Has Jack Martin finally arrived ?

[jezzajay]

Betts old and slowing down.



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Your post is nuff at best...
But what I've quoted above...how has such an old and slowing down player produced better than any Richmond small forward from 2019?
He'd clearly get a game in your team.
Let that fact sink in.

 

[Soapy V]

Led and carried by old timers Murphy, Kreuzer, Curnow, and formerly Thomas.

Younger curnow and Docherty permanently injured, Mudguts McGovern still tubs. Newnes?, Williamson?, Stocker?, Cunningham? Are they even players.

Marchbank and Kennedy are average, Jones and Martin flaky, Betts old and slowing down.

You guys have had a permanently “young” group for the last 7 years, has to change eventually and you better hope you get results or you’ll be in the muck again.

How old's Cotchin Houli Reiwoldt Rance and Edwards?

I know it's hard for you to understand but our list was going to stay young for a few years as we turned it over. We are now at the stage it will start to grow and gain more experience. We now have a group of 20-22 year olds with 50 games or more. The older players are being moved out. We have are starting to develop depth. Some won't make it but they will push others. Much like you had with Townsend Butler Miles etc. It's not just the individuals but how they work together.

I understand your question marks on players but I'm confident and very happy in our position. Your question marks and comments prove you haven't watched us much at all. The rebuild overall has been very good and in 2020 it will start to bare results. 10-14 wins is my expectation depending on injuries. 2021-22 is when I expect us to become a real threat.

 

[Robertio]

How old's Cotchin Houli Reiwoldt Rance and Edwards?

I know it's hard for you to understand but our list was going to stay young for a few years as we turned it over. We are now at the stage it will start to grow and gain more experience. We now have a group of 20-22 year olds with 50 games or more. The older players are being moved out. We have are starting to develop depth. Some won't make it but they will push others. Much like you had with Townsend Butler Miles etc. It's not just the individuals but how they work together.

I understand your question marks on players but I'm confident and very happy in our position. Your question marks and comments prove you haven't watched us much at all. The rebuild overall has been very good and in 2020 it will start to bare results. 10-14 wins is my expectation depending on injuries. 2021-22 is when I expect us to become a real threat.

I bet you he won't agree with you Soap.

 

[Soapy V]

I bet you he won't agree with you Soap.

that’s cool. All entitled to our own opinions. I’m very very happy with our position

 

[Monkey King]

Well Rd 1 is your grand final. Should be a similar result as previous years. Blues play out of their skins for ~3 quarters, keeping the margin close, before we cruise away in the last to win by 4-6 goals.

Hmmm … 5-7 win-loss for Carlton since the two clubs started facing off in round one.

I understand why the recency bias, given you're a Tiger's supporter, but some us have memories that extend beyond our noses.

 

[Old navy]

Jack Martin will be similar to what he was at Gold Coast. Flashy player who drifts in and out of games but can't impact too much because of his extremely light frame.

Yeah ok.. just off the top of my head Charlie Cameron Micheal Walters Cyril Rioli Chad Wingard Hugh Mccluggage Sam Walsh Jayden Stephenson Brad Hill all players on the lighter side, tell me they don’t have much impact on games lol

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Minus the footy IQ, leadership, and team around him to bring out his unique skills. But sure, up the baggers


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Yep, unique situation Edwards finds himself in, had this all in place within his first 5 seasons.
The facts and the stats support your assessment, well done.

 

[Coaster2012]

Martin is never going to become what he was projected to be. I heard talk he was the best 16 year old player some had ever seen.

 

[La Dispute]

Martin is never going to become what he was projected to be. I heard talk he was the best 16 year old player some had ever seen.

This applies to 90% of draftees, and especially players drafted into that early Gold Coast list.

In fact, almost none - if any - have lived up to their pre-draft hype.

We’re just happy for Martin to be a part of our future forwardline, and it’s an even bigger bonus we didn’t have to give anything up to obtain him.

 

[Do the Dew]

Your post is nuff at best...
But what I've quoted above...how has such an old and slowing down player produced better than any Richmond small forward from 2019?
He'd clearly get a game in your team.
Let that fact sink in.

Betts wouldn't get close to a place in our team. He'd have to beat out Castagna, Rioli, or Bolton, all who are much quicker than him, apply better pressure, can take contested marks despite their size, and can move into the midfield/wing/half-forward for stints to isolate our talls + Dusty.

