Discussion Has Guernsey Technology Surpassed Australian Rules Football?

Hey FJGD folk,

On the latest podcast (arriving in your ears today) we touched on the topic of the technology of Player Issue jumpers and the market to make money in Australian Rules football.

Freight Train and I have spoken at length over this and for those who want podcast spoilers it's ultimately come to a head with the demise of BLK, ISC and to a lesser degree Nike all pulling out of guernsey manufacturing in the AFL.

The market to sell jumpers to a small percentage of fans (and what you get in a replica is just that, a low quality replica to wear) is so low compared to other sports and there is a limit of teams.

But, if you think back to the early 2000's every jumper was a clean cut jumper as it was just that, a jumper... but now the technology has grown that Player Issue's are a work of art, specially crafted materials and templates to give the ultimate athlete the edge.
Thousands of dollars go into the research and design.

But the market to spend this amount of money on AFL and make it back isn't there in 2020, in fact FT even went as far as to say he see's no benefit to being a manufacturer in our sport.

So, I pose the question to you all, is the Jeanie out of the bottle?
Can we grow with major brands and technology as it continues or are we as far as we can stretch our great game?

Will we see the 'major' brands walk away and we will have 'just jumpers' in the future with smaller brands (Sekem, Cotton On, CGR, Majestic, Classic ect) as the investment finally surpasses the return?

Over to you, 'ave at it.
 

Freshwater

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I actually didn’t think Adidas or Nike ever put out a great product, Adidas in particular changed the look of iconic club jumpers to suit their needs. Aussie rules jumpers were a thing of beauty in the wool era, we are never going back there, but some efforts by big brands in the synthetic era have been poor.
 
I actually didn’t think Adidas or Nike ever put out a great product, Adidas in particular changed the look of iconic club jumpers to suit their needs. Aussie rules jumpers were a thing of beauty in the wool era, we are never going back there, but some efforts by big brands in the synthetic era have been poor.
That's always been my biggest issue with Adidas
 

NM_Mitchell

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I actually didn’t think Adidas or Nike ever put out a great product, Adidas in particular changed the look of iconic club jumpers to suit their needs. Aussie rules jumpers were a thing of beauty in the wool era, we are never going back there, but some efforts by big brands in the synthetic era have been poor.
the late 90's early 00's nike (or whoever they contracted to make it) is still beautiful, look great/ clean, and the ones i've got from the era still feature prominently as training jumpers for me so good longevity.
 
the late 90's early 00's nike (or whoever they contracted to make it) is still beautiful, look great/ clean, and the ones i've got from the era still feature prominently as training jumpers for me so good longevity.
Yeah, the 2002-04 Nike was the perfect footy jumper
 

NM_Mitchell

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I mean jumpers now are probably all better, but it's the best for its time of any jumper. Which I know doesn't make any sense but I'll try explaining poorly

It's such a good jumper for its time that it's better than any other jumper has been in its own time. Lets argue Puma is the best in 2020, but Nike in 2002 standards is better than Puma in 2020 standards, cha feel?
 
I mean jumpers now are probably all better, but it's the best for its time of any jumper. Which I know doesn't make any sense but I'll try explaining poorly

It's such a good jumper for its time that it's better than any other jumper has been in its own time. Lets argue Puma is the best in 2020, but Nike in 2002 standards is better than Puma in 2020 standards, cha feel?
It depends what your rules are

Template, feel, material, fit, ect.
 

NM_Mitchell

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It depends what your rules are

Template, feel, material, fit, ect.
all of the above, but if it's the perfect jumper manufacturers wouldn't have strayed from that kind of jumper. I personally agree it's perfect for me as some plodder that wears it to his tuesday night ressies training purely because of how niche it is, but the perfect football jumper? nah that's a stretch because the new ones fit better/ harder to tackle, those nike ones are v thick which keeps a bit of heat in (grim for blokes like me that run hot). I'll pay it as the best ever template (possibly bias due to North success in it) and the replica feel is the best i've touched.
 

NM_Mitchell

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all of the above, but if it's the perfect jumper manufacturers wouldn't have strayed from that kind of jumper. I personally agree it's perfect for me as some plodder that wears it to his tuesday night ressies training purely because of how niche it is, but the perfect football jumper? nah that's a stretch because the new ones fit better/ harder to tackle, those nike ones are v thick which keeps a bit of heat in (grim for blokes like me that run hot). I'll pay it as the best ever template (possibly bias due to North success in it) and the replica feel is the best i've touched.
I say tuesday night but we all know ressies don't train tuesday oxox
 
Apr 30, 2015
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Hey FJGD folk,

On the latest podcast (arriving in your ears today) we touched on the topic of the technology of Player Issue jumpers and the market to make money in Australian Rules football.

Freight Train and I have spoken at length over this and for those who want podcast spoilers it's ultimately come to a head with the demise of BLK, ISC and to a lesser degree Nike all pulling out of guernsey manufacturing in the AFL.

The market to sell jumpers to a small percentage of fans (and what you get in a replica is just that, a low quality replica to wear) is so low compared to other sports and there is a limit of teams.

