Opinion Has the year been a success?

[Libba39]

If you look back at last year where we finished off really well and played great footy against the swans as well as beating a few teams, you'd have to say that this year was not a success. 7 wins so far from a weak draw, none against top 8 sides, still no key fwd or back, and several senior players who treaded water or went backwards.
Thank god for bont, hrovat, stringer and macrae, and wood playing nearly a full season.

 

[Next Waiting]

I think the lack of onfield leadership and decision making from the senior players was very much exposed this year. That's not to detract from what they offer around the club etc, but in game situations, none of our senior players exhibit the composure and leadership that we associate with the Hodges, Selwoods, Mitchells and Pendleburys et al of the league. This has been a significant weakness of the list for a long period of time in my view. The good news is that these qualities are in abundance in Bonts and present in Macrae, Stringer and Hrovat which makes the future look a lot brighter. So we confirmed the short comings and limitations of the older group and exposed the upside of the younger group in that regard. Both a success and a failure.
I'd like to see Griff return to half back flank in tandem with Murphy next year. I think he's a natural half back, and the need for a counter attacking half back (or 2) is pressing. An obvious choice for mine, on our list, under our noses. I think his decision making gets exposed under pressure in the midfield and he can lack composure there under those circumstances. The younger players mentioned above seem far more able in this regard while Griff's talents would be a very strong hand for us at half back.
Roughy I think is learning the defensive side of the game but not necessarily with that as the end in mind. He will be quite uniquely placed to play 3 key positions at the conclusion of his learnings there. Personally, I see him forward rotating with Campbell in the ruck. But where his defensive training is likely to be of benefit is in a big game down the track where a ruckman (or 2) is forward in a close game. Roughy may well be able to defend better than most ruckman can attack. With 4 interchange and no sub he'll be a valuable player.
Jones has been my biggest disappointment. I just don't see a future for him as a second forward with that as the only string to his bow and he's not good enough imo to be the number one target. We need Cameron plus Carlisle or Talia (Crows).
Success or failure overall. A mixed bag with the biggest successes being game time into some serious young talent and the development opportunities that our own VFL team affords us.

 

[krisholio14]

Treading water this year, for all growth we saw in our kids we seemed to make the same mistakes as we did last year.

Still on the fence regarding our coach / direction however ...

The learning & teaching explanations to losses won't wash with me next year.

They shouldn't have to.

The skill execution will improve markedly between now and this time next year, and so will the win column

 

[Ant_]

They shouldn't have to.

The skill execution will improve markedly between now and this time next year, and so will the win column

Time will tell...and I hope you're right

 

[krisholio14]

Time will tell...and I hope you're right

I see it this way... 2014 has been a year for the baton to be passed from the old to the new. If the young fellas coming through aren't going to cut the mustard, there is usually a dramatic falling away that is visible in the win column. You have held ground, and that's a good sign in my books. With another pre season under the belt, these young fellas will be ready to start fully asserting themselves. The team wasn't as far away from it this year as most think.

But here's another angle.... in 2010 you and St Kilda played in a preliminary final for the second year running, with lists that were of very similar make ups experience wise. In 2014, they are going to win their umpteenth wooden spoon, while the Dogs have unveiled a core of exciting young kids that you can build a perennial contender around.

So yeah, you might have only matched what you did last year in the W/L stakes, but underneath that there are a mountain of positives.

 

[Metal]

2 important considerations when assessing our performance -

1. Check out TAC games. In developing young players, winning is not the sole objective. You might find forwards playing back and backs playing forward, for example. Teaching players does not involve just playing to their strengths. Which is why so many posters fail to understand team selections each week.

2. Check out the hole in the middle ages of our group. We are wildly inconsistent because of the missing gap. To build a side from ground up, you begin with a group of young players and put them through their paces to see if they measure up to the intense learning required to play outside their comfort zone. By the time this group reaches mid age, they will provide the basis upon which we can achieve success. But it will take time as we blood more youngsters until we have a large contingent of quality moving through.

To say we have failed this year is to completely misunderstand what we are trying to do.

Ask yourself why Jong was left to play on Hanneberry for most of the game last week.

 

[DogBites]

Suspect this year was all about development.
Young talls developing with Footscray instead of see-sawing in and out of the firsts (especially the forwards who for last 2 or 3 years come in, get the ball kicked on top of their heads where they get to wrestle with stronger opponents, then get dropped).
Cream of the young guys (mostly midfielders, and happily with composure) getting the majority of games this year, the others getting a taste.
I don't think we've really seen close to the team that will take us forward over the next few years on the field together this year.
Like many others, after 2 years treading water, I want to see some real improvement next season.
Looking forward with interest to round 1 team 2015.
Of course I might be wrong

 

[Dry Rot]

2020??!

Do you ever tire of talking us down at any and every opportunity?

Maybe you should take on the argument rather than personal insults?

 

[Dry Rot]

2020??!

Do you ever tire of talking us down at any and every opportunity?

