Has Jack Martin finally arrived ?

Metalcrusher

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Comical...
You tell me it's 'clearly false' that Betts is better than Castagna...yet you don't even know the stats that prove I am factually correct.
I would be daft to suggest otherwise that Castagna will do a lot more than Betts for the remainder of their careers....considering their respective ages!!
But I cant see Castagna surpassing Betts' career in its entirety.
81 goals V 600 ... um yeah Castagna would need a real wiggle on to surpass Eddie lo

Same Age
lhttps://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=15&type=A&pid1=1547&pid2=4123&fid1=O&fid2=O

Considering JC is only going at 1.1 a game ... he would need to play for a further 19 seasons .....
 

jezzajay

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81 goals V 600 ... um yeah Castagna would need a real wiggle on to surpass Eddie lo

Same Age
lhttps://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=15&type=A&pid1=1547&pid2=4123&fid1=O&fid2=O

Considering JC is only going at 1.1 a game ... he would need to play for a further 19 seasons .....
Yeah but... because Richmond won the most recent premiership than they're always right...according to them.
And apparently kicking goals isn't important anymore - despite highest score wins!
 

Do the Dew

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Comical...
You tell me it's 'clearly false' that Betts is better than Castagna...yet you don't even know the stats that prove I am factually correct.
I would be daft to suggest otherwise that Castagna will do a lot more than Betts for the remainder of their careers....considering their respective ages!!
But I cant see Castagna surpassing Betts' career in its entirety.
Using stats, you could argue that Mitchell is better than Dusty cause Mitchell gets more possessions and the key metric for midfielders is possessions. But in that case, and I’d argue in Castagna/Betts case, those stats are misleading.

Castagna’s ‘individual’ ie. his own player accolades, goal totals, will very likely not get close to Betts. But as a career, I’d take Castagna’s 2 flags and being an integral part in them as the manic forward pressure player in our pressure game plan in a heartbeat, and likely so would Betts


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Do the Dew

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Yeah but... because Richmond won the most recent premiership than they're always right...according to them.
And apparently kicking goals isn't important anymore - despite highest score wins!
Lmao you’ve missed the point. The argument is for 2020 and you brought in an old, slow, small forward who’s best years are well behind him. Wasn’t Betts dropped a couple of times in a struggling Adelaide team?? But somehow he’s going to have a better year than the small forward who’s held down a spot in the top team of the last 3 years. That’s madness.


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jooce8891

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Led and carried by old timers Murphy, Kreuzer, Curnow, and formerly Thomas.

Younger curnow and Docherty permanently injured, Mudguts McGovern still tubs. Newnes?, Williamson?, Stocker?, Cunningham? Are they even players.

Marchbank and Kennedy are average, Jones and Martin flaky, Betts old and slowing down.

You guys have had a permanently “young” group for the last 7 years, has to change eventually and you better hope you get results or you’ll be in the muck again.


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please stop talking about carlton you have ZERO clue.
 

jezzajay

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Lmao you’ve missed the point. The argument is for 2020 and you brought in an old, slow, small forward who’s best years are well behind him. Wasn’t Betts dropped a couple of times in a struggling Adelaide team?? But somehow he’s going to have a better year than the small forward who’s held down a spot in the top team of the last 3 years. That’s madness.


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Betts...dropped due to a lack of form by Adelaide...yes a worse team than Richmond.
Yet still has better stats and year than Castagna...
Take away the premiership and Castagna's year would be nothing but a blip on the AFL radar.
Yet Betts continues to provide the highlights and goals that Castagna doesn't provide - and Betts isn't even in his prime...the old, slow, small forward who's ten times better than someone a decade younger!

Didn't realize we were predicting the future here...just basing the conversation on what we have in front of us - which are facts that again prove Betts is the better player.

As for Jack Martin...he's likely to be the better player out of all three in 2020...hows them apples!?
 

jezzajay

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Using stats, you could argue that Mitchell is better than Dusty cause Mitchell gets more possessions and the key metric for midfielders is possessions. But in that case, and I’d argue in Castagna/Betts case, those stats are misleading.

Castagna’s ‘individual’ ie. his own player accolades, goal totals, will very likely not get close to Betts. But as a career, I’d take Castagna’s 2 flags and being an integral part in them as the manic forward pressure player in our pressure game plan in a heartbeat, and likely so would Betts


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Castagna wont even be discussed when he retires if he keeps going the way he has...Betts on the other hand, will be discussed for years (possibly decades) ahead.
There are plenty of premiership players out there that are forgotten about...my moneys on Castagna being one of them.
 

FlowersByIrene

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Using stats, you could argue that Mitchell is better than Dusty cause Mitchell gets more possessions and the key metric for midfielders is possessions. But in that case, and I’d argue in Castagna/Betts case, those stats are misleading.

