Has Damian Hardwick's affair killed the successful Tiger culture?

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RJK Tiger

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So do you include the third man up rule in this too? Despite the fact that Geelong used a third man up more than any other team, primarily Blicavs, this was obviously just designed to stop Grigg's sheer dominance in the ruck yeah?


Coming from a Carlton supporter, I would think you of all clubs would understand the vindictiveness of the AFL when you challenge their power. They made you pay for 20 years after Elliott threatened to lock C7's camera's out of PP. They raped your club so bad they made you appoint Collins to President and then signed away your home and soul to be stuck out the TD, a ground which has never EVER felt like your home & to be quite honest your club has lacked the spirit and culture which made it once great and feared. Carlton still looks like a club with no home. Go back and re-watch your 90's footy at PP, it was a great groun & a great atmosphere. I still recall being there when Bradley kicked that amazing running goal against the WCE in 1995 - was probably the best crowd i had stood in till Richmonds Prelim against GWS in '17....


Also, the 3rd man up rule happened in March 2017. At that point we were a schlep, was before we were dominant.

If you can;t see how the AFL and its rule changes hurt richmond more than any other club then i cant help you mate. Your head must be so far up your pigs-ass to far to see beyond your own team.

FWIW, when the rule changes came in Justin Leppitsch was interviewed by SEN and was quoted as saying along the lines opf" he had a discussion with Hocking after last season and they discussed Richmonds defensive superiority when it came to manning the mark. Leppitsch was no longer at the tigers so said he wasn’t giving away IP".

If you can;t see how the rule changes hurt Richmonds 2017 style, then i dare say you don't follow the game enough to be commenting
 
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GudOnya

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Coming from a Carlton supporter, I would think you of all clubs would understand the vindictiveness of the AFL when you challenge their power. They made you pay for 20 years after Elliott threatened to lock C7's camera's out of PP. They raped your club so bad they made you appoint Collins to President and then signed away your home and soul to be stuck out the TD, a ground which has never EVER felt like your home & to be quite honest your club has lacked the spirit and culture which made it once great and feared. Carlton still looks like a club with no home. Go back and re-watch your 90's footy at PP, it was a great groun & a great atmosphere. I still recall being there when Bradley kicked that amazing running goal against the WCE in 1995 - was probably the best crowd i had stood in till Richmonds Prelim against GWS in '17....


Also, the 3rd man up rule happened in March 2017. At that point we were a schlep, was before we were dominant.

If you can;t see how the AFL and its rule changes hurt richmond more than any other club then i cant help you mate. Your head must be so far up your pigs-ass to far to see beyond your own team.

FWIW, when the rule changes came in Justin Leppitsch was interviewed by SEN and was quoted as saying along the lines opf" he had a discussion with Hocking after last season and they discussed Richmonds defensive superiority when it came to manning the mark. Leppitsch was no longer at the tigers so said he wasn’t giving away IP".

If you can;t see how the rule changes hurt Richmonds 2017 style, then i dare say you don't follow the game enough to be commenting
lol, yup Carlton's situation for the last 20 years was definitely all the AFL being vindictive and nothing to do with the club themselves stuffing it up.

Every rule change hurts multiple teams, if you want to play the victim card and cry about the ones that hurt Richmond and put on your tin foil hat over it then you have fun with that champ.
 

RJK Tiger

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lol, yup Carlton's situation for the last 20 years was definitely all the AFL being vindictive and nothing to do with the club themselves stuffing it up.

Every rule change hurts multiple teams, if you want to play the victim card and cry about the ones that hurt Richmond and put on your tin foil hat over it then you have fun with that champ.


LOL i remember the last 25 years mate - I recall hearing Carlton fans crying victim at the heavy punishments handed out to them. Losing their picks, especially the Priority Pick. I have a memory. Hell, remember hearing you a few weeks back cry foul over several bad decisions in the collingwood game too. Yeah undoubtedly Carton made a shitload of mistakes they continue to make, which is why you are still sucking. But, i had my head outside my own arse enough to see that when it all first went down -the AFL put their foot your throat to choke you out & ensure Elliott was gone for good. They were threatened by Elliott & Carlton as they were the last Vic club to own their own ground. Elliott spent a fortune updating PP to meet new standards, then they raised the KPI for an AFL ground requirements, fined you a ridiculous $1,000,0000 that literally bankrupted your club & made all the money spent on grounds redevlopment be worth naught. They knew what they were doing, they crippled you for 2 decades & you have been scrambling for relevance ever since.

