Has Jack Martin finally arrived ?

[jezzajay]

How can you definitively make that call? How many players move clubs from superior teams to inferior teams and regress? It doesn’t happen often. Usually players either maintain that level or improve.

Also Castagna is a lot more damaging than Martin. I guess I value these types more. Martin averages three more possessions per game (probably due to the fact he spends more time in the midfield), but Castagna averages more goals, scoring shots, inside fifties, goal assists and score involvements. Pretty clear cut on paper as well.

Who do you rate more...Josh caddy or Jason castagna?
Caddy and Martin (if anything martins more versatile) are similar types...and I view Martin as having more upside, yet their stat averages are currently on par.
Caddy’s numbers are better than castagnas...I understand they play different positions but I’d rather caddy than castagna on their ‘good day’.
By that theory, Jack Martin will be a better player than castagna over their respective careers.

 

[Tenny]

Who do you rate more...Josh caddy or Jason castagna?
Caddy and Martin (if anything martins more versatile) are similar types...and I view Martin as having more upside, yet their stat averages are currently on par.
Caddy’s numbers are better than castagnas...I understand they play different positions but I’d rather caddy than castagna on their ‘good day’.
By that theory, Jack Martin will be a better player than castagna over their respective careers.

What does Caddy have to do with this discussion? You’re comparing small forwards to a defensive wingman.

 

[La Dispute]

Castagna averages more goals, scoring shots, inside fifties, goal assists and score involvements. Pretty clear cut on paper as well.

This is part and parcel of playing in a strong team that scores a lot. If Richmond didn’t have a cast of stars making players like Castagna look good, inflating their stats in the process, it’d be an entirely different story. Scoring stats will always favour strong teams, with the residual effect being all forwards within the team should have good offensive statistics. It’s accumulated advantage. Gold Coast by contrast score poorly, and that reflects Martin’s average offensive statistics.

Look at the video I posted of Castagna kicking 5 against Gold Coast. He’s mainly taking uncontested marks in the 50 and converting simple set shots, and that’s just his go. Somebody needs to get on the end of forays forward, and he’s played enough footy with the players around him it’s relatively easy to work out how the play will unfold.

 

[Tenny]

This is part and parcel of playing in a strong team that scores a lot. If Richmond didn’t have a cast of stars making players like Castagna look good, inflating their stats in the process, it’d be an entirely different story. Scoring stats will always favour strong teams, with the residual effect being all forwards within the team should have good offensive statistics. It’s accumulated advantage. Gold Coast by contrast score poorly, and that reflects Martin’s average offensive statistics.

Look at the video I posted of Castagna kicking 5 against Gold Coast. He’s mainly taking uncontested marks in the 50 and converting simple set shots, and that’s just his go. Somebody needs to get on the end of forays forward, and he’s played enough footy with the players around him it’s relatively easy to work out how the play will unfold.

You could also argue that because Richmond have so many good players in their forward line, there is more competition to kick goals. Imagine trying to kick goals with Lynch, Martin and Riewoldt besides you. You could never command the ball in the forward fifty. The fact Castagna has managed to kick 30 odd goals is a testament to his talent. Make him the focal point at Carlton and 50 isn’t out of the question.

And using one game to represent the entirety of Castagna’s goals is just stupid. There are plenty of examples of him kicking great goals. Look at the goal he kicked against Fremantle this year, that’s better than anything Martin has ever done.

Castagna still has a lot of untapped potential. If he eventually gets his kicking right (admittedly, it’s below average), he will be a super player.

 

[jezzajay]

What does Caddy have to do with this discussion? You’re comparing small forwards to a defensive wingman.

Bit like...why compare castagna to Martin!??

 

[rank and file]

Booted home a couple at Stony Creek today,just needs to do it in the city.

 

[jezzajay]

You could also argue that because Richmond have so many good players in their forward line, there is more competition to kick goals. Imagine trying to kick goals with Lynch, Martin and Riewoldt besides you. You could never command the ball in the forward fifty. The fact Castagna has managed to kick 30 odd goals is a testament to his talent. Make him the focal point at Carlton and 50 isn’t out of the question.

And using one game to represent the entirety of Castagna’s goals is just stupid. There are plenty of examples of him kicking great goals. Look at the goal he kicked against Fremantle this year, that’s better than anything Martin has ever done.

Castagna still has a lot of untapped potential. If he eventually gets his kicking right (admittedly, it’s below average), he will be a super player.

Haha...fact is castagna has never kicked 30 odd goals in a season!
Fact is his best season he averaged 1.2 goals as a forward...Martins best average is 0.8...not bad for a player who plays multiple positions.
You simply won’t win this debate champ.

 

[Tenny]

Haha...fact is castagna has never kicked 30 odd goals in a season!
Fact is his best season he averaged 1.2 goals as a forward...Martins best average is 0.8...not bad for a player who plays multiple positions.
You simply won’t win this debate champ.

He kicked 27 goals last season. Pretty sure that’s 30 odd.

I wouldn’t be scoffing at 27 goals either. He kicked more goals than any Carlton player. Would easily be your best forward outside of Curnow.

 

[jezzajay]

He kicked 27 goals last season. Pretty sure that’s 30 odd.

I wouldn’t be scoffing at 27 goals either. He kicked more goals than any Carlton player. Would easily be your best forward outside of Curnow.

You talk rubbish...McKay and McGovern also averaged more goals than Castagna per game alongside Curnow. Even Matt Kennedy equaled Castagnas average.
Just because it took Castagna 24 games to kick that many doesn’t make him better.

 

[lumpinee]

Booted home a couple at Stony Creek today,just needs to do it in the city.

thats more interesting than this thread on a nobody called martin let me tell ya.