Yes, Mr Positive

I would rather have been repeatedly punched by someone who was constantly screaming "The Bulldogs are a million miles away from the top sides! Understand?" than have watched today's game. Would have been a less painful and depressing way of that point being rammed home to me.

Absolutely excruciating to watch.

Our disposal was absolutely terrible today. If there is a side that makes more skill errors than us, God help them. Depressingly it was our more skilled players making them just as much as the battlers.

I'm absolutely convinced Shaun Higgins will not be at the club next year. Disinterested, passionless and looked like he didn't want to be out there.

It was so depressing to watch as basically Sydney are the mirror image of everything we are not - clinical, fast and strong. Their forward line is a mirror image of exactly what ours is not.

I've mentioned this before but Mark Austin simply is not AFL standard and cannot be part of the side going forward.

Koby Stevens has the awareness of a drunk truck driver driving blind folded. Yes, he has a heart and is courageous but I just cannot see what value he brings to the side and like Austin shouldn't be a part of the long term plan.

Jake Stringer's miss in the 3rd quarter was so bad I literally nearly cried.

There are so many issues with the side at the moment to list them all I'd probably be here till tomorrow.

The positives:

Cordy did ok I thought. Was good in the ruck and was at least making contests in the forward line.

Macrae got plenty of it as usual.

Hrovat was very good.

Bonti whilst not having a lot of it was classy when he did have it

It's almost spring time.

We'll probably still beat GWS.

Alcohol tastes good.

 

[Proffessor]

I find the number of people assessing the season as a success interesting considering our ladder position.

From the comments it appears that to some, assessing anything as a failure is to suggest that there have been absolutely no positives or that such a result is somehow 'unacceptable'.

I'm not sure what 'unacceptable' means in this sort of situation. Our results are what they are, we have no choice but to accept them.

Recognising mistakes and failure is critical to be able to succeed. Typically people learn a lot more from their mistakes/failures than they do from their successes, but of course they need to recognise their failures to do so.

 

[krisholio14]

Who says the failures are not being acknowledged? You have to fail first in order to succeed. To learn how to win, you need to have experienced the bitter taste of defeat.

It's like watching a baby learn to walk. They fall over dozens of times before they can do it, and longer again before they are steady enough on their feet to remain upright. And this is after long periods of crawling and standing while holding on to things. It's all part of the growing process.

 

[DognBones]

Who says the failures are not being acknowledged? You have to fail first in order to succeed. To learn how to win, you need to have experienced the bitter taste of defeat.
It's like watching a baby learn to walk. They fall over dozens of times before they can do it, and longer again before they are steady enough on their feet to remain upright. And this is after long periods of crawling and standing while holding on to things. It's all part of the growing process.

The baby to whom you refer has become a very old man with limited mobility.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Lots of food for though the question is Dann if u were the admin of the club and had not extended the coaches contract based on the last 3 years would you? Or in the least would u call for a serious review?
I think we shot ourselves in the foot on this one.

I give our current direction another year (and that's one year - no more) before I start asking serious questions. This year we passed the baton from the 'old' to the 'new' and there is now no foreseeable or reasonable reason that we drop off from here. It should be all uphill.

I don't quite expect a finals berth next year but if our positives don't begin to combine and show in terms of results next year - save for horrendous injury/other circumstances - we are treading water.

 

[Leon]

Maybe you should take on the argument rather than personal insults?

Yes, Mr Positive

a) I didn't insult you

b) I criticise and am negative towards players when I feel it is warranted, unlike you who does it in every single thread, year after year. The ironic thing about you is that you constantly have a go at anyone who has a positive opinion, yet if someone has a go at you for your constant negativity, you instantly arc up and act all pompous about it

c) Saying we are not going to make the finals until 2020 is ridiculous. How much can footy change over the course of six years??


This is probably your favourite period of supporting the club isn't it...I mean we're struggling, rebuilding and have some issues so it means you can constantly make negative predictions and be close to the mark most of the time.

God help you if we ever win a premiership...what will you have to be negative about?!?!?

 

[dogzrule]

Looking forward with interest to round 1 team 2015.
Of course I might be wrong

Poll who things Austin will be named ??

 

[Proffessor]

Who says the failures are not being acknowledged? You have to fail first in order to succeed. To learn how to win, you need to have experienced the bitter taste of defeat.

It's like watching a baby learn to walk. They fall over dozens of times before they can do it, and longer again before they are steady enough on their feet to remain upright. And this is after long periods of crawling and standing while holding on to things. It's all part of the growing process.

Who says the failures are not being acknowledged?

I do, at least not properly. Vague clichés about youth learning the game simply don't cut it as far as I'm concerned. The results of the survey also suggest that there are many others that are not recognising a lot of our issues either.

I think the majority of our problems are not related to our overstated youth and are not likely to be mitigated with a little natural growth and progression. Issues such as poor team selection, poor tactics, poor list management, poor foot skills and poor contested marking, aren't miraculously solved over a pre-season just because players get a little older and spend some more time in the gym.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Areas of our game have improved massively this year.

Ball movement, forward structure (understanding between Crameri and Stringer in particular where to lead to how to use space) and outside spread.

