Has Jack Martin finally arrived ?

[Tenny]

You don’t give up elite talent like Kemp for foot soldiers, that’s just silly.

The going rate for a Richmond C-grader the past few years (Lloyd, C. Ellis, Miles, Butler) is a token late pick, and that is mostly just to accomodate them getting to their club of choice.

Kemp is a utility stuck in no man’s land. Not quite a mid, not quite a key forward. Plus he’s coming off a very serious injury. If he has the career Castagna has, you’d be very content.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I don’t know why there’s such emphasis on his career to do date at the Gold Coast.

They’ve got an enduring history of burning the development of talented players, and the true yardstick will be his output in an improving (better) team.

Since Martin has been in the AFL Gold Coast have won the exact same amount of games as Carlton. Easy to pot the development at the Suns, but a lot of the same criticisms could be applied to the team he has gone to.

 

[Robertio]

You’re basing this on nothing but pure hope and optimism. There’s nothing to suggest that Castagna wouldn’t dominate at a s**t team like Carlton as he does at the best team in the comp. If Castagna played at Carlton we wouldn’t stop hearing about how good he is.

Also Butler’s best is better than Martin’s best. You missed out massively with that one. Butler said he chose the Saints over Carlton though so I guess it was out of your control.

Well there's also nothing to suggest that Castagna would dominate at Carlton and your the one saying how good he is, can't even kick straight. I don't think you've ever seen Jack Martin play, already shown way more than Butler who is also at his second club.

 

[Tenny]

Well there's also nothing to suggest that Castagna would dominate at Carlton and your the one saying how good he is, can't even kick straight. I don't think you've ever seen Jack Martin play, already shown way more than Butler who is also at his second club.

Players rarely all of a sudden regress as soon as they enter another club like he/she suggested. It’s a strange theory to subscribe to. You’ve picked up plenty of players from superior sides over the years and they haven’t gotten any worse once they’ve joined your mob. It seems incredibly odd to single out Castagna given you have been in this position before and nothing that you are suggesting has occurred. In fact, it’s probably been the complete opposite if anything.

 

[Niggles]

Every single player on that first list is or will be AA so stop being a troll.

it’s amazing how much s**t cones out of Richmond fans mouths these days. Winning a few cups has turned you f***ers into unbearable dick heads. I guarantee when Carlton rise up all 100k of us will not stoop to your level and troll every other club. Carlton have developed plenty of players that have won games off their own boot in the last 15 years. GFY.

The current premiership teams supporters are often the most abundant. And during this particular dynasty, by far the most knowledgeable, reasonable and likeable. Those who support bottom teams like Carlton, struggle to accept this is the new age where the Tiges are not a laughing stock anymore, so really struggle to accept it.

The one advantage Carlton supporters have is their immunity to any discipline around here. Free reign to insult everyone else who disagrees.

Other than Cripps, name one player who wins games off his own boot that Carlton has developed since 2005. This is why you bring in those like Martin hoping he'll somehow all of a sudden become half decent.

You didn't, but you should wait until he plays a game or two for Carlton before you form an opinion.

What's the point of anybody posting at all then. Maybe stay out of the thread if all it does is hurt your feelings?

 

[La Dispute]

Since Martin has been in the AFL Gold Coast have won the exact same amount of games as Carlton. Easy to pot the development at the Suns, but a lot of the same criticisms could be applied to the team he has gone to.

Our development of players has been very good since 2015, and we are only just starting to see the fruits of that.

Measuring games won (6-5 in the back half of last year btw) is fools gold while you’re in a rebuilding phase, and the main goal is to pump games into young players and ensure they are getting a good education into the AFL system.

Jack Martin came at the perfect time.

 

[jezzajay]

The current premiership teams supporters are often the most abundant. And during this particular dynasty, by far the most knowledgeable, reasonable and likeable.

Wow...most arrogant post I have read on here...ever!

 

[Rich01]

You didn't, but you should wait until he plays a game or two for Carlton before you form an opinion.

Why do I need to wait to form an opinion on him?

I’ve seen him play and he’s been in the system several years.

 

[lumpinee]

FMD.. this thread on Martin is still getting miles?...have peeps got it confused as a Dusty thread?....i commented on here 5-6 weeks ago thinking it was on its last legs then...WHAOO Carlton fans must be relying heavily on this nobody if this thread still gaining chips

 

[Bestbird]

Our development of players has been very good since 2015, and we are only just starting to see the fruits of that.

