Has our forward structure cost us a 3-0 start?

[banzai]

To me the 3 talls simply doesn't work and today when the game was hot early our lack of defensive pressure up forward was embarrassing. Griffiths has started well but i dont think him and especially Vickery are good enough to justify having the extra tall forward, and as we saw in the second half Jack is certainly good enough to justify only having 2 talls down there. Obviously Jake King is struggling which doesnt help but surely we are far better off playing a smaller more mobile forward line that can put pressure on the opposition. It cost us badly round 1 and i thought was the diff today as well. We had more than enough entries to win the first quarter if we had of been able to lock the ball in. Thoughts?

 

[docko911]

The reliance on Vickery as our prime target was a prime mistake. Teams don't fear Vickery like they fear Jack when he starts getting hot. We should have Jack as the primary target then when he is triple teamed us players like Vickery and Griffiths but only when they are free. I don't know if the majority of our midfielders have the skill to kick to an open man so this probably won't work either, at least if you bomb it to Jack he'll try something spectacular.

As for the smalls round 1 I think we had Petterd, a midfielder, Sheds or no one. The thing is we drafted Lloyd, Lennon (injured early) and Gordon, we have Arnot and McDonough (used at HB for some reason) who could all be playing in that crumbing role. I would have thought round 1 2 crumbers + Sheds or resting mid would have worked well in the slick conditions. Yesterday would have been the same because they offset the tall timber. We also need our tall timber running away from each other and not for the same contests. Hawthorn have proven if the right players are in the 50 then height doesn't matter... our problem is our coach can't pick the right players!

 

[Tigerland]

I wasn't sure who the forward coach was this year but I wasn't shocked to look it up and see that it is one Mark (not chocco) Williams.

Please RFC - use some of the money from the fighting tiger fund to axe him and find someone that knows what they are doing for Christ sake!

What exactly has this guy done that has ever worked?

Beyond a joke.

 

[Strawbs]

It worked well enough to finish top 5 last year.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

It worked well enough to finish top 5 last year.

2013 - Jack , Vickery, a. Edwards/mcGuanne

2014 - Jack , Griffiths, Vickery

Jack =Jack
Griffiths > 2013 Vickery
Vickery <<<< 2013 a Edwards /mcGuanne


Says it all really

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Vickery just isn't mobile enough. Teams will simply make sure they have capable agile defenders down back to mop up every time because we're essentially a man down once Vickery is out of the marking contest. Was what the Dogs did all day. You're 100% right it's just a dumb, dumb forward set up and it's killing us.

 

[BF Tiger]

TV runs in straight lines. He'd be a great player in another era.

 

[terry tanner]

It's definately part of the problem. JR8 has been sacrificed for Vickery's spudness and we got no crumbers. King is just playing for free kicks these days and we got no dangerous small forwards.

And out ball movement is pathetically slow which kills our forwards chances. So many short kicks and switching of the ball.

Move the ball fast and long, then when it hits the ground attack it like crazy.

There's a lethargy about the way they are playing. It's def poor atm.

 

[sante]

Nope. Our midfield is the reason.

Our ball movement is shithouse and when we do enter our F50, we bomb it in. Midfield is solely to blame IMO.

 

[jko'neal]

How about we play more than 25mins of decent footy a game, then judge it?

 

[tigs2010]

Nope. Our midfield is the reason.

Our ball movement is shithouse and when we do enter our F50, we bomb it in. Midfield is solely to blame IMO.

Agreed. Stood out massively yesterday. Just wish Dimma would play guys who could kick. Would speed it up a bit. Works well when the shit kicks don't get the footy. Would probably save his arse too because in a year or 2 we will probably be a better side even if we have to go a little backwards.

 

[AJ Green]

Nope. Our midfield is the reason.

Our ball movement is shithouse and when we do enter our F50, we bomb it in. Midfield is solely to blame IMO.

Yep. Not only that, the mids defensive pressure and set up would be close to the worst in the comp. We get opened up too easily when teams attack us through the middle.

 

[Livonski]

Midfield. Contested possessions. Speed of all movement.

I was listening on the radio yesterday and I'm sure it was worse than watching live. They weren't calling our names at all in q2, it was tortuous.

 

[Neen]

Slow and indirect ball movement. Play the corridor and take some risks. I still think it is top heavy, but Griffiths will develop into the CHF we have not seen for 20 years, and Jack will be dangerous 1 on 1 again.

Last year, we were able to hold the ball in the FWD 50 and then score from stoppages. Not happening this year.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Slow and indirect ball movement. Play the corridor and take some risks. I still think it is top heavy, but Griffiths will develop into the CHF we have not seen for 20 years, and Jack will be dangerous 1 on 1 again.

Last year, we were able to hold the ball in the FWD 50 and then score from stoppages. Not happening this year.

Good point, 2013 was the only year we've locked it in successfully tho, our lack of defensive pressure prior got us Nahas, who in debut year, was the only tackling fwd we had.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

King is so crap as well.... Were playing with 2 less when Vickery and King are spudding up the forward line.