At times we've looked fearsome going forward. And thats a good thing because the more goals you score the more likely you are to win.

Our defensive structure and pressure at the ball remains a mess however. Teams score against us far to easily, I'm hoping as guys who are first and second year players mature (I'm thinking J-Mac in particular) they won't switch off as much, but it needs to impressed upon them the importance of improving this area if we are to win more games. Cooney and Higgins (might be gone anyway) who aren't exactly strong two way runners and hardened tacklers probably aren't helping in this regard.

It's one of the reasons why one of our best endurance athletes who aplies defensive pressure Jason Tutt needs to be in this side (I'm going insane writing this again).

It's not just as simple getting better key defenders altough they clearly need to improve in performance as well. Team defence. Christ I'm sounding like Ross Lyon. Kill me.

 

[SonOfScray]

Ultimately, no. Why? We didn't win the flag.
Did we get some value out of the journey, yes. 2014 has given us plenty of experience and feedback by which we can measure ourselves, adjust and go again. That is a good thing, but it isn't the same as success. Let's keep the growth mind set alive.

 

[krisholio14]

Who says the failures are not being acknowledged?

I do, at least not properly. Vague clichés about youth learning the game simply don't cut it as far as I'm concerned. The results of the survey also suggest that there are many others that are not recognising a lot of our issues either.

I think the majority of our problems are not related to our overstated youth and are not likely to be mitigated with a little natural growth and progression. Issues such as poor team selection, poor tactics, poor list management, poor foot skills and poor contested marking, aren't miraculously solved over a pre-season just because players get a little older and spend some more time in the gym.

How many examples are there in league history of a coach taking over a team that needs rebuilding, then got then to become a sustainably successful side within the first two or three years?

 

[lachy]

Great Reply - I may not agree at all with the second answer about beating Richmond (who went of to lose 7 in a row) GCFC (first week no Yablett) or Collingwood (who have been average at best all year) and losing a bunch of winnables (poor teams make a habit of losing when they should be winning).

My concern, and i ask you for your opinion, has to do with player management, selection and positional structures which have been haphazard and bewildering all year (coupled with game day blunders)

Here is what is unjustifiable to my mind: (Dannn whats ur take on...)

-Playing with one sole ruckman all year (then dropping him and playing two new ruckman together as if 1 minson = 1campbell + 1 cordy
for mine Campbell and Cordy should both have notched up at least 8 games each this year alongside minson and helped out)
-Higgins and Dahls role - both were below par no matter what the stat sheets say because they are not able to play those positions effectively (horses for course) some players can play anywhere others cant simple and btw do we really need dahl in the middle?
-Playing injured players (no explanation needed)
-Selecting players straight back after 3-4week injuries without a vfl game or two
-extremely harsh on some (Macrea vs Cooney)- soft as butter on others
-grinding roughhead into the ground
-Not getting games into guys like Talia and Roberts for Austin

The coach is laboriously consistent with the message he wants to award effort, yet we have seen quite the opposite

The Athenian, great post on your position.

Agree the one ruck week in week out hand been strange, not just from a team balance point of view but as it may have cooked Minson

Higgins and Dahl. Higgins I think is an ok afl player. Understand the thinking off half back, but his skills are way over rated by many of our supporters. Defensive intensity which is very different to defence would need to improve to be up forward or in the mid. As for Dahl, probably a transition year and experience in the middle will bode well for him in the future so have no issue with this

Selecting injured players, makes no sense at all

Certain players coming straight back into the AFL team fully agree

Coaches should know there players so the McCrae comments were ok but he would not want to make a habit of it

Roughhead should have gone for the op 4 weeks ago. I rate him as a player with much greater versatility than a lot on this board.

Tallia and Roberts, really hope this was purely development taking advantage of have our own VFL team. Next year will tell us something there

Austin is a borderline AFL player, let alone a KPP

My only comment is Mc and coaching group are more than one person. I have my doubts but waiting to see what 3 years development starts to bring us next season

 

[dogwatch]

Some people in this thread have questioned the value of Dahlhaus or they make allowance for him struggling slightly because he has transitioned to more of a midfield role. I think there might be a tendency to think he's only been average because that's how his last couple of games have been played. In fact I think he's had a very good season and the Ching votes show a lot of posters agree. His recent games have been OK but well below his best. It may just be that he's cooked or injured and is ready for a break.

 

[Mattdougie]

Ummmm I'm gonna go with NO

 

[Toastman]

VFL side, Bontempelli, Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Crameri, Wood, Fletcher Roberts... . No question in my mind that it has been a success.

 

[Some Idiot]

After tonight I'd have to lean towards failure. Not that it really matters.

 

[stmookeyj]

Heard a caller on SEN tonight mention the fine line between winning and losing today not just becoming the reason for on field success, but also off field success. This loss will no doubt translate into worse timeslots for next year (Sunday Interstate Twilights, home games at least desirable starting times). The fact that we are now contemplating being even more irrelevant when it comes to fixturing and scheduling as a result of the season we've had surely is a massive long term worry.