The AFL has had so many times where they have targeted a club, s president (Elliott), coach (Ross Lyon, Hird, Dimma) etc to teach "Hard lessons".

Again, if you can't see how the rules directly were in relation to how Richmond played & were about breaking that down then i can't help you. It has even been spoken about how Hocking contacted Leppa once he left Richmond to find out his opinion on the standing mark in relation to Richmonds gameplan. This s**t is documented mate

Every change seemed to favour Geelongs gameplan of stop, start control footy. The standing of the mark rule is the most ridiculous rule i have ever seen to be quite honest.
 

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Sttew

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Somehow through all these changes, every one of them appeared to not hurt Geelong, if anything - helped them an awful lot. The guy running the rules back then was also applying for the head job at Geelong. When he then got that job, the role was given to the Geelong Coaches twin brother. You seriously can't make this s**t up.
The third man up rule at ruck contests crucified Blicavs at Geelong. He was the biggest proponent of the move. But did Geelong wallow and moan for years about that decision? No. And Blicavs simply reinvented himself as a versatile utility
 

GudOnya

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LOL i remember the last 25 years mate - I recall hearing Carlton fans crying victim at the heavy punishments handed out to them. Losing their picks, especially the Priority Pick. I have a memory. Hell, remember hearing you a few weeks back cry foul over several bad decisions in the collingwood game too. Yeah undoubtedly Carton made a shitload of mistakes they continue to make, which is why you are still sucking. But, i had my head outside my own arse enough to see that when it all first went down -the AFL put their foot your throat to choke you out & ensure Elliott was gone for good. They were threatened by Elliott & Carlton as they were the last Vic club to own their own ground. Elliott spent a fortune updating PP to meet new standards, then they raised the KPI for an AFL ground requirements, fined you a ridiculous $1,000,0000 that literally bankrupted your club & made all the money spent on grounds redevlopment be worth naught. They knew what they were doing, they crippled you for 2 decades & you have been scrambling for relevance ever since.

The AFL has had so many times where they have targeted a club, s president (Elliott), coach (Ross Lyon, Hird, Dimma) etc to teach "Hard lessons".

Again, if you can't see how the rules directly were in relation to how Richmond played & were about breaking that down then i can't help you. It has even been spoken about how Hocking contacted Leppa once he left Richmond to find out his opinion on the standing mark in relation to Richmonds gameplan. This s**t is documented mate

Every change seemed to favour Geelongs gameplan of stop, start control footy. The standing of the mark rule is the most ridiculous rule i have ever seen to be quite honest.
You remember me crying foul a few weeks back about umpiring in the Pies game do you? Care to quote those comments then? Or feel free to show me where I cried about any of the random stuff that you're dribbling over. Literally bankrupted? I'm not sure you know what either of those words mean.

You have a victim complex and can't handle the thought that the world isn't actually out to get you in a big evil conspiracy, you're just going back to being s**t like you were for near 40 years. Again, I'm sure some of the rules hurt Richmond yes, just like they hurt a bunch of teams as every rule change does. When teams find a way to get around the intention of the rules they get changed, just like laws. The fact that you honestly believe that the AFL can't stand earning millions of dollars off a successful Richmond and will do anything they can to stop you from being successful is straight up delusional. This sort of stuff is why most other club supporters don't like Richmond now, nuffies like you who cry about being hard done by and think that in an 18 team competition the only possible explanation for why Richmond "only" won 3 flags in 4 years is because of cheating and the establishment trying to bring you down.

It's pretty sad to be honest, put down the pipe mate.
 

RJK Tiger

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You remember me crying foul a few weeks back about umpiring in the Pies game do you? Care to quote those comments then? Or feel free to show me where I cried about any of the random stuff that you're dribbling over. Literally bankrupted? I'm not sure you know what either of those words mean.

