Universal Love Has the VFL coverage arrived?!?! (Latest update: Round 8 v Casey have been uploaded)

[Good_Old]

Bump

The club have uploaded the round 5 game v Richmond up on the website. Links in OP

Anyone would think that you're a mod or something.

 

[TradeDraft]

Anyone would think that you're a mod or something.

Think he posts more now without being a Mod

 

[76woodenspooners]

Bump.

Round 7 game v Coburg has been uploaded to the club website.

Links in OP.

 

[TradeDraft]

Bump.

Round 7 game v Coburg has been uploaded to the club website.

Links in OP.

Keep the Great Work up with this Thread 76woodenspooners

 

[Knightmare]

Just watched the game thanks to the Collingwood website. Am looking out for it weekly as my new favourite feature on the Pies website. I won't post in this thread every week and likely it will be in some VFL review thread or elsewhere, but you can bet your money I'm watching these games thanks to the Pies website every week and will continue to ongoing.

For some game notes.

I didn't enjoy the defensive breakdowns. Letting Coburg score easily at times. We didn't provide enough pressure around the ball or make it hard enough with Coburg got it out of the middle, resulting in some easier scores than should have occurred. But otherwise we were the stronger team.

On some of the players.

Ben Reid was taking many of the kickouts. The thing I look for with Reid that tells me when he is flying is his kicking. And the news with Reid by foot was he was conservative, looking for short-medium targets, and actually a couple of times hit and miss with his kicks. So fair to say he isn't ready to go or all that confident yet in his play.

Clinton Young the other player to return showed some signs but it was signs rather than a complete game so like Reid he needs more time in the 2s. A few long kicks and a willingness to take on the game with his run got me excited on a number of plays. So he can still play and has something to offer. But just needs those games under his belt.

Mason Cox was terrific and dominating Coburg's shorter ruckmen, seemingly getting the hitout what felt like seven if not eight times out of ten. He also took an encouraging mark forward of centre which was a great sign.

Marsh for me was our best and has been for a few weeks now our better VFL performer and pushing very hard for AFL selection with his form on that level where he is knocking down the door at the selection table now. He is taking intecept marks and 1v1 marks which was something I'd not seen from Marsh last year, and on one occasion provided some meaningful run and carry just using his full burst of acceleration and that was fun to watch. It's that run I'd like to see more and more of with Marsh. But the update is progressing well, consistently performing to a high level at VFL level and ready to play in the 1s which is something to look forward to over the coming weeks with some luck.

Tim Broomhead along with Marsh was that second outstanding player where he was just that class above everyone else on the field. Found the ball. Won the hard ball. Finished around goal easily. Classy and precise ball use. He should be playing in the 1s next week off that performance.

Matthew Scharenberg was back to playing good footy and is another who is ready to play in the 1s as soon as an opening presents. Found plenty of it, took his share of marks down back. Got his stops. Used it soundly and wasn't turning it over or looking rushed. He's ready.

Tony Armstrong while seemingly not a fan favourite as someone who has since joining the club been deemed amongst fans as a depth player. But I'm liking his play. I'm not totally down on him. His ball use and class with ball in hand may be the best on the team (and I'm talking amongst all 43/45 players). He just precisely hits his targets every time, lowers his eyes and hits them lace out right in front. When pressures he is never rushed and doesn't turn over the ball, he just remains composed and does something constructive with it. I just wish we played him on a forward flank, if we make that move I think Armstrong instantly becomes an option for us and someone who would then push for a best 22 position.

Kennedy while productive as always I'd like to see him have more of an impact. In the VFL every week he may get 30 disposals or thereabouts, but it's a quiet 30. I'm just not feeling that buzzing energy I should be seeing from a little guy, and I'm not feeling that offensive influence. Safe ball use. Getting cheap possessions and then not doing anything with it. I'd like to see him get some minutes up forward and put the onus on him to really amp up that pressure game. I'd be interested then to see how he goes with that.

