Opinion Has this Carlton list already peaked?

[carlton_99]

It's not as simple as that though.

Geelong finished top 4 for points scored in several seasons where the forward line was a weakness.

The burden goes on other players to be more attack minded and not be able to support the defence. High points for and against can just end up a readout of an attacking game plan.

It usually gets found out in finals, as it did for Geelong on many occasions. Having a fleet of small forwards who can create, pressure and score makes a critical difference. It is tougher to score as many mark and lead goals in finals.

I wouldn't use points for alone as a measure of anything - I was just staying on topic after Fadge made the comment about our points for being inflated by games against North/Tigers.

Carlton's forward line was surprisingly incredibly efficient in 2024. I say "surprisingly" because to the eye it still seemed like there were heaps of areas for improvement including delivery inside 50 from the midfield, pressure inside 50, small forward positioning/crumbing and key forward leading patterns. These areas are why I was happy to move on Owies and why I am still an advocate of JSOS as a forward rather than a defender.

Just looking at Wheelo and in 2024 we were ranked very high in the following categories to support the above.

• Goal scorers: 8.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Goals/inside 50: 26.4 per game (#1 in AFL)
• Set shots/inside 50: 47.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Tackles inside 50: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)
• Scores from stoppage: 37.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)
• Scores from turnover: 52.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)

So overall I do think we were a fairly strong offensive team in 2024 - the issues were largely our ability to defend stoppage which went from the best in the comp in 2023 to bottom 3 in 2024.

 

[Mr Meow]

I wouldn't use points for alone as a measure of anything - I was just staying on topic after Fadge made the comment about our points for being inflated by games against North/Tigers.

Carlton's forward line was surprisingly incredibly efficient in 2024. I say "surprisingly" because to the eye it still seemed like there were heaps of areas for improvement including delivery inside 50 from the midfield, pressure inside 50, small forward positioning/crumbing and key forward leading patterns. These areas are why I was happy to move on Owies and why I am still an advocate of JSOS as a forward rather than a defender.

Just looking at Wheelo and in 2024 we were ranked very high in the following categories to support the above.

• Goal scorers: 8.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Goals/inside 50: 26.4 per game (#1 in AFL)
• Set shots/inside 50: 47.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Tackles inside 50: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)
• Scores from stoppage: 37.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)
• Scores from turnover: 52.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)

So overall I do think we were a fairly strong offensive team in 2024 - the issues were largely our ability to defend stoppage which went from the best in the comp in 2023 to bottom 3 in 2024.

Yeah that makes sense. It does seem that score differential from turnovers Carlton were elite in, but not from stoppages due to being so leaky in the ones they lost. Which if I have my maths right would mean more scores conceded per stoppage lost as the overall stoppage differential was positive. Elite small forwards could still help that differential by increasing efficiency from those won.

Is the midfield or defence more to blame for the extreme leakiness per lost stoppage? It's easy to blame the defence but maybe the game plan and player positioning was very aggressive - not protective enough for the defensive structure. So easy to score, but difficult to contain scores.

 

[carlton_99]

Yeah that makes sense. It does seem that score differential from turnovers Carlton were elite in, but not from stoppages due to being so leaky in the ones they lost. Which if I have my maths right would mean more scores conceded per stoppage lost as the overall raw stoppage win differential was positive. Elite small forwards could still help that differential by increasing efficiency.

Is the midfield or defence to blame more for the extreme leakiness per lost stoppage? It's easy to blame the defence but maybe the game plan and player positioning was very aggressive - not protective enough for the defensive structure. So easy to score, but difficult to contain scores.

Yep in 2024 we were very good at scoring/defending turnover and also scoring off stoppage however were putrid at defending stoppage. It was a bit of a crazy stat this season as we went from conceding the fewest points from stoppage in 2023 to the 3rd most in 2024.

I personally put the blame more on the midfield than the defence. The reason for this is I think we were running too many contested types in that group that are easily attracted to the ball (i.e., Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy/Carroll). This is fine if you can win it at the source but if you don't their opponents leak out and beat them to the outside and they get killed on the spread. This means we don't get any delay on the ball going inside our defensive 50 which hurts us especially because we didn't run a second true key defender with Weitering and instead opted for Kemp/McGovern as two intercepting-types next to him most weeks.

