Has Kruezer been terribly disappointing?

[WaltzingMatera]

...at the time any club wiould take the tall with talent to burn.

I hear this a lot from Carlton fans that everyone would have taken him before Cotchin.

WC clearly said that if they got pick 1 (out of the Judd deal) they would have used it on Cotchin as they thought that he was one of the best youngsters to come through the system for years. Maybe WC were the only ones who thought like this or maybe half a dozen other clubs rated Cotchin higher as well.

 

[bombermick]

Ratten should have learnt from Hirdy's failure last year - which is 3 rucks doesn't work. Warnock is the best tap ruck of the 3, but Hampson and Kreuzer are not near full-time forwards. Playing all 3 because Waite is unavailiable is madness, and he'd better off playing a smaller, nippier forward line.

 

[Malifice]

Ratten should have learnt from Hirdy's failure last year - which is 3 rucks doesn't work. Warnock is the best tap ruck of the 3, but Hampson and Kreuzer are not near full-time forwards. Playing all 3 because Waite is unavailiable is madness, and he'd better off playing a smaller, nippier forward line.

Betts and Gartlett aint small enough for you? Walker isnt exactly tall at 190cms either.

Hampson has been servicable as a forward this year. 14 goals and 6 goal assists to date, spending a fair bit of time in the centre is OK.

Dont get me wrong, we really need Mitchell to come back in post shoulder op, and Waite to regain fitness.

 

[bombermick]

Betts and Gartlett aint small enough for you? Walker isnt exactly tall at 190cms either.

Hampson has been servicable as a forward this year. 14 goals and 6 goal assists to date, spending a fair bit of time in the centre is OK.

Dont get me wrong, we really need Mitchell to come back in post shoulder op, and Waite to regain fitness.

Neither Hamspon or Kreuz are centre-half forwards. Who's the guy that can lead up the wings and be the hit-up target? It's far different to WCE who also play a tall forward line, because Lynch often goes well up the ground.

 

[Malifice]

Neither Hamspon or Kreuz are centre-half forwards. Who's the guy that can lead up the wings and be the hit-up target? It's far different to WCE who also play a tall forward line, because Lynch often goes well up the ground.

Completely agree with you.

Unfortunately Carlton dont have a CHF at the moment. Waite and Mitchell (our number 1 candidates) have been out injured, and Henderson has been needed more down back with the injuries to Duigan and Laidler.

Kruezer and Hampson are stop gaps as permanent tall forwards at best. Ideally both players should be Rucks that rest forward, rather than the semi permanent CHF's theyve been asked to become due to holes in our list and injury issues.

 

[bombermick]

Mitchell has been named an emergency, so I guess he's ready to play seniors? You've got Watson, Jamo and Duigan to play back, which would allow Henderson to play forward - even if it's robbing Peter.

He was pretty good as a CHF in 2010. It shows how your forward line falls apart without Waite and that's a huge list management issue.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

Why? You'd be blind to not recognize his elite talent. Let's not get too off topic though.

You were the one who compared him to Cotchin and derailed the thread. Why do you feel the need to boast that your team got the arguably more superior player and put down Kreuzer?

 

[Malifice]

Mitchell has been named an emergency, so I guess he's ready to play seniors? .

Mitchell is coming off a number of shoulder reconstructions, and only the one (limited game) in the twos. And he's 20 and yet to play an AFL game. And we're playing Geelong. Waite is out injured, and Henderson is caning it as a defender (where we need him with Duigan and Laidler out).

Enter Kruezer/ Hampson.

You've got Watson, Jamo and Duigan to play back, which would allow Henderson to play forward - even if it's robbing Peter

Watsons 4th AFL game. Duigan will cover for Bower who was omitted. Henderson missed last week due to injury as well.

We're being forced to name players like Bootsma, Watson, Mitchell, Mclean and so on due to some pretty full on injury concerns

It shows how your forward line falls apart without Waite and that's a huge list management issue.