It amazes me how king gets a game, I can cut Vickery some slack but king us done and dusted!!!

 

[_Wang_]

Yes

 

[Pounce]

If we are going to play a forward line consisting of three tall forwards we need small forwards that can crumb a goal once the ball hits the ground. We have relied on Shane Edwards as this one player for far too long. On his day he is capable of kicking some great goals but we need more players than just Edwards playing that role. Adding Nathan Gordon into the team was a step in the right direction. He has already shown signs of what he can do. Jake King is struggling with injury and can not crumb the ball. This is where he needs to be replaced with a more agile and dangerous goal kicking option. At the moment that looks like Sam Lloyd. We can play Lloyd deep in the forward line so he is ready to pounce once the ball falls to ground.

This would mean our forward line would look like this.

HF: Nathan Gordon, Tyrone Vickery, Ben Griffiths
FF: Shane Edwards, Jack Riewoldt, Sam Lloyd

Having a forward line like this means we have three players who are all capable of crumbing the ball and are goal scoring threats. This would stop teams running the ball out of their defence so easily and still put pressure on them if our talls forward can't mark the ball. Nathan Gordon and Shane Edwards can rotate through the midfield if needed and allow our midfielders to rest up forward. Giving us some flexibility.

 

[tigs2010]

If we are going to play a forward line consisting of three tall forwards we need small forwards that can crumb a goal once the ball hits the ground. We have relied on Shane Edwards as this one player for far too long. On his day he is capable of kicking some great goals but we need more players than just Edwards playing that role. Adding Nathan Gordon into the team was a step in the right direction. He has already shown signs of what he can do. Jake King is struggling with injury and can not crumb the ball. This is where he needs to be replaced with a more agile and dangerous goal kicking option. At the moment that looks like Sam Lloyd. We can play Lloyd deep in the forward line so he is ready to pounce once the ball falls to ground.

This would mean our forward line would look like this.

HF: Nathan Gordon, Tyrone Vickery, Ben Griffiths
FF: Shane Edwards, Jack Riewoldt, Sam Lloyd

Having a forward line like this means we have three players who are all capable of crumbing the goal and are goal scoring threats. This would stop teams running the ball out of their defence so easily and still put pressure on them if our talls forward can't mark the ball. Nathan Gordon and Shane Edwards can rotate through the midfield if needed and allow our midfielders to rest up forward. Giving us some flexibility.

Must at least consider Jarrod Pickett in the draft. He is everything we are screaming out for. A small forward with elite skills and inside midfield ability. Is so fast he can run the length of the field without anyone touching him.

 

[astro_toby]

It worked well enough to finish top 5 last year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Justin leppitch our forward coach last season?

 

[Frank Grimes]

I think the main reason why our forward line isn't functioning well is simply the stupid decision to play Reiwoldt further up the ground. He was playing up the ground in the first half and wasn't even sighted, in the second half he was moved to full forward and nearly won the game for us.

In the end I think the big mistake and reason why our start to the season isn't that great is because there were too many changes to our structure in the pre-season. The structure just needed a bit of tinkering around the edges but instead they decided to completely change it.

 

[Tiger_man322]

The problem is using Vickery as the main man. When Teams know that we are going to kick it to him 80% of the time, then they simply double team him if he is standing still or play in front because they know he is hopeless at reading the play.
We almost stole a win yesterday after we used Jack in the 2nd half as the main man. When teams start double teaming Jack, that leaves either Vickery or Griffiths free. Or at least a midfielder who can sneak into the 50 to take a mark.
That's why Jack needs to be the main man and not the other way around.

 

[Tas]

I don't like the way for the forward structure looks from the outside looking in. If I was the coach I would have Reiwoldt at full forward and demand that he lead and be mobile, he is 10x better player than when he tries to wrestle.

I would use Vickery as the secondary option who starts out wide and pushes to near the goal square once Reiwoldt leads out, if Jack is then zoned the secondary option is to put the ball out to the top of the goal square where Vickery will get more one-on-one contests where he isn't just sitting under the ball.

Griffiths to play CHF, start about 40m out of goal and lead out to 50-60m out from goal, should draw his opponent out leaving a hole for Reiwoldt to lead into, if his man sags off to drop in front of Reiwoldt then the midfield must hit up Griffiths to start to make his man accountable.

I think a big problem with a lot of Richmond's inside 50s is they are kicking it to where the forward is rather than where they should be, out on a lead. It is great the forwards can take contested marks but you will get a lot more easier uncontested marks if you put it to the player's advantage and make the defenders have to work harder to spoil.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

If we were fair dinkum about it we'd be 3-0. That is the reality, it's an endightment on the players and on the coaching staff, and it's pathetic.

The talent is out there, injuries or not.

 

[Ralll]

Hopefully we have finished this whole Vickery main target thing, after yesterday switching back to Jack for great results.