Karnezis/Dwyer/Gault all fairly unimpressive.

Of the young players to give out some kudos. Abbott for me of those other first years is the one who is probably showing me the most. He has had a good few weeks now and up forward has proven dangerous around goal and is also pushing up the field and getting involved. So he is starting to have an impact at this level with over the past month anyway some frequency which is good progress and something I look forward to seeing more of.
Maynard ok. Goodyear and Manteit were not major factors.


Of the VFL boys Still remains by VFL standards an excellent key forward. I don't advocate picking him up for our AFL team, but if we could sign him to a 5 year VFL deal I would. Ryan Pendlebury also continues to have a strong season and shows those slight inklings of Scott with some of his kicks which can only be a good thing.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Am loving the replays but to briefly bitch about a free service the club is providing, the camera work was a bit iffy this round!

 

[35Daicos]

Matthew Scharenberg was back to playing good footy and is another who is ready to play in the 1s as soon as an opening presents. Found plenty of it, took his share of marks down back. Got his stops. Used it soundly and wasn't turning it over or looking rushed. He's ready.

Always a good read, Knightmare. Pretty much everyone else has said that Scharenberg is slowly but surely getting there, but not yet ready for senior football, so really interesting to see that you feel he's ready to go now.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Am loving the replays but to briefly bitch about a free service the club is providing, the camera work was a bit iffy this round!

Haven't watched it myself but I reckon it would have been a difficult ground to film at

 

[Knightmare]

Always a good read, Knightmare. Pretty much everyone else has said that Scharenberg is slowly but surely getting there, but not yet ready for senior football, so really interesting to see that you feel he's ready to go now.

My major criticism of Scharenberg at the moment is he isn't taking over/influencing games heavily. He isn't kicking it 60m, taking countless intercept marks, dominating 1v1s etc. Instead he fits more in the area of he is just playing good, perhaps even very good general footy.

But otherwise I'm looking at his game as relatively pretty complete and as having a better rounded game than probably any other general defender on our list.

If playing in the 1s to give you some feel, I expect his impact to be fairly similar to Langdon last year. Perhaps slightly but marginally less accumulation/intercept marks, but otherwise as good or better in other areas.

Scharenberg is improving and playing better every week so I'd expect not only with senior games for him to establish himself as a regular but to also once in there to push past a number of those regular general defenders in terms of what he offers.

 

[RGpies]

My major criticism of Scharenberg at the moment is he isn't taking over/influencing games heavily. He isn't kicking it 60m, taking countless intercept marks, dominating 1v1s etc. Instead he fits more in the area of he is just playing good, perhaps even very good general footy.

But otherwise I'm looking at his game as relatively pretty complete and as having a better rounded game than probably any other general defender on our list.

If playing in the 1s to give you some feel, I expect his impact to be fairly similar to Langdon last year. Perhaps slightly but marginally less accumulation/intercept marks, but otherwise as good or better in other areas.

Scharenberg is improving and playing better every week so I'd expect not only with senior games for him to establish himself as a regular but to also once in there to push past a number of those regular general defenders in terms of what he offers.

Do you advocate for pies selecting him on what you have seen so far and what he can offer with improvement or is that about what you expected from sharenberg as a safe bet? Excluding the injuries...

 

[Knightmare]

Do you advocate for pies selecting him on what you have seen so far and what he can offer with improvement or is that about what you expected from sharenberg as a safe bet? Excluding the injuries...

Nothing is too surprising with Scharenberg. Have seen his form in the SANFL at League level and through the u18 champs pre-draft. Have seen him at VFL level. So I'm aware of what he can/can't do and the level of his play.

His play at SANFL League level was on a slightly but still higher level than his VFL form so he has strong scope to continue to improve on what he is currently doing, and as he plays more games in the VFL he is continuing to improve.