Betts used to be an absolute gun don't get me wrong. One of the best small forwards in the modern era behind Milne. It's just odd that you guys brought in a clearly aging and slowing player when other young small forwards were available: Papley and Butler - although you went after Papley

 

[Do the Dew]

How old's Cotchin Houli Reiwoldt Rance and Edwards?

I know it's hard for you to understand but our list was going to stay young for a few years as we turned it over. We are now at the stage it will start to grow and gain more experience. We now have a group of 20-22 year olds with 50 games or more. The older players are being moved out. We have are starting to develop depth. Some won't make it but they will push others. Much like you had with Townsend Butler Miles etc. It's not just the individuals but how they work together.

I understand your question marks on players but I'm confident and very happy in our position. Your question marks and comments prove you haven't watched us much at all. The rebuild overall has been very good and in 2020 it will start to bare results. 10-14 wins is my expectation depending on injuries. 2021-22 is when I expect us to become a real threat.

EFA. Cotchin Houli Riewoldt Edwards only have a couple of years left most likely. But we have a solid core of players in the next age bracket (Prestia, Lynch, Dusty, Caddy) that should hold us in good stead. And anyway, we're not cellar-dwelling so I'm not too concerned about when our older players will finish up.

But you've been turning over the list for ages without any success, all the while your older good players get older still. That's been the main criticism of SOS. If you didn't have Cripps (who is a top 5 player in the game), you'd be in serious strife.

It seems to me that you have a core of older experienced players who only have a year or two left, surrounded by a bunch of very young players, with not many in that 24-27 age bracket that you need.

Funnily enough, I actually did watch you play a lot. Although you think everything is going to be rosy, I'd have some reservations until I see some actual progress throughout the entirety of the season. But I'm a pessimist from way back so to each their own.

 

[La Dispute]

It seems to me that you have a core of older experienced players who only have a year or two left, surrounded by a bunch of very young players, with not many in that 24-27 age bracket that you need.

This argument feels largely phoned in from 2017.

So in 2 years time the players in that age group are Cripps, Weitering, McKay, McGovern, Curnow, Newman, SPS, Fisher, Marchbank, Setterfield, Martin. A very solid group of core players, to which many have shown future AA potential.

We’ve then got Docherty is still only 28, and Walsh who already plays like a 100-gamer.

Then add in any other players we get via Free Agency and through trades, as Richmond opportunistically did with the 3 Ex Gold Coasters.

We’ve also invested in multiple first rounders since 2017 with and Dow, O’Brien, Walsh, Stocker, Kemp and Philip. Not all will go on to be stars (Walsh will), but most first-rounders go on to become at least reasonable best 22 footballers. We were extremely fortunate that Kemp slid due to injury, as he would have been in the first few selected otherwise.

This proven/unproven dichotomy is always a little inane. Of course players who are 20-21 aren’t AFL equality - they’re still in development-mode and won’t be in their prime for another 4-5 years. Someone like Weitering is at worst a very good key defender, but should grow into an elite backman in the coming years. Thinking otherwise is pulling the wool over your own eyes.

Look at Josh Caddy. The guy was a failed midfielder for years before finally stumbling into a position that suited him on the half-forwardline, in a very strong team no less. If that’s not the most obvious hallmark of a downhill skiier I don’t know what is - but he gets celebrated in the present because he’s contributing to a strong team.

Easy to forget the journeys player’s embark on to get to being decent AFL players, and writing off players in their primordial years or comparing them to established players who should be in their absolute prime has consistently shown to be pointless navel-gazing.

 

[Dusty0004]

Can someone fill me in exactly what the point of this thread is?

he was late for training and it was a legitimate question of whether had arrived or not

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Your post is nuff at best...
But what I've quoted above...how has such an old and slowing down player produced better than any Richmond small forward from 2019?
He'd clearly get a game in your team.
Let that fact sink in.

Slowing down doesn't mean s**t.

Also did you see Castagna in the GF? Almost kicked 5 goals. Amazing. I'd like to see Betts do that.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Carlton is in a good place though. They'll only get better from here on out I reckon.

 

[Monkey King]

Also did you see Castagna in the GF? Almost kicked 5 goals. Amazing. I'd like to see Betts do that.

True that. Betts hasn't had donut goals in finals too often.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

True that. Betts hasn't had donut goals in finals too often.

What an amateur.

 

[jezzajay]

Betts wouldn't get close to a place in our team. He'd have to beat out Castagna, Rioli, or Bolton, all who are much quicker than him, apply better pressure, can take contested marks despite their size, and can move into the midfield/wing/half-forward for stints to isolate our talls + Dusty.