Measuring games won (6-5 in the back half of last year btw) is fools gold while you’re in a rebuilding phase, and the main goal is to pump games into young players and ensure they are getting a good education into the AFL system.

Jack Martin came at the perfect time.

Part of Goldcoasts player development problems is that they keep getting raided by the other AFL clubs so it is pretty hard to build a good list. That hasn't been the problem with Carlton yet the success of both clubs since 2015 is fairly similar

 

[Robertio]

Why do I need to wait to form an opinion on him?

I’ve seen him play and he’s been in the system several years.

You haven't seen him play at Carlton so any opinion you have is just a guess.

 

[La Dispute]

Part of Goldcoasts player development problems is that they keep getting raided by the other AFL clubs so it is pretty hard to build a good list. That hasn't been the problem with Carlton yet the success of both clubs since 2015 is fairly similar

I completely agree, but you’re comparing apples with oranges.

Carlton haven’t placed a premium on wins and losses during our rebuilding phase because we feel there’s no utility on doing so while the team is in development mode.

Gold Coast don’t have the same luxury of declaring they’ll be delaying winning games (or at least judging overall progress on winning), because in their position being competitive (W v L) is essential for their survival as a club.

Last year was the first year since Bolton took over, and the rebuild began, Wins and Losses became a legitimate metric for assessing where the squad was at, hence Bolton’s sacking and Teague’s eventual appointment following a successful back half of 2019.

 

[La Dispute]

You haven't seen him play at Carlton so any opinion you have is just a guess.

This keeps getting lost in translation.

Until Martin plays a game for us, the assessments about him are pretty much void.

It’s very difficult to stay motivated and get the very best out of yourself while you’re stuck in a team you don’t want to be part of, and for various reasons won’t be competitive for at least few years.

The transformation of players like Scrimshaw and Lyons at other clubs is a clear indication of what can happen once you’re brought into a good system. I see Martin following a similar path at Carlton.

 

[Red_man2008]

Since Martin has been in the AFL Gold Coast have won the exact same amount of games as Carlton. Easy to pot the development at the Suns, but a lot of the same criticisms could be applied to the team he has gone to.

You’re just jealous coz your mob wanted him, offered him more money but he said NO. I wonder why. Maybe he sees more in carltons future like everyone else.

 

[Robertio]

The current premiership teams supporters are often the most abundant. And during this particular dynasty, by far the most knowledgeable, reasonable and likeable. Those who support bottom teams like Carlton, struggle to accept this is the new age where the Tiges are not a laughing stock anymore, so really struggle to accept it.

The one advantage Carlton supporters have is their immunity to any discipline around here. Free reign to insult everyone else who disagrees.

Other than Cripps, name one player who wins games off his own boot that Carlton has developed since 2005. This is why you bring in those like Martin hoping he'll somehow all of a sudden become half decent.



What's the point of anybody posting at all then. Maybe stay out of the thread if all it does is hurt your feelings?

Well if you get disciplined for this it's because it's a Jack Martin thread and you failed to mention him.

 

[Red_man2008]

To help understand wgat Teague influence will do for Jack Martin it’s important to understand how Carlton improved under him.

Carlton were ranked second last for scoring under Bolton to 4th under Teague. 9th for points against compared to 3rd last. 3rd for scores inside 50 and 1st from forward half intercepts. How does jack rate amongst this. ******* great. He’s an elite tackler and is a great user by both feet.I expect him involved in most of our scores in 2020. Carlton have now had a preseason to continue tweaking Teague a game plan and perfecting it. It’s finally his team.

 

[Monkey King]

You’re basing this on nothing but pure hope and optimism.

There’s nothing to suggest that Castagna wouldn’t dominate at a s**t team like Carlton as he does at the best team in the comp.

Also Butler’s best is better than Martin’s best.

The strength of the Richmond team and their gameplan is one of Castagna's greatest assets. The GCS s**t show was one of Jack's biggest liabilities. It's an observation.

Castagna doesn't dominate for Richmond mate. He's a Matty Wright type player, which is not to be scoffed at, but yeah. And his record at Docklands is pretty average, which is where Carlton play a bunch of games. Yeah nah, Martin with the higher ceiling was the smart play IMO and only time will tell otherwise.