He is someone I currently from a best 22 perspective regard today as a best 22 player and someone who should with games and time cement his position as a regular and with a stretch of games start even pushing past some of those other defenders at AFL level.

Scharenberg injuries permitting I'd consider a fairly safe bet for now and into the future. That isn't to say he becomes one of our best few on our list or a future A-grader, but he has an opportunity to in time become a best 10 player on our list if things go right.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Bump

Round 8 video versus Casey has been loaded on the club website.

Links in OP

 

[Knightmare]

Watched the replay of the game on the Pies website Sunday after that days action of the u18 champs. So that worked out perfectly.

Reid was excellent.

Young's kicking in that game was really awful. The eye test suggested 9/10 kicks were to opposition targets. The ratio would not in reality be that high, but his kicking just was not even close which was concerning and telling of where his confidence is at.

I won't comment on every player.

But the final player, and to anyone watching the VFL every week it should be becoming increasingly obvious. But the player we should all be talking about is Jon Marsh. The young fella is just terrific. Winning his 1v1s and beating his opponent fine. But this year has added intercept marking ability and 1v1 marking ability. So he is reading it better, getting stronger. And this week particularly he also was providing some meaningful run and carry, taking on the game offering meaningful run, at least twice, and it was terrific to see because no one on our list runs like Marsh. He just keeps improving and keeps adding to his game. So he is knocking down the door at the selection table and will be due a game over the coming weeks.
Along with Crisp, no one is impressing me more than Marsh at the moment, just from a pure improvement perspective, just continuing to perform and continuing to add to his game and perform above any preseason projections anyone would have had of him.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Marsh still has some work to do on his disposal based on the big I've watched so far.

But then Toovey, Williams and Frost can all stuff up by foot as well.

Think he should be next cab off the rank in defence, but think he will then become a whipping boy for those on here who like that kind of thing.

 

[Knightmare]

Marsh still has some work to do on his disposal based on the big I've watched so far.

But then Toovey, Williams and Frost can all stuff up by foot as well.

Think he should be next cab off the rank in defence, but think he will then become a whipping boy for those on here who like that kind of thing.

You're right about Marsh's kicking. He is arguably the worst kick on our team list with Williams and Frost those other contenders.

But like Williams and Frost. He is just playing really good footy. He'd be leading our VFL B+F by some way I'd suggest with the consistency and strength of his performances every week. So you're completely right about that.

While I'm harder than most on poor kicks. I feel Marsh even as a poor kick is someone fans will really embrace (and that is something always speculative until we see it). He is no scrub with his performances on the board incredibly impressive for a second year key position player (so fans will be accepting from that standpoint), continues to improve rapidly, and then if he can at AFL level apply that running ability. I can see him becoming a fan favourite pretty quickly just because he is doing so much, and from such a late draft pick. He's a good story.

 

[TradeDraft]

You're right about Marsh's kicking. He is arguably the worst kick on our team list with Williams and Frost those other contenders.

But like Williams and Frost. He is just playing really good footy. He'd be leading our VFL B+F by some way I'd suggest with the consistency and strength of his performances every week. So you're completely right about that.

While I'm harder than most on poor kicks. I feel Marsh even as a poor kick is someone fans will really embrace (and that is something always speculative until we see it). He is no scrub with his performances on the board incredibly impressive for a second year key position player (so fans will be accepting from that standpoint), continues to improve rapidly, and then if he can at AFL level apply that running ability. I can see him becoming a fan favourite pretty quickly just because he is doing so much, and from such a late draft pick. He's a good story.

Williams and Frost are Playing in the AFL. So his Bad Kicking won’t hold Marsh back. I actually think Frost and Marsh a very Similar Players. Both Very Athletic

 

[Knightmare]

Williams and Frost are Playing in the AFL. So his Bad Kicking won’t hold Marsh back. I actually think Frost and Marsh a very Similar Players. Both Very Athletic

Both are exceptionally athletic key defenders.