Thats why we recruited Mitchell (and Henderson) in the first place.

Also we werent expecting Fevola to implode when he did (which in hindsight we probably should have).

Would love Kennedy back. But it aint gonna happen. We are just going to have to hope Mitchell does what I reckon he's gonna do sooner rather than later.

Till then, Kruezer and Hammer will have to fill the gap.

 

[bombermick]

Fair enough Maliface. It's hard to get good tall forwards unless they're top picks, which Mitchell was not. Perhaps Watson can grab CHB and allow Henderson to play CHF, as I can't see a better option once Waite goes.

 

[Malifice]

Fair enough Maliface. It's hard to get good tall forwards unless they're top picks, which Mitchell was not.

He was a second round pick, and was prelisted by GCS as a 17 y/o before that.

His shoulders put them (and others) off him. Ability wise, he looks the goods.

Perhaps Watson can grab CHB and allow Henderson to play CHF, as I can't see a better option once Waite goes.

Also Laidler who has been fantastic (out injured) and Duigan (who is having second year blues after an injury interrupted preseason). Watson needs time. There is a school of thought that wants to try Watson at CHF. 60 metre left peg on him, but still a little slow.

Ideally we should be playing Kruezer as a primary Ruck/ rover who can push/ rest up forward (in the Cox mold). Circumstances have conspired against us however.

And we wont be drafting talls this year. We need replacements for Simpson, Judd, Scotland and Carrazzo (and additional midfield depth) before we start looking for replacements for Waite and Thornton.

 

[Paulski19]

Our tall forwards are (in terms of ability to play seniors this week):

1: Waite
2: Thornton
3: Rowe
4: Casboult
5: Mitchell

All of them are currently out injured except for Mitchell who has played 1 and a half games in the VFL in 2 years, so of course we have to play 3 rucks. We've got no one else available.

 

[Coach_Hawkeye]

As always and expected, he's one of the worst players i've ever seen.

 

[maxmustard]

In my opinion Kruezer will be an absolute gun in a year or two (injury permitting). This thread will be a joy for blues fans to bump in the future.

 

[Coach_Hawkeye]

In my opinion Kruezer will be an absolute gun in a year or two (injury permitting). This thread will be a joy for blues fans to bump in the future.

we could bump this thread when he's delisted too.

 

[maxmustard]

we could bump this thread when he's delisted too.

Sure, and if that happens I'll post saying I got it wrong. I doubt it though, very talented player coming off an acl who's body type meant he was always going to be a long term project. People are too impatient IMO.

 

[Coach_Hawkeye]

Sure, and if that happens I'll post saying I got it wrong. I doubt it though, very talented player coming off an acl who's body type meant he was always going to be a long term project. People are too impatient IMO.

i see, i guess if were patient he'll be cruisin in no time.

 

[maxmustard]

i see, i guess if were patient he'll be cruisin in no time.

Exactly, haha pay that.

 

[Gone Critical]

Our tall forwards are (in terms of ability to play seniors this week):

1: Waite
2: Thornton
3: Rowe
4: Casboult
5: Mitchell

All of them are currently out injured except for Mitchell who has played 1 and a half games in the VFL in 2 years, so of course we have to play 3 rucks. We've got no one else available.

No offence but I see this list put up frequently by Carlton posters. Waite and Thornton don't qualify as established KPF's. Rowe, Casboult and Mitchell have not played a game of AFL and the 2 younger ones have only limited VFL experience. None were early draft picks. Its speculative that any of these guys will establish themselves as even average to good KPFs and if any do its probably 2-3 seasons away.

Henderson is probably your best bet but he looks better down back. Other than that maybe trade out something good to get one. If I was Carlton I would look seriously at burning a few good players and make a massive offer to Cloke. He would solve a massive problem for you

 

[T2B_]

Kreuzer delisted?? WTF lol. Do people automatically assume this is a Bay 13 thread or something? Well it aint.