You have a victim complex and can't handle the thought that the world isn't actually out to get you in a big evil conspiracy, you're just going back to being s**t like you were for near 40 years. Again, I'm sure some of the rules hurt Richmond yes, just like they hurt a bunch of teams as every rule change does. When teams find a way to get around the intention of the rules they get changed, just like laws. The fact that you honestly believe that the AFL can't stand earning millions of dollars off a successful Richmond and will do anything they can to stop you from being successful is straight up delusional. This sort of stuff is why most other club supporters don't like Richmond now, nuffies like you who cry about being hard done by and think that in an 18 team competition the only possible explanation for why Richmond "only" won 3 flags in 4 years is because of cheating and the establishment trying to bring you down.

It's pretty sad to be honest, put down the pipe mate.


You don't represent every Carlton supporter mate. I heard plenty. Actually felt bad for the supporters, but then blokes like you appear.


Carlton can go eat a dick for all i care. Enjoy being 9th & the 2 decades of disappointment. I actually was a Carlton member between 1995-2010 as i would go to the footy with my dad who is a Blue supporter, so i know exactly the tone of your supporters during that period. Was actually at the 9t5 Grand Final, Ha, imagine that. Ive seen Carlton win more Grand Finals than most of your supporters. You sure as hell felt hard done by and victimized aft the cap breach. I was there mate. I saw it. I heard it. I mean,your club was run by a dude who used to go around saying Pigs Arse to anyone who challenged h

But sure, your round 1-5 success has made you a gentle soul with no negativity in you now. god bless xxx

If you think the AFL is not a corrupt beast then you must art fairies and piss goblins. Seriously read the news mate, odd timing to be trying to suggest the AFL is not a piece of s**t who would lie and cheat if it benefited their big picture.
 

GudOnya

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You don't represent every Carlton supporter mate. I heard plenty. Actually felt bad for the supporters, but then blokes like you appear.


Carlton can go eat a dick for all i care. Enjoy being 9th & the 2 decades of disappointment. I actually was a Carlton member between 1995-2010 as i would go to the footy with my dad who is a Blue supporter, so i know exactly the tone of your supporters during that period. Was actually at the 9t5 Grand Final, Ha, imagine that. Ive seen Carlton win more Grand Finals than most of your supporters. You sure as hell felt hard done by and victimized aft the cap breach. I was there mate. I saw it. I heard it. I mean,your club was run by a dude who used to go around saying Pigs Arse to anyone who challenged h

But sure, your round 1-5 success has made you a gentle soul with no negativity in you now. god bless xxx

If you think the AFL is not a corrupt beast then you must art fairies and piss goblins. Seriously read the news mate, odd timing to be trying to suggest the AFL is not a piece of s**t who would lie and cheat if it benefited their big picture.
You seem pretty conflicted here mate, but happy to help you out. No I didn't cry foul about umpiring in the Pies game, and no I didn't feel hard done by after Carlton were caught cheating the cap. Yes heaps of clubs were doing it, but so were we and we got caught. Nothing to sook about there. Just like you have nothing to sook about in regards to the AFL targeting Richmond because they apparently hate making money. Of course the AFL is looking after their big picture, like any corporation does, but that doesn't involve trying to destroy their current golden goose.

Actually, you know what stuff it I'll concede. Yes the AFL are out to get you, they always have been. I actually overheard Gil at a pub recently laughing to Hocking about how when Geelong and Melbourne started the initial comp it was specifically to screw over Richmond because they knew they'd start a club 20 odd years later and wanted to have some time to plan it all. And here we are after 150+ years and all their hard work has finally paid off. Your mob is probably the hardest done by group in history now that I think about it, RFC probably going to be eligible for sainthood pretty soon like the rest of the martyrs.
 

