Alliance AFA at the start of March. They do podcasts, and things.
You can donate as well.
You can also buy their books, under Recommended Reading.

None of this argues against any of his points. And it's not arguing that he shouldn't be able to give talks in his area of expertise. I'm just suggesting that it might be a little more deliberate than what the Newsweek article (which Dorian has also previously written an opinion piece for) portrayed it.
 

Eagle Wrath

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1st part of Peter Boghossian resignation letter as assistant professor of philosophy at Portland State University. Sad that this is now reality in educational institutions.


Dear Provost Susan Jeffords,

I’m writing to you today to resign as assistant professor of philosophy at Portland State University.

Over the last decade, it has been my privilege to teach at the university. My specialties are critical thinking, ethics and the Socratic method, and I teach classes like Science and Pseudoscience and The Philosophy of Education. But in addition to exploring classic philosophers and traditional texts, I’ve invited a wide range of guest lecturers to address my classes, from Flat-Earthers to Christian apologists to global climate skeptics to Occupy Wall Street advocates. I’m proud of my work.

I invited those speakers not because I agreed with their worldviews, but primarily because I didn’t. From those messy and difficult conversations, I’ve seen the best of what our students can achieve: questioning beliefs while respecting believers; staying even-tempered in challenging circumstances; and even changing their minds.

I never once believed nor do I now that the purpose of instruction was to lead my students to a particular conclusion. Rather, I sought to create the conditions for rigorous thought; to help them gain the tools to hunt and furrow for their own conclusions. This is why I became a teacher and why I love teaching.

But brick by brick, the university has made this kind of intellectual exploration impossible. It has transformed a bastion of free inquiry into a Social Justice factory whose only inputs were race, gender, and victimhood and whose only outputs were grievance and division.

Students at Portland State are not being taught to think. Rather, they are being trained to mimic the moral certainty of ideologues. Faculty and administrators have abdicated the university’s truth-seeking mission and instead drive intolerance of divergent beliefs and opinions. This has created a culture of offense where students are now afraid to speak openly and honestly.

I noticed signs of the illiberalism that has now fully swallowed the academy quite early during my time at Portland State. I witnessed students refusing to engage with different points of view. Questions from faculty at diversity trainings that challenged approved narratives were instantly dismissed. Those who asked for evidence to justify new institutional policies were accused of microaggressions. And professors were accused of bigotry for assigning canonical texts written by philosophers who happened to have been European and male.

At first, I didn’t realize how systemic this was and I believed I could question this new culture. So I began asking questions. What is the evidence that trigger warnings and safe spaces contribute to student learning? Why should racial consciousness be the lens through which we view our role as educators? How did we decide that “cultural appropriation” is immoral?

Unlike my colleagues, I asked these questions out loud and in public.


Continued
 

Lethality

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Lethality

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In your case, one outta two ain’t bad.

I reckon it’s a bit much and he’s being gracious about it. Good for him. He is sticking to his sh*t arguments.
Easy to say that he can keep speaking when you know that he is and will probably continue to be consequenced on your behalf. Under those circumstances, offering rationalisations like that he is still employed, or that he is wrong, or that he's not an expert, enable cancel culture just as much.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Even if he's deliberately looking to be a martyr, if that's what you're suggesting, that doesn't mean they have to indulge him.
No. He might not have any idea at all.

But it does seem that they're all involved in different alliance and society groups. Which also consist of contributors and editors of news and magazines and things, which write seemingly biased articles or opinion pieces about them and their groups. Which is then used in support of the groups.


But. They do have amazing academic credentials. And they're the ones who work in those fields.
Either he is truly passionate, or has been taken advantage of, or is doing it deliberately. But he is seemingly spending the majority of his time and resources, outside of his field.
 

Lethality

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On my behalf? What are you talking about?
You're getting what you want, people are having political opinions that you disagree with and they're being shut down.

No. He might not have any idea at all.

But it does seem that they're all involved in different alliance and society groups. Which also consist of contributors and editors of news and magazines and things, which write seemingly biased articles or opinion pieces about them and their groups. Which is then used in support of the groups.


But. They do have amazing academic credentials. And they're the ones who work in those fields.
Either he is truly passionate, or has been taken advantage of, or is doing it deliberately. But he is seemingly spending the majority of his time and resources, outside of his field.
Sounds like any number of academics or public intellectuals.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Sounds like any number of academics or public intellectuals.
Don't be dishonest.

You specifically raised it as an issue in this thread, because it doesn't sound "like any number of academics or public intellectuals".
If you want to appeal to ignorance, you can. But it shows you don't really support your position.
 

Lethality

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Don't be dishonest.

You specifically raised it as an issue in this thread, because it doesn't sound "like any number of academics or public intellectuals".
?? I raised this story because it's an instance of concern when people are shut down for their political views.

The 'any number of public intellectuals' refers to people who speak politically, or when it's not their area of expertise. For example Jordan Peterson.
 

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