Frost at this stage is the more established stopper. And more of a third man in spoiler.

Where Marsh is ahead of Frost is 1v1 marking, intercept marking and then unlike Frost with ball in hand he doesn't look like a deer caught in headlights and will willingly when he has the footy take on the game with his run, or is starting to do more of it as he did as a junior.

So that's where the differences are.

Marsh with a few more, and a few more important tricks as someone who also brings some offence to go with the defence has the opportunity to be the better pro, with things two seasons in projecting that way anyway with the sheer rate of progress. So it's on Marsh to continue that and force his way past Frost and Brown and through performance become a long term player.

 

[TradeDraft]

Both are exceptionally athletic key defenders.

Frost at this stage is the more established stopper. And more of a third man in spoiler.

Where Marsh is ahead of Frost is 1v1 marking, intercept marking and then unlike Frost with ball in hand he doesn't look like a deer caught in headlights and will willingly when he has the footy take on the game with his run, or is starting to do more of it as he did as a junior.

So that's where the differences are.

Marsh with a few more, and a few more important tricks as someone who also brings some offence to go with the defence has the opportunity to be the better pro, with things two seasons in projecting that way anyway with the sheer rate of progress. So it's on Marsh to continue that and force his way past Frost and Brown and through performance become a long term player.

Just Depends when Marsh get’s his Chance and AFL Level.

Has come on really well I agree since we Drafted him at Pick 73 in the 2013 Draft.

Happy we Picked him instead of getting Jake Kelly. Marsh has way more upside then Kelly

 

[pieanitis]

You're right about Marsh's kicking. He is arguably the worst kick on our team list with Williams and Frost those other contenders.

But like Williams and Frost. He is just playing really good footy. He'd be leading our VFL B+F by some way I'd suggest with the consistency and strength of his performances every week. So you're completely right about that.

While I'm harder than most on poor kicks. I feel Marsh even as a poor kick is someone fans will really embrace (and that is something always speculative until we see it). He is no scrub with his performances on the board incredibly impressive for a second year key position player (so fans will be accepting from that standpoint), continues to improve rapidly, and then if he can at AFL level apply that running ability. I can see him becoming a fan favourite pretty quickly just because he is doing so much, and from such a late draft pick. He's a good story.

Any reason why you think Maynard got the nod as emergency over Marsh this week? Maynard had 2 possies in a half of footy and prior to that has been ok without setting the world on fire. That's definitely not a knock as i dont expect too much from first year players and i like the kid. Just perplexed why he would be put forward over Marsh who has been in terrific form, is fitter, stronger (as you'd expect) and is quicker so therefore can play on a number of types in the backline. May i add that I don't subscribe to the theory they are giving Maynard match day experience as that flys in the face of everything the club seems to stand for at the moment-which is reward the ressie players who are performing at vfl level-think Broomy, Kennedy and De Goey etc.
Marsh has to be frustrated when he sees Maynard's name up for emergency instead of his. If it's a horses for courses thing as i believe Marsh should be ahead of Brayden as he has a bit more flexibility in the roles he can play which is just about anywhere in the Backline (except on the monster forwards at this stage).
I know there's a mixture of questions and statements there KM, however im keen on your thoughts NM?

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Think with Marsh vs Maynard as emergencies this past week, we're assuming that the club doesn't talk to the players at all beyond posting the team up. I'm sure the development coaches etc are talking to both.