RJK Tiger

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You seem pretty conflicted here mate, but happy to help you out. No I didn't cry foul about umpiring in the Pies game, and no I didn't feel hard done by after Carlton were caught cheating the cap. Yes heaps of clubs were doing it, but so were we and we got caught. Nothing to sook about there. Just like you have nothing to sook about in regards to the AFL targeting Richmond because they apparently hate making money. Of course the AFL is looking after their big picture, like any corporation does, but that doesn't involve trying to destroy their current golden goose.

Actually, you know what stuff it I'll concede. Yes the AFL are out to get you, they always have been. I actually overheard Gil at a pub recently laughing to Hocking about how when Geelong and Melbourne started the initial comp it was specifically to screw over Richmond because they knew they'd start a club 20 odd years later and wanted to have some time to plan it all. And here we are after 150+ years and all their hard work has finally paid off. Your mob is probably the hardest done by group in history now that I think about it, RFC probably going to be eligible for sainthood pretty soon like the rest of the martyrs.




I just love reading a Carlton supporter write crap as if they aren't a bunch of whiny bitches like everyone when they know they are getting a raw deal.

Yeah whatever, we all have been to Carlton games over the last 25 years, we see your lot pretty clearly - no matter what rose coloured glasses you are pretending to wear when reflecting 20 years later.....
 

RJK Tiger

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An interesting mirror of the Dimma situation. Celtics who finished Runner up in the NBA last season have just suspended their coach for 12 months for having a sexual relationship with a staff member while still being married.

So this is a club that is bigger in every way than Richmond & how serious they took it & how differently they reacted. So if people say this stuff must have no effect of the playing group/club, then they are clearly bonkers.
 

gouki88

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An interesting mirror of the Dimma situation. Celtics who finished Runner up in the NBA last season have just suspended their coach for 12 months for having a sexual relationship with a staff member while still being married.

So this is a club that is bigger in every way than Richmond & how serious they took it & how differently they reacted. So if people say this stuff must have no effect of the playing group/club, then they are clearly bonkers.
Not analogous - Udoka was apparently harassing the female staff member
 

RJK Tiger

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Not analogous - Udoka was apparently harassing the female staff member
That is not the case from what i read and heard


What did Ime Udoka do?
Udoka had a consensual romantic affair with a woman on the Boston Celtics’ staff. He’s facing a suspension for a violation of the Celtics’ code of conduct.

There has been a fair bit of gray and Richard Jefferson merely speculated that it must be non-concensual due to the reaction, but its in Bostons code of conduct that these types of things receive a 12 month suspension.

There is some talk of "unwanted comments" he made towards her.... at the moment what you are talking about has mainly been rumour due to people talking too much on social media, forums etc. The relationship was consensual & i perhaps it went sour and he said unwanted things to her. But that isn't what his suspension is for

So basically you are wrong, until proven right.

Worth noting also - he isn;'t even married, he is engaged

 

GudOnya

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I just love reading a Carlton supporter write crap as if they aren't a bunch of whiny bitches like everyone when they know they are getting a raw deal.

Yeah whatever, we all have been to Carlton games over the last 25 years, we see your lot pretty clearly - no matter what rose coloured glasses you are pretending to wear when reflecting 20 years later.....
Except I don't represent every Carlton supporter, remember?

Enjoy your sainthood mate.
 

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gouki88

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That is not the case from what i read and heard


What did Ime Udoka do?
Udoka had a consensual romantic affair with a woman on the Boston Celtics’ staff. He’s facing a suspension for a violation of the Celtics’ code of conduct.

There has been a fair bit of gray and Richard Jefferson merely speculated that it must be non-concensual due to the reaction, but its in Bostons code of conduct that these types of things receive a 12 month suspension.

There is some talk of "unwanted comments" he made towards her.... at the moment what you are talking about has mainly been rumour due to people talking too much on social media, forums etc. The relationship was consensual & i perhaps it went sour and he said unwanted things to her. But that isn't what his suspension is for

So basically you are wrong, until proven right.

Worth noting also - he isn;'t even married, he is engaged

Shams reported on it in a paywalled article, but I’ll quote and link.


Some members of the Celtics organization first became aware of the relationship in July, sources said. At that time, team leadership was led to believe by both parties that the relationship was consensual. But sources said that the woman recently accused Udoka of making unwanted comments toward her — leading the team to launch a set of internal interviews.
 

