Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?

[Brutalitops]

And has played almost 50 more games than Jack (not that the goals comparison means all that much to begin with)

So all Jack has to do is kick 6.2 goals a game for the next 50 games?

 

[woota]

So all Jack has to do is kick 6.2 goals a game for the next 50 games?

No, he's already a better player than Lance.

 

[The Joker]

Jack Reiwoldt just won his third coleman, are we comparing the right footballers. It means nothing now but 50 years down the track.

So sitting boundary side actually watching them today giving our opinions will mean nothing in 50 years because of stats?

 

[The Joker]

No, he's already a better player than Lance.

Dont be silly, seriously, just stop it!

 

[Brutalitops]

No, he's already a better player than Lance.

How so?

 

[woota]

Dont be silly, seriously, just stop it!

Jack is one of the goat contested marks and is a dual sided player. More than can be said for lance.

 

[Brutalitops]

Jack is one of the goat contested marks and is a dual sided player. More than can be said for lance.

But Buddy has more goals. A LOT more goals. The amount of goals where you see the difference and you say "Wow! That is A LOT more goals than Jack".

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Jack is one of the goat contested marks and is a dual sided player. More than can be said for lance.

Over the course of their careers, Riewoldt has averaged 1.65 contested marks a game. Franklin has averaged 1.62.

 

[The Joker]

Jack is one of the goat contested marks and is a dual sided player. More than can be said for lance.

Yeah, I'm done with this one!!!

 

[woota]

Over the course of their careers, Riewoldt has averaged 1.65 contested marks a game. Franklin has averaged 1.62.

Roflcopter @ people who just hang on a simple stat like that as though it tells the whole story. What matters is context. Jack has a habit of stepping up and taking big pack marks when his team needs it the most. Lance doesn't do that.

 

[woota]

But Buddy has more goals. A LOT more goals. The amount of goals where you see the difference and you say "Wow! That is A LOT more goals than Jack".

That means nothing. Jack gets up the ground a lot and spends big chunks of games in the defensive half. He's also played fewer games than Lance.

 

[RUNVS]

That means nothing. Jack gets up the ground a lot and spends big chunks of games in the defensive half. He's also played fewer games than Lance.

Then why is Buddy averaging more disposals and inside 50's per game than Riewoldt, especially in a year where Buddy has been playing injured?

 

[Vassp]

Richo was Franklin before Franklin, I think they are the most similar InStyle. you need to remember that Richo played in some awful Richmond teams in the day and no wonder he got frustrated- they couldn’t hit the side of a barn and some times neither could he. But he was a beast. Buddy plays similar. Buddy is One of my favourite players to watch and football is all the better with players like him in it.

But can’t compare anyone to Carey, he was just that good. Different players anyway.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Roflcopter @ people who just hang on a simple stat like that as though it tells the whole story. What matters is context. Jack has a habit of stepping up and taking big pack marks when his team needs it the most. Lance doesn't do that.

That's not what you said. You said Riewoldt is one of the great contested marks and Franklin is way off the pace. But they take roughly the same number. Now you want to give me some bullshit line about "context".

If you are talking about who is the best contested mark, then yeah, the "simple stat" of contested marks is pretty relevant, isn't it?

 

[Brutalitops]

That means nothing. Jack gets up the ground a lot and spends big chunks of games in the defensive half. He's also played fewer games than Lance.

As opposed to Lance "Never leaves the goal square" Franklin? Ive already address your second point about fewer games played.

No point bothering with you when you are clearly trolling.

 

[woota]

That's not what you said. You said Riewoldt is one of the great contested marks and Franklin is way off the pace. But they take roughly the same number. Now you want to give me some bullshit line about "context".

If you are talking about who is the best contested mark, then yeah, the "simple stat" of contested marks is pretty relevant, isn't it?

1. That's not what I said
2. No it isn't
3. I'm talking about the actual context in which the marks are taken. Most of Lance's contested marks are him on a lead with one player attempting to spoil the mark. He does not take big pack marks like Jack. Pack marks all the hallmark of a great forward. It's something that Jack excels at, and Lance doesn't.

 

[Carson Dial]

Carey has shown the ability to smack US law enforcement officers in the head, something Buddy has failed to master so far.

 

[Thrawn]

The people that think anyone with a different opinion to their own are stupid are the real imbeciles.

Yeah but some people think the Earth is flat.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

1. That's not what I said

You said: "Jack is one of the goat contested marks and is a dual sided player. More than can be said for lance."

The reality is that they take roughly the same number of contested marks.

3. I'm talking about the actual context in which the marks are taken. Most of Lance's contested marks are him on a lead with one player attempting to spoil the mark. He does not take big pack marks like Jack. Pack marks all the hallmark of a great forward. It's something that Jack excels at, and Lance doesn't.

Oh OK, the context. In other words, s**t that can't be substantiated.

 

[BEaston]

Yeah but some people think the Earth is flat.

Haha good point.

I should have put "subjective" in there somewhere.

Carey vs Franklin, there are arguments to both sides which are valid. Which side you stand on depends which arguments you personally value more. For example a lot of people value the contested marking side to Carey's game so they elevate him which is fair enough. But these are essentially subjective opinions... neither side is stupid as you can make a valid case for both.

There's nothing subjective about a round Earth.

 

[Monkey King]

Richo was Franklin before Franklin, I think they are the most similar InStyle.

Richo circa 95’ particularly, but Richo was a better mark and Buddy has better foot skills and a midfielders agility.

 

[ferball]

You'd think if Carey was winning games off his own boot "all the time" that the stats would back it up. Sadly they dont. You know why? Because with the passing of time Carey has somwhow become completely immortal and all those times he had quiet games, and was sometimes taken apart by defenders, just like every other forward in the game, seem to have been forgotten.

But they did happen, and the stats prove it. Anyone who says Carey won more games off his own boot than Franklin either hasn't watched much of Franklin, or can only remember the best of Carey, while conveniently forgetting he was human, just like everybody else.

I didn't say he won them off his own boot I said he won them by himself.

Bit of a difference between kicking goals and repeatedly winning contests all around the ground when the game is on the line.

That's where Carey was a champion. he'd win the ball and set up his teammates. I can't find his goal assist stats but he smashes Franklin on contested possessions for '99 and '00 which were the first seasons that stat was recorded during his career. Franklin has never had 200+ contested in his career, Carey probably did it every year from 1993 to 2000.

When we were down he'd go win the ball wherever it was needed and procede to set up our game.

Therefore Carey was a better player.

Franklin might have a better record as a forward but that isn't the same thing.

 

[RUNVS]

Richo circa 95’ particularly, but Richo was a better mark and Buddy has better foot skills and a midfielders agility.

The weird thing about Buddy is I would not trust him for a second 30 metres out straight in front but I don't think there has been a better player in the history of the game when he is 50 metres out on the boundary.

 

[MinerBoy]

No, he's already a better player than Lance.

Go home you're drunk.

 

[MinerBoy]

Roflcopter @ people who just hang on a simple stat like that as though it tells the whole story. What matters is context. Jack has a habit of stepping up and taking big pack marks when his team needs it the most. Lance doesn't do that.

Yeah, Buddy hates the big moments........... never delivers