 

[Monkey King]

How can you definitively make that call? How many players move clubs from superior teams to inferior teams and regress? It doesn’t happen often. Usually players either maintain that level or improve.

Plenty of role players struggle when they make the move to a different team structure. Matt Suckling, Craig Bird, Matt Rosa, Pearce Hanley, Aaron Young ... and plenty more with a dead cat bounce in their first season at the new club.

I’m not definitively making any call, just pointing out there is a very real risk of falling returns.

Also Castagna is a lot more damaging than Martin ... Castagna averages more goals, scoring shots, inside fifties, goal assists and score involvements. Pretty clear cut on paper as well.

Clear cut on paper? Lol, Which paper are you looking at? The one where you selectively list a few stats he’s ahead on, or the paper where he’s clearly behind on the vast majority of overall football stats?

The stats reflect Castagna plays more forward ... for an extra ONE goal every THREE games, or an extra ONE assist every TEN games. Every TEN games. LMAO it’s pathetic to claim that as “clear cut”. You’re not even trying to be genuine at this point, totally lost in your fanboy fairyland.

 

[Monkey King]

He kicked 27 goals last season. Pretty sure that’s 30 odd.

Baaahahahaha. Sorry bud, 27 would be 20-odd.

30 odd means like 30 plus a little more, not minus a little less.

This post is going straight to the pool room.

 

[Jeremias]

I’m not sure why people are bothering with the Richmond troll.

Wasn’t worth conversing with his previous accounts, and certainly isn’t this time around either.

 

[jooce8891]

Usually elite environments get the best out of players. Carlton is awful. Draft talented kids then turn them into hacks. Have only developed one draftee into A grader throughout their fifteen odd years of rebuilding. The odds are stacked against them to turn Martin into an A grader. That’s why they should’ve gone for a more talented ready made player in Castagna. I think Richmond would’ve accepted their first round pick as well so they would’ve got themselves a very good deal.

castagna more talented , you make me laugh

 

[Niggles]

I’m not sure why people are bothering with the Richmond troll.

Wasn’t worth conversing with his previous accounts, and certainly isn’t this time around either.

The Richmond supporters are making great points and without us this thread dies. Most Carlton supporters have this crazy idea that J Martin was/is a gun. He's done SFA his whole career, yet as soon as he landed at Carlton he is being talked up as some kind of superstar.

The premise of the thread is 'Has Jack Martin finally arrived?' Well my opinion is that he hadn't and he probably never will especially while at Carlton who have struggled to nurture/grow talent recently. Hopefully the new coaching structure will change the culture there and I wish him nothing but the best.

Thank you

Wow...most arrogant post I have read on here...ever!

Ever? Do you not read your own board?

 

[jooce8891]

thats more interesting than this thread on a nobody called martin let me tell ya.

you call him a nobody, but here you are in a thread dedicated to him, funny that

 

[Monkey King]

The Richmond supporters are making great points and without us this thread dies. Most Carlton supporters have this crazy idea that J Martin was/is a gun. He's done SFA his whole career, yet as soon as he landed at Carlton he is being talked up as some kind of superstar.

Hmm … so saying Castagna is not a vastly superior player to Martin = Jack Martin is a gun/superstar?

Some Tiger posters are very reasonable, others have just lost their bearings.

 

[jezzajay]

The Richmond supporters are making great points and without us this thread dies. Most Carlton supporters have this crazy idea that J Martin was/is a gun. He's done SFA his whole career, yet as soon as he landed at Carlton he is being talked up as some kind of superstar.

The premise of the thread is 'Has Jack Martin finally arrived?' Well my opinion is that he hadn't and he probably never will especially while at Carlton who have struggled to nurture/grow talent recently. Hopefully the new coaching structure will change the culture there and I wish him nothing but the best.

Thank you


Ever? Do you not read your own board?

View attachment 808584

True sign of someone defeated...deflect mode.

 

[tiger_tough]

Baaahahahaha. Sorry bud, 27 would be 20-odd.

30 odd means like 30 plus a little more, not minus a little less.

This post is going straight to the pool room.

You sure about that? 30 odd is just something close to 30 in my book.

Strange post.

 

[Monkey King]

You sure about that? 30 odd is just something close to 30 in my book.

Strange post.

Yes mate, I am sure about that.

Imagine you ask a teenager how old they are and they say 20 odd

For something to be 30 odd, it must be over 30. I am genuinely surprised more than one person would make this mistake.

 

[juss]

I think Martin will struggle with consistency. He'll do some special things with his talent, but he will also go missing for large periods and drift in and out of games.

So a season with some great games, rather than a great season. 20-25 goals but a few invisible games. He can play, but I reckon hes still a couple of years of development from consistent week to week impact.

I was suprised he turns 25 in a week (97 games). Hes not old and declining, but thats certainly not football young. His upside would look a lot more promising if he was 21 with 40 games behind him.

 

[LordLucifer]

Seems to be a lot of arguing about nothing here now.

 

[Niggles]

True sign of someone defeated...deflect mode.

Excuse me? I didn't realise this was a competition. I also don't believe I deflected in any way. But regardless, you've won. Congratulations.

 

[jezzajay]

Excuse me? I didn't realise this was a competition. I also don't believe I deflected in any way. But regardless, you've won. Congratulations.

You're excused...and thank you...

 

[tiger_tough]

Yes mate, I am sure about that.

Imagine you ask a teenager how old they are and they say 20 odd

For something to be 30 odd, it must be over 30. I am genuinely surprised more than one person would make this mistake.

Imagine you ask a teenager how old they are and they say 10 odd....Doesn't sound right to me