Lavender Bushranger

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I don't think the AFL implemented new rules out of spite towards Richmond.

I think they simply did it because the game was horrendous to watch.

Richmond's style during their reign was borderline unwatchable. Not because the results were so predictable due to their dominance - but because the way they played just sucked the skill, flow and rhythm out the game.

Football was never worse, than it was during that time.

Conversely, I can't remember it being more 'watchable' and entertaining than it has been since these rules were introduced. At least not since the 90s.
 

db26

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I don't think the AFL implemented new rules out of spite towards Richmond.

I think they simply did it because the game was horrendous to watch.

Richmond's style during their reign was borderline unwatchable. Not because the results were so predictable due to their dominance - but because the way they played just sucked the skill, flow and rhythm out the game.

Football was never worse, than it was during that time.

Conversely, I can't remember it being more 'watchable' and entertaining than it has been since these rules were introduced. At least not since the 90s.

You sure about that not according to the fans who own the game not the afl attendances have been poor doesn't back your theory one bit there is alot more fans now frustrated at the dictatorship and masters of cover ups then anytime before the afl.
 

matthew_s

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You sure about that not according to the fans who own the game not the afl attendances have been poor doesn't back your theory one bit there is alot more fans now frustrated at the dictatorship and masters of cover ups then anytime before the afl.

Not really like for like comparing attendances over the last few years to pre-COVID times.
 

Tim Evans Beard

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You sure about that not according to the fans who own the game not the afl attendances have been poor doesn't back your theory one bit there is alot more fans now frustrated at the dictatorship and masters of cover ups then anytime before the afl.

……………..

I have heaps of full stops. Take as many as you need and let me know when you need more.


……………………………………………………………
 

db26

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……………..

I have heaps of full stops. Take as many as you need and let me know when you need more.


……………………………………………………………

Is that best you could do ?? I guess being a Port supporter you have to hold on to something like that.
 

RJK Tiger

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Not analogous - Udoka was apparently harassing the female staff member


As of yet these claims have not really gone any further and the Celtics have stated that he was suspended for having an inappropriate consensual affair with a staff member which is against their own code of conduct. There does not appear to be anything too much more sinister about it - the unwanted words could have just been that she threatened to go public with their affair and he said no, etc.

As of right now, its very similar to what happened to Dimma.
 

RJK Tiger

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I don't think the AFL implemented new rules out of spite towards Richmond.

I think they simply did it because the game was horrendous to watch.

Richmond's style during their reign was borderline unwatchable. Not because the results were so predictable due to their dominance - but because the way they played just sucked the skill, flow and rhythm out the game.

Football was never worse, than it was during that time.

Conversely, I can't remember it being more 'watchable' and entertaining than it has been since these rules were introduced. At least not since the 90s.


The game is far worse to watch with the stand rule. How could anyone think that the stand rule and the ump abuse rule was going to make the game a better watch? It goes beyond logic to think those decisions were to make the game more "watchable"

And for case of point..... ratings were down all year as well as attendance. The GF ratings were awful compared to other seasons.



So if they did it to make it a better watch, they should have been fired as it clearly failed
 

Lavender Bushranger

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The game is far worse to watch with the stand rule. How could anyone think that the stand rule and the ump abuse rule was going to make the game a better watch? It goes beyond logic to think those decisions were to make the game more "watchable"

And for case of point..... ratings were down all year as well as attendance. The GF ratings were awful compared to other seasons.



So if they did it to make it a better watch, they should have been fired as it clearly failed
TV ratings are not a "case in point" at all.
 

gouki88

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The game is far worse to watch with the stand rule. How could anyone think that the stand rule and the ump abuse rule was going to make the game a better watch? It goes beyond logic to think those decisions were to make the game more "watchable"

And for case of point..... ratings were down all year as well as attendance. The GF ratings were awful compared to other seasons.



So if they did it to make it a better watch, they should have been fired as it clearly failed
There is no way to account for the amount of people who were able to watch it with friends / at the pub, which would have been a huge thing compared to recent seasons
 

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