But, if you think back to the early 2000's every jumper was a clean cut jumper as it was just that, a jumper... but now the technology has grown that Player Issue's are a work of art, specially crafted materials and templates to give the ultimate athlete the edge.
Thousands of dollars go into the research and design.

But the market to spend this amount of money on AFL and make it back isn't there in 2020, in fact FT even went as far as to say he see's no benefit to being a manufacturer in our sport.

So, I pose the question to you all, is the Jeanie out of the bottle?
Can we grow with major brands and technology as it continues or are we as far as we can stretch our great game?

Will we see the 'major' brands walk away and we will have 'just jumpers' in the future with smaller brands (Sekem, Cotton On, CGR, Majestic, Classic ect) as the investment finally surpasses the return?

Over to you, 'ave at it.
* Genie
 
Jul 9, 2003
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This happened in the NHL.
Manufacturers were under pressure to come up with technology to implement into the hockey jerseys.
This made it impossible to support individual teams choosing their own supplier.
So the league sold the rights to jersey manufacturing for all of their clubs.
What then happened was a drastic drop in the quality of the replicas, while maintaining the development of the game worn product.
Here's a game worn jersey, embroidered logos on chest & shoulders, numbers sewn on.
Breathable material through the body of the jersey, reinforcing across the shoulders & elbows where pads sit underneath.
Reebok logo embroidered onto the back, and you can't see them, but there's also fighting straps, which hook the jersey into the pants so opposing players can't pull your jersey over your head. No Jock Tag on the hip.
1594503299308.png

This is a replica jersey
1594503991440.png

Logos are heat pressed onto chest and shoulders, made of a different fabric, which is the same across the whole jersey, no reinforcing on shoulders or elbows. Jock tag on the hip.

Maybe we're coming to the day when someone like adidas, Puma or Nike just takes over the manufacturing of all AFL clubs jumpers, with the rights to other merchandise thrown in.
 
This happened in the NHL.
Manufacturers were under pressure to come up with technology to implement into the hockey jerseys.
This made it impossible to support individual teams choosing their own supplier.
So the league sold the rights to jersey manufacturing for all of their clubs.
What then happened was a drastic drop in the quality of the replicas, while maintaining the development of the game worn product.
Here's a game worn jersey, embroidered logos on chest & shoulders, numbers sewn on.
Breathable material through the body of the jersey, reinforcing across the shoulders & elbows where pads sit underneath.
Reebok logo embroidered onto the back, and you can't see them, but there's also fighting straps, which hook the jersey into the pants so opposing players can't pull your jersey over your head. No Jock Tag on the hip.
View attachment 910627
This is a replica jersey
View attachment 910635
Logos are heat pressed onto chest and shoulders, made of a different fabric, which is the same across the whole jersey, no reinforcing on shoulders or elbows. Jock tag on the hip.

Maybe we're coming to the day when someone like adidas, Puma or Nike just takes over the manufacturing of all AFL clubs jumpers, with the rights to other merchandise thrown in.
Do you think that would be a good thing if we had one supplier?
 

mfcrox

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Do you think that would be a good thing if we had one supplier?

As someone who doesn't mind occasionally mocking up past guernsey, I would LOVE consistency in the templates and I'm sure Mero would too.

ONE template for all teams... no need to worry about who has large shoulder panels, small shoulder panels, side panels, no side panels, round collar, vee collar, toilet lid collar, etc.
 
Jul 9, 2003
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Do you think that would be a good thing if we had one supplier?
It would be easier for me, no doubt.
What I think we'd see would be better jumpers for the players, and worse jumpers for the fans.
 
It would be easier for me, no doubt.
What I think we'd see would be better jumpers for the players, and worse jumpers for the fans.
Interesting
 
Apr 20, 2017
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This happened in the NHL.
Manufacturers were under pressure to come up with technology to implement into the hockey jerseys.
This made it impossible to support individual teams choosing their own supplier.
So the league sold the rights to jersey manufacturing for all of their clubs.
What then happened was a drastic drop in the quality of the replicas, while maintaining the development of the game worn product.
Here's a game worn jersey, embroidered logos on chest & shoulders, numbers sewn on.
Breathable material through the body of the jersey, reinforcing across the shoulders & elbows where pads sit underneath.
Reebok logo embroidered onto the back, and you can't see them, but there's also fighting straps, which hook the jersey into the pants so opposing players can't pull your jersey over your head. No Jock Tag on the hip.
View attachment 910627
This is a replica jersey
View attachment 910635
Logos are heat pressed onto chest and shoulders, made of a different fabric, which is the same across the whole jersey, no reinforcing on shoulders or elbows. Jock tag on the hip.

Maybe we're coming to the day when someone like adidas, Puma or Nike just takes over the manufacturing of all AFL clubs jumpers, with the rights to other merchandise thrown in.
In terms of the difference though, I'd argue that Reebok replicas were not that bad. However, now since Adidas took over it obviously makes the Reebok replicas look so much better. The Adidas jerseys are great, however, the Fanatics ones I'm certainly not a fan of. They're good if it is all you want, but many jersey collectors I know of try to distance themselves from the Fanatics. The best explanation I can give to non-hockey fans is that the Adidas Authentic jersey is the standard guernsey with sponsors, whereas the Fanatics are just the guernsey with the team logo acting as the sponsor. This is a much better explanation than I could give.
 