 

[Knightmare]

Any reason why you think Maynard got the nod as emergency over Marsh this week? Maynard had 2 possies in a half of footy and prior to that has been ok without setting the world on fire. That's definitely not a knock as i dont expect too much from first year players and i like the kid. Just perplexed why he would be put forward over Marsh who has been in terrific form, is fitter, stronger (as you'd expect) and is quicker so therefore can play on a number of types in the backline. May i add that I don't subscribe to the theory they are giving Maynard match day experience as that flys in the face of everything the club seems to stand for at the moment-which is reward the ressie players who are performing at vfl level-think Broomy, Kennedy and De Goey etc.
Marsh has to be frustrated when he sees Maynard's name up for emergency instead of his. If it's a horses for courses thing as i believe Marsh should be ahead of Brayden as he has a bit more flexibility in the roles he can play which is just about anywhere in the Backline (except on the monster forwards at this stage).
I know there's a mixture of questions and statements there KM, however im keen on your thoughts NM?

Maynard hasn't wowed me at VFL level, as with the other first year players bar De Goey and Moore who both have been terrific. Abbott as one example on performance today is another I feel has also outperformed Maynard (albeit in a different position, and it also should be noted Abbott is a year older). So seeing Maynard as an emergency took me by surprise anyway.

I can only assume one of our general defenders was in doubt and we saw Maynard as that next best available alternative, with options seemingly low among out general defence stocks. And the club obviously didn't think Scharenberg was quite ready, which feels like the reason for it.

In terms of who is ahead. Marsh is clearly ahead of Maynard from a selection and form standpoint. Marsh is really doing a great job this season. So at this stage I don't even think that is a discussion. Marsh is playing genuine best 22 standard football. Maynard is still a developing player and ideally doesn't play quite yet as someone who has yet to dominate at VFL level.

 

[TradeDraft]

Maynard hasn't wowed me at VFL level, as with the other first year players bar De Goey and Moore who both have been terrific. Abbott as one example on performance today is another I feel has also outperformed Maynard (albeit in a different position, and it also should be noted Abbott is a year older). So seeing Maynard as an emergency took me by surprise anyway.

I can only assume one of our general defenders was in doubt and we saw Maynard as that next best available alternative, with options seemingly low among out general defence stocks. And the club obviously didn't think Scharenberg was quite ready, which feels like the reason for it.

In terms of who is ahead. Marsh is clearly ahead of Maynard from a selection and form standpoint. Marsh is really doing a great job this season. So at this stage I don't even think that is a discussion. Marsh is playing genuine best 22 standard football. Maynard is still a developing player and ideally doesn't play quite yet as someone who has yet to dominate at VFL level.

Marsh and Maynard are different Type of Players. Marsh is a Tall where Maynard is a Medium Defender that has Potential to go in the Midfield

 

[pieanitis]

Think with Marsh vs Maynard as emergencies this past week, we're assuming that the club doesn't talk to the players at all beyond posting the team up. I'm sure the development coaches etc are talking to both.

Wouldn't of thought that would make it any less frustrating for Marsh. Would love to hear the discussion and how they would justify putting Maynard who is just doing his job ahead of Marsh who is in brilliant form.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Wouldn't of thought that would make it any less frustrating for Marsh. Would love to hear the discussion and how they would justify putting Maynard who is just doing his job ahead of Marsh who is in brilliant form.

Could be as simple as "we're naming him as an emergency to give the young bloke some encouragement, but don't worry, this doesn't mean that you've dropped in our thinking about a senior spot. Keep going, you're doing great".

 

[76woodenspooners]

Any reason why you think Maynard got the nod as emergency over Marsh this week?

Consider the following factors ...

(1) Two weeks in a row the VFL played before the seniors.

(2) Marsh had been named emergency the previous week

(3) Emergencies must be ready to play seniors in case of ... well ... an emergency. When the VFL plays first, this often means limiting the player to only a half of footy. (IIRC Maynard only played a half against Casey, not sure how much gametime Marsh got against Coburg)

(4) Marsh and Maynard are developing players who need all the gametime they can get.

(5) Club might have felt that neither player was much chance to be called up for emergency duties.

In summary, it was probably better for Marsh to play a full VFL game this week, than playing a half two weeks in a row.

Apropos nothing: Doesn't bode well for Armstrong if Maynard is picked as an emergency ahead of him.