Castagna’s ‘individual’ ie. his own player accolades, goal totals, will very likely not get close to Betts. But as a career, I’d take Castagna’s 2 flags and being an integral part in them as the manic forward pressure player in our pressure game plan in a heartbeat, and likely so would Betts


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Tom Mitchell is better than Dusty Martin.
 

Rich01

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Castagna wont even be discussed when he retires if he keeps going the way he has...Betts on the other hand, will be discussed for years (possibly decades) ahead.
There are plenty of premiership players out there that are forgotten about...my moneys on Castagna being one of them.
The only thing Betts and Castagna have in common is that they are both going to be minor players to their teams success.

Eddies had a great career but to expect him to be any more than a contributor to a bottom 8 team this year is a real stretch. He’s not going to be playing in a successful Carlton team moving forward.
 

Rich01

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As for Jack Martin...he's actually got more impressive stats than Castagna...huh.
I know Martin spends more time outside of the forward line...but considering this, Martin might actually be a better all round player!
Geez you would hope so considering he’s being paid a million bucks this year.
 

jezzajay

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The only thing Betts and Castagna have in common is that they are both going to be minor players to their teams success.

Eddies had a great career but to expect him to be any more than a contributor to a bottom 8 team this year is a real stretch. He’s not going to be playing in a successful Carlton team moving forward.
Never said Betts would take Carlton to the promise land...was just saying he’s a better player than Castagna. End of story.
 

Do the Dew

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Betts...dropped due to a lack of form by Adelaide...yes a worse team than Richmond.
Yet still has better stats and year than Castagna...
Take away the premiership and Castagna's year would be nothing but a blip on the AFL radar.
Yet Betts continues to provide the highlights and goals that Castagna doesn't provide - and Betts isn't even in his prime...the old, slow, small forward who's ten times better than someone a decade younger!

Didn't realize we were predicting the future here...just basing the conversation on what we have in front of us - which are facts that again prove Betts is the better player.

As for Jack Martin...he's likely to be the better player out of all three in 2020...hows them apples!?
So now he's 10 times better. Interesting.

Take away the premiership is a confusing argument. He was an integral part of the premiership. How are you supposed to remove that.
 

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HairyO

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Using stats, you could argue that Mitchell is better than Dusty cause Mitchell gets more possessions and the key metric for midfielders is possessions. But in that case, and I’d argue in Castagna/Betts case, those stats are misleading.

Castagna’s ‘individual’ ie. his own player accolades, goal totals, will very likely not get close to Betts. But as a career, I’d take Castagna’s 2 flags and being an integral part in them as the manic forward pressure player in our pressure game plan in a heartbeat, and likely so would Betts


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Dusty tends to be better because of his offensive pressure.

As pure inside mid Mitchell is better. As a utility player Dusty is ahead because you plonk him at FF, he takes the best defender and can still kick goals.
 

Monkey King

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Castagna’s ‘individual’ ie. his own player accolades, goal totals, will very likely not get close to Betts. But as a career, I’d take Castagna’s 2 flags and being an integral part in them as the manic forward pressure player in our pressure game plan in a heartbeat, and likely so would Betts
You reckon at this point Matthew Richardson would take the career of Brett James in a heartbeat? That he'd rather be forgotten by the football world and off growing apples for a living, instead of being celebrated as one of the game's great forwards and entrenched in a cushy media job? Yeah nah.

The legacy Eddie leaves behind in our game will be a source of pride for he and his kids for a long time to come. While I'm sure he'd love a flag before he gives it away, and Richo would've loved one too, it's really just A Beautiful Life type fantasy. Neither would want Castagna's career mate, only his medal.
 

Do the Dew

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You reckon at this point Matthew Richardson would take the career of Brett James in a heartbeat? That he'd rather be forgotten by the football world and off growing apples for a living, instead of being celebrated as one of the game's great forwards and entrenched in a cushy media job? Yeah nah.

The legacy Eddie leaves behind in our game will be a source of pride for he and his kids for a long time to come. While I'm sure he'd love a flag before he gives it away, and Richo would've loved one too, it's really just A Beautiful Life type fantasy. Neither would want Castagna's career mate, only his medal.
Medals*

And plenty of time for more, whereas Betts is almost 34


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La Dispute

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It’s a nice feeling to retire with a couple of premiership medals, but it’s not long lasting.

Betts can go on to a coaching (I’d say in a development role) or a media career and continue to be adulated as one of the greatest small forwards of all time, while Castagna will likely have to get into property management or run a Dan Murphy’s and his name will be a trivia question in a few years time.

(Who was that Richmond forward who kicked 5 behinds in the 2019 Grand Final?)
 

Rich01

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It’s a nice feeling to retire with a couple of premiership medals, but it’s not long lasting.