Aug 8, 2008
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In terms of the difference though, I'd argue that Reebok replicas were not that bad. However, now since Adidas took over it obviously makes the Reebok replicas look so much better. The Adidas jerseys are great, however, the Fanatics ones I'm certainly not a fan of. They're good if it is all you want, but many jersey collectors I know of try to distance themselves from the Fanatics. The best explanation I can give to non-hockey fans is that the Adidas Authentic jersey is the standard guernsey with sponsors, whereas the Fanatics are just the guernsey with the team logo acting as the sponsor. This is a much better explanation than I could give.


The better analogy that relates to Australia is that the Adidas "authentics" are replica NRL jerseys

WT20JSY01M_Wests-Tigers-2020-Mens-Replica-Home-Jersey_1__596213161.jpg


The Fanatics version comes from Best&Less

936677-001.jpg-search
 

El_Scorcho

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This happened in the NHL.
Manufacturers were under pressure to come up with technology to implement into the hockey jerseys.
This made it impossible to support individual teams choosing their own supplier.
So the league sold the rights to jersey manufacturing for all of their clubs.
What then happened was a drastic drop in the quality of the replicas, while maintaining the development of the game worn product.
Here's a game worn jersey, embroidered logos on chest & shoulders, numbers sewn on.
Breathable material through the body of the jersey, reinforcing across the shoulders & elbows where pads sit underneath.
Reebok logo embroidered onto the back, and you can't see them, but there's also fighting straps, which hook the jersey into the pants so opposing players can't pull your jersey over your head. No Jock Tag on the hip.
View attachment 910627
This is a replica jersey
View attachment 910635
Logos are heat pressed onto chest and shoulders, made of a different fabric, which is the same across the whole jersey, no reinforcing on shoulders or elbows. Jock tag on the hip.

Maybe we're coming to the day when someone like adidas, Puma or Nike just takes over the manufacturing of all AFL clubs jumpers, with the rights to other merchandise thrown in.

I tend to agree that we might be moving towards a leaguewide deal long term. I've been really shocked that a brand like ISC can make money, given they don't even sell things like shoes or apparel really. The only problem will be that the likes of Collingwood and West Coast will complain that they can't negotiate their own deals, so I imagine any deal probably won't involve the sort of revenue sharing we see in US sports, because the AFL has zero interest in equity.

It might actually make it worth doing for a bigger brand like Nike, Adidas or Puma because they can template everything and get more bang for their buck across the league, with their branding very closely associated with everything the league does.

I also agree that we'll probably see cheaper replicas if that does happen, as happens in all the big US sports and now in a lot of soccer.
 

DiamondGuy

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I like Mero 's NHL and craegus ' NRL examples. It's easy to forget that we have that type of thing here already. We don't talk about these jumpers for obvious reasons but the following are official AFL products available right now:

STK10MX01.png GLN10SX01.png

They were never that popular but you could always get an "official AFL" cheaper version without the sponsors, ever since the early 90s.

If replicas become crappier, they will become less collectible, and perhaps PIs will become more collectible, which could actually be a cool outcome.
 
Last edited:
I like Mero 's NHL and craegus ' NRL examples. It's easy to forget that we have that type of thing here already. We don't talk about these jumpers for obvious reasons but the following are official AFL products available right now:

View attachment 911498 View attachment 911501

They were never that popular but you could always get an "official AFL" cheaper version without the sponsors, ever since the early 90s.

If replicas become crappier, they will become less collectible, and perhaps PIs will become more collectible, which could actually be a cool outcome.
The Crows Kmart jumpers were always terrible. You could tell them a mile away. The navy was no good to begin with but after a few washes it went almost purple.

Even as a kid I always made sure my parents knew I wanted the "proper" replicas. Have always been a nerd for guernseys.
 
Jul 9, 2003
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I was thinking about the opening question, and I have formed a different response.
Has Guernsey Technology Surpassed Australian Rules Football?
I'd say the requirements of Aussie Rules jumpers had, until recently, always surpassed the ability of manufacturers to provide a suitable product.
Now they've developed a suitable product for a sport where you have to run up to 20 kms a game, but also get tackled and thrown around like a rag doll.
The cost of producing these garments for such a small market of purchasers has meant the economies of scale are not there to make it viable.
I don't know if I am adding to the discussion or saying the same thing in a different way.
But at least now I won't be thinking about it when I am in a Zoom meeting at work and should be concentrating on our latest product release and it's unique market position.
 

LeeARM

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They were never that popular but you could always get an "official AFL" cheaper version without the sponsors, ever since the early 90s.

My first footy jumper was a K-mart replica, probably bought in 1997. It was woolen, with a stitched on sash and it had embroided patches for the AFL logo and the Speed Kills logo. It was actually pretty good quality but I remember not liking it because the players were wearing sublimated jumpers by that stage.
 
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