Stop drinking your own bathwater. Martin's best is better than Butler's. When has Butler kicked 4 goals … or had 30 touches?

 

[Bulldog1954]

You’re just jealous coz your mob wanted him, offered him more money but he said NO. I wonder why. Maybe he sees more in carltons future like everyone else.

 

[La Dispute]

It is a huge endorsement for Teague and the squad Martin chose us over the Bulldogs, a finals quality team who at the time were offering more money. Can’t underestimate the impact of recruiting Betts in this regard.

I suspect we’re going to see a very different Jack Martin this year than the 2019 model.

 

[Rich01]

You haven't seen him play at Carlton so any opinion you have is just a guess.

Its based on seeing him after 6 years in the system. He’s isn’t a kid anymore.

He may improve (in fact I expect him to), just as Josh a Caddy did at Richmond. And for $650k a year for 5 years you would be demanding him to. It would be a great outcome if he delivered similar results for you guys as Josh did for us.

 

[Tenny]

The strength of the Richmond team and their gameplan is one of Castagna's greatest assets. The GCS s**t show was one of Jack's biggest liabilities. It's an observation.

Castagna doesn't dominate for Richmond mate. He's a Matty Wright type player, which is not to be scoffed at, but yeah. And his record at Docklands is pretty average, which is where Carlton play a bunch of games. Yeah nah, Martin with the higher ceiling was the smart play IMO and only time will tell otherwise.

Stop drinking your own bathwater. Martin's best is better than Butler's. When has Butler kicked 4 goals … or had 30 touches?

No it’s not. Castagna’s speed, intensity, pressure, athleticism, acceleration, aerial threat and goal sense are his strengths. Take away Richmond’s game plan and they all still remain. He’s a vastly superior player to Martin, who has done f*** all throughout his career to date.

If Martin wasn’t such a highly rated junior I doubt he would even be on a list right now. You’ve recruited him through sheer hope that he can recapture that u18s form, not from exposed AFL form.

 

[A Bit Dusty]

The strength of the Richmond team and their gameplan is one of Castagna's greatest assets. The GCS s**t show was one of Jack's biggest liabilities. It's an observation.

Castagna doesn't dominate for Richmond mate. He's a Matty Wright type player, which is not to be scoffed at, but yeah. And his record at Docklands is pretty average, which is where Carlton play a bunch of games. Yeah nah, Martin with the higher ceiling was the smart play IMO and only time will tell otherwise.

Stop drinking your own bathwater. Martin's best is better than Butler's. When has Butler kicked 4 goals … or had 30 touches?

In all fairness Martin hasn't actually played a game for Carlton yet. Only time will tell but I wish him all the best he is an exciting player to watch.

 

[Monkey King]

No it’s not. Castagna’s speed, intensity, pressure, athleticism, acceleration, aerial threat and goal sense are his strengths.

He’s a vastly superior player to Martin, who has done f*** all throughout his career to date.

Which if you placed into the GCS team would just be an honest battler mate. Let's face it; Richmond is this bloke's Goldilocks zone.

Take your head out of the Richmond bubble. It's arguable that Castagna's been the better player, it's arguable he's not been. Vastly superior? Fanboi much!

 

[La Dispute]

Castagna is a great athlete (would have made a great pole vaulter with his combination of athletic traits), but Martin is a far more natural footballer with superior on-field intelligence, read, poise and far better skills. He’s also a beautiful kick and a great tackler for his size.

Unfortunately for Martin, like many former Gold Coast players, his career was stagnating and he needed a change of scenery to reset himself and at least partly fulfil his obvious potential.

He picked the perfect time as Carlton are improving and have regained the greatest small forward of all time to mentor him, set training standards and play in tandem with for at least a season or two.

 

[Tenny]

Which if you placed into the GCS team would just be an honest battler mate. Let's face it; Richmond is this bloke's Goldilocks zone.

Take your head out of the Richmond bubble. It's arguable that Castagna's been the better player, it's arguable he's not been. Vastly superior? Fanboi much!

How can you definitively make that call? How many players move clubs from superior teams to inferior teams and regress? It doesn’t happen often. Usually players either maintain that level or improve.

Also Castagna is a lot more damaging than Martin. I guess I value these types more. Martin averages three more possessions per game (probably due to the fact he spends more time in the midfield), but Castagna averages more goals, scoring shots, inside fifties, goal assists and score involvements. Pretty clear cut on paper as well.