Betts used to be an absolute gun don't get me wrong. One of the best small forwards in the modern era behind Milne. It's just odd that you guys brought in a clearly aging and slowing player when other young small forwards were available: Papley and Butler - although you went after Papley

Small forwards kick goals first and foremost...Betts still shits on all those you listed for goals champ.

 

[La Dispute]

Yeh Castagna is an average player being propped up by a good team - he isn’t a patch on the GOAT small forward, even at 45 years old. Castagna could still go the way of Dan Butler or Jacob Townsend.

I rate Bolton, Rioli has plateaued since 2017 but may still improve.

Not sure what the point of the comparison is though? You’re contrasting three players who’re still developing with a guy who’s 4-5 years past his very best. We are expecting moderate output from him, but he is largely a devepmental aid for Martin and Cuningham. Their improvement will signal the success of Betts’ re-inclusion in the team.

 

[Do the Dew]

Yeh Castagna is an average player being propped up by a good team - he isn’t a patch on the GOAT small forward, even at 45 years old. Castagna could still go the way of Dan Butler or Jacob Townsend.

I rate Bolton, Rioli has plateaued since 2017 but may still improve.

Not sure what the point of the comparison is though? You’re contrasting three players who’re still developing with a guy who’s 4-5 years past his very best. We are expecting moderate output from him, but he is largely a devepmental aid for Martin and Cuningham. Their improvement will signal the success of Betts’ re-inclusion in the team.

Cause old mate above is claiming that current day Betts would walk into our team when he clearly wouldn’t cause he doesn’t have the things that we expect our smalls to have ie. pace and pressure


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[La Dispute]

Cause old mate above is claiming that current day Betts would walk into our team when he clearly wouldn’t cause he doesn’t have the things that we expect our smalls to have ie. pace and pressure

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Pace and pressure is all Castagna brings, whereas Betts still has his elite goal sense, composure and is better at bringing others into the game. If he played for Richmond, they’d adapt and others would compensation for whatever deficiencies Betts would have, mainly due to his age.

Castagna is pretty average overall. He’s done well to earn a spot in a dominant Richmond team, but he’d struggle in a weaker lineup. Like Butler this year, he’d be one short injury stint away from being dislodged.

 

[Dusty0004]

Pace and pressure is all Castagna brings, whereas Betts still has his elite goal sense, composure and is better at bringing others into the game. If he played for Richmond, they’d adapt and others would compensation for whatever deficiencies Betts would have, mainly due to his age.

Castagna is pretty average overall. He’s done well to earn a spot in a dominant Richmond team, but he’d struggle in a weaker lineup. Like Butler this year, he’d be one short injury stint away from being dislodged.

The only thing Castagna misses from his game is the end polish. He cleaned that up he would be elite as he is every where else.
He had 6 shots at goal in the Grand Final made GWS look slow and ordinary. He kicks 4 or 5 of them shots which he should have he nearly wins Norm Smith.
Eddie is lucky to have 6 shots at goal a game these days. But we know he’d nail 4 or 5 if he did.
Castagna has him covered everywhere else easily these days.

 

[La Dispute]

The only thing Castagna misses from his game is the end polish. He cleaned that up he would be elite as he is every where else.
He had 6 shots at goal in the Grand Final made GWS look slow and ordinary. He kicks 4 or 5 of them shots which he should have he nearly wins Norm Smith.
Eddie is lucky to have 6 shots at goal a game these days. But we know he’d nail 4 or 5 if he did.
Castagna has him covered everywhere else easily these days.

I think his inability to show base-level composure in the grand final landslide sums him up entirely.

He’s done well to find himself in a role that suits his limited skillset, and the Tigers game plan and emphasis on frenetic front-half pressure further accomodates him, but he’s a low-ceiling role player who is completely replaceable.

 

[Dusty0004]

I think his inability to show base-level composure in the grand final landslide sums him up entirely.

He’s done well to find himself in a role that suits his limited skillset, and the Tigers game plan and emphasis on frenetic front-half pressure further accomodates him, but he’s a low-ceiling role player who is completely replaceable.

going into season 2020 I’d have castagna over Betts every day of the week and twice on Sunday

 

[Rich01]

going into season 2020 I’d have castagna over Betts every day of the week and twice on Sunday

Betts will be great for some out the back goals and the odd highlight next year. Will no doubt bring joy to Carlton supporters.

But his defensive pressure is zero these days and these same supporters will ignore the goals scored against them from his opponent running off him out of defence.

That said I love watching him play and look forward to seeing him in the flag unfurling game.