Betts can go on to a coaching (I’d say in a development role) or a media career and continue to be adulated as one of the greatest small forwards of all time, while Castagna will likely have to get into property management or run a Dan Murphy’s and his name will be a trivia question in a few years time.

(Who was that Richmond forward who kicked 5 behinds in the 2019 Grand Final?)
Yeah I get it. I feel that way about Richo as well.

It’s unfair to mention Betts and Castagna in the same sentence and a real disservice to Betts career. I’m a bit confused by the pissing contest from both supporter clubs of these two doing this to be honest.

George is more a Jack Silvagni or Will Setterfield type player in that like thousands of others before them, they were decent enough footballers to get senior games but forgettable at that standard.

The difference between George and the others is that he has two premiership medals. I question the feeling Premiership players have that it isn’t long lasting though. I hear premiership reunions are widely looked forward to at every club and on the main the feeling is life long. Only have to hear Robert Murphy talking about missing that bond with his mates after they won in 2016 to understand this perspective. Punters like you and me who never got there can only speculate on this feeling I spose.
 

La Dispute

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Yeah I get it. I feel that way about Richo as well.

It’s unfair to mention Betts and Castagna in the same sentence and a real disservice to Betts career. I’m a bit confused by the pissing contest from both supporter clubs of these two doing this to be honest.

George is more a Jack Silvagni or Will Setterfield type player in that like thousands of others before them, they were decent enough footballers to get senior games but forgettable at that standard.

The difference between George and the others is that he has two premiership medals. I question the feeling Premiership players have that it isn’t long lasting though. I hear premiership reunions are widely looked forward to at every club and on the main the feeling is life long. Only have to hear Robert Murphy talking about missing that bond with his mates after they won in 2016 to understand this perspective. Punters like you and me who never got there can only speculate on this feeling I spose.
All very true. Although they won’t experience the peak feeling ever again, which is the main point.

Also barring injury Setterfield will be a gun. Very classy, intelligent footballer.
 

Rich01

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All very true. Although they won’t experience the peak feeling ever again, which is the main point.
As punters we are speculating on how premiership players feel when they retire. We can also speculate about whether champion players such as Richo and Betts feel unforfilled and would swap individual achievements for a premiership medal. Plenty of players have claimed they would. Interesting discussion though.
 

RobR

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Yeah I get it. I feel that way about Richo as well.

It’s unfair to mention Betts and Castagna in the same sentence and a real disservice to Betts career. I’m a bit confused by the pissing contest from both supporter clubs of these two doing this to be honest.

George is more a Jack Silvagni or Will Setterfield type player in that like thousands of others before them, they were decent enough footballers to get senior games but forgettable at that standard.

The difference between George and the others is that he has two premiership medals. I question the feeling Premiership players have that it isn’t long lasting though. I hear premiership reunions are widely looked forward to at every club and on the main the feeling is life long. Only have to hear Robert Murphy talking about missing that bond with his mates after they won in 2016 to understand this perspective. Punters like you and me who never got there can only speculate on this feeling I spose.
I would think that in another five years you would not mention George in the same sentence as Silvagni or Setterfield, but that's just my opinion and maybe you wouldn't even mention him in the same sentence as Jack Martin.
 

4THAWN

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FWIW, even though Castagna has a history of spraying snaps through the behinds, he still manages to get into really dangerous positions almost every single game. Knows what he's doing and would definitely rather him on my team than a 33 year old Betts. Almost reminds me of Puopolo, can take a mark, lightning quick, defensive pressure and a dangerous small forward.
 

La Dispute

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FWIW, even though Castagna has a history of spraying snaps through the behinds, he still manages to get into really dangerous positions almost every single game. Knows what he's doing and would definitely rather him on my team than a 33 year old Betts. Almost reminds me of Puopolo, can take a mark, lightning quick, defensive pressure and a dangerous small forward.
Those ‘dangerous positions’ come about through the scrambling and hard work of teammates, creating quick turnovers to displace the opposition defence. A lot of the time he’s just running into vacant grass.

Puopolo overrated for similar reasons, and possibly even more so given the powerhouse team he had around him and in particular some of the best small forwards in the league in Rioli and Breust.
 
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Rich01

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I would think that in another five years you would not mention George in the same sentence as Silvagni or Setterfield, but that's just my opinion and maybe you wouldn't even mention him in the same sentence as Jack Martin.
Yeah who knows. I’m not as bullish on those two as you but it’s all subjective. If we rate George on what he’s done I’d rather take that over the other twos accomplishments. But in reality it’s neither here nor there. We aren’t talking about guys who will be remembered as great players.

Reckon all those guys if they don’t win a flag won’t be remembered for anything in 15 years time. Just footballers who were good enough at the level but not stars. They might be mentioned in a where are they now thread on bigfooty by their team supporters but not much else. Will be worshipped by Carlton fans if they deliver a flag for them though I’d imagine.
 

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