For moron trolls, Bay 13 is further down the page FYI.

 

[Monkey King]

Just on the Kreuzer/Fraser comparison. Please remember that talent was NEVER an issue for Fraser. His issue has always been a lack of heart, guts and competitive spirit. Those are 3 things Kreuzer has in spades, to go along with his obviously large amount of talent.

Yep! This is where the Fraser comparison stops. People can draw as many parallels between these players as they like (ruck, athletic etc) but the fact remains that Krezuer just doesn't play like Josh Fraser and just as importantly, doesn't have his body shape. From day one, Kreuzer has used his body strength to bustle in the packs and put his body on the line running with the flight.

 

[Gone Critical]

Yep! This is where the Fraser comparison stops. People can draw as many parallels between these players as they like (ruck, athletic etc) but the fact remains that Krezuer just doesn't play like Josh Fraser and just as importantly, doesn't have his body shape. From day one, Kreuzer has used his body strength to bustle in the packs and put his body on the line running with the flight.

Of course there are differences but there are a lot of parallels also. Kreuzer is undoubtedly more physical but Fraser played some great games as a young man against physically bigger and stronger ruckmen. He did it from very early in his career and had a big work load. Kreuzer is still a bit undersized and understrength compared to a lot of his opponents. He looks great but has been called on to do a lot as a young ruckman

 

[Leather Poisoning]

If you're disappointed in Kreuzer then you're expecting too much.

He's a really young guy who has managed to stack on a LOT of muscle in a few years and is now at a level where he competes well in the ruck and up forward. He's not getting many BOGs but he's coming off an ACL - how many players come back and dominate after that? It usually takes 12 months of footy before you get back to your 'true' formline.

I'd be extremely pleased if the hawks had Kreuzer. You don't get many big guys that have the sure hands and skills that he does. I really like watching him play.

All you want from a player that ISN'T dominating games is a huge effort and evidence of competitiveness and a will to improve. Kreuzer has this, and for this reason he will be a very fine player.

 

[Suspense]

I hear this a lot from Carlton fans that everyone would have taken him before Cotchin.

WC clearly said that if they got pick 1 (out of the Judd deal) they would have used it on Cotchin as they thought that he was one of the best youngsters to come through the system for years. Maybe WC were the only ones who thought like this or maybe half a dozen other clubs rated Cotchin higher as well.

yep, I distinctly remember Steve Woodhouse being red hot on Cotchin.

I think Kruezer will be a good player if he can get over his injury issues, but Cotchin could potentially be the best player in the game in a few years time.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Kruezer would be best served rucking 80-90% of the game and resting fwd. He will never be an elite key forward but unfortunately you have very few key forwards and plenty of rucks. But when you have a number 1 pick with plenty of talent you need to play him where he will become an elite player, and that is on the ball. It is well publicized you robbed Peter to pay Paul with the Judd and Kennedy scenario and you are paying for it when it comes to building a premiership side, because you can't manufacture quality key forward targets out of thin air. You guys need to trade Warnock for a key forward proposition.

 

[jabbers]

Yep! This is where the Fraser comparison stops. People can draw as many parallels between these players as they like (ruck, athletic etc) but the fact remains that Krezuer just doesn't play like Josh Fraser and just as importantly, doesn't have his body shape. From day one, Kreuzer has used his body strength to bustle in the packs and put his body on the line running with the flight.

I'm not going to take potshots at Kreuzer. A big bloke does take time coming off a knee and he is still clearly not quite there. Those slagging off Josh Fraser, go back and watch the 2002 GF (and 2003 for that matter). People forget how good he was early (Victorian selection etc). Collingwood screwed him by playing him as an underdeveloped ruckman as a kid and his body just fell apart about four years ago! If they'd eased him into league footy after a few years in the reserves like they should have, he'd still be playing good football.