Our best two-way midfielders are Cerra and Walsh who both are great at getting from inside to outside which helps us balance out the contested brutes in the midfield. They are both good at spreading from the stoppage defensively to stop clean exits inside 50 whilst also being good tacklers which obviously helps stop the same thing. Cerra was the biggest personnel difference between 23' and 24' where we saw that drop in our ability to defend stoppage so I expect his return to help us significantly in this area.

Lastly, as I have said in a post on a previous page getting a better overall balance in the midfield is key to this. We should now have Cripps and Hewett as our main two contested mids that will get you the ball at the source and give it to distributors like Cerra, Walsh, E.Hollands, J.Smith etc. If, however, we don't win the ball at the source and it leaks out from the contest the likes of a fit Cerra + Walsh, E.Hollands and J.Smith (instead of just Walsh/Kennedy/Carroll in 2024) should help us at least put some delay on the ball and also limit clean inside 50 entries for the opposition.

 

[bradfisher14]

Excellent post. These missing pieces I'm talking about aren't always free agents or trade ins. Smith for Kennedy and Moir for Owies could be two examples, albeit it might be unfair to expect too much in 2025.

Agreed. Trying not to get ahead of myself with Jagga. What I’ve seen has been very exciting.

Another strong KPD (freeing Gov up as a free interceptor) and one or two very dynamic, creative small forwards are what I'd see as "instant fixes". Throw a Stengle or Papley up forward and a Taylor or Buckley at CHB and I'd be very confident in Carlton finishing top 4, maybe even top 2.

It can still happen without those plug and play types, but the burden on the rest of the team rises.

Voss has said that Jack Silvagni will be training in defence this preseason. Ethan Phillips is also training with us so could be picked up via SSP. I think either of them could do a job for us without being spectacular. It was certainly an Achilles heel for us last season.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I wouldn't use points for alone as a measure of anything - I was just staying on topic after Fadge made the comment about our points for being inflated by games against North/Tigers.

Carlton's forward line was surprisingly incredibly efficient in 2024. I say "surprisingly" because to the eye it still seemed like there were heaps of areas for improvement including delivery inside 50 from the midfield, pressure inside 50, small forward positioning/crumbing and key forward leading patterns. These areas are why I was happy to move on Owies and why I am still an advocate of JSOS as a forward rather than a defender.

Just looking at Wheelo and in 2024 we were ranked very high in the following categories to support the above.

• Goal scorers: 8.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Goals/inside 50: 26.4 per game (#1 in AFL)
• Set shots/inside 50: 47.3 per game (#4 in AFL)
• Tackles inside 50: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)
• Scores from stoppage: 37.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)
• Scores from turnover: 52.0 points per game (#4 in AFL)

So overall I do think we were a fairly strong offensive team in 2024 - the issues were largely our ability to defend stoppage which went from the best in the comp in 2023 to bottom 3 in 2024.

More importantly, Fadge makes a dismissive post regarding our scoring about playing vs bottom 4 teams and completely ignored the follow up post you made with further information on our forward lines scoring ability. I'm not surprised but its just further evidence he's got 0 interest in meaningful discussion Mr Meow

Anything that proves his statements as garbage he just ignores and continues on his day trolling. Hence why so many Carlton fans tell him to GAGF.

Excellent post. These missing pieces I'm talking about aren't always free agents or trade ins. Smith for Kennedy and Moir for Owies could be two examples, albeit it might be unfair to expect too much in 2025.

Another strong KPD (freeing Gov up as a free interceptor) and one or two very dynamic, creative small forwards are what I'd see as "instant fixes". Throw a Stengle or Papley up forward and a Taylor or Buckley at CHB and I'd be very confident in Carlton finishing top 4, maybe even top 2.

It can still happen without those plug and play types, but the burden on the rest of the team rises.

As for this, I think our small forward hole is actually our biggest list hole including a 2nd KPD. Our midfield is a relatively unskilful one in comparison to some others (that may change with Jagga but can't get ahead of ourselves). We tend to revert to bashing and smashing teams in contested ball to simply win through weight of numbers knowing if we get the ball into our forward line theres a good chance Curnow or Mckay will create something for the team.

Having 1-2 highly skilled small forwards would greatly improve our offensive efficiency if they were delivering the ball rather than players like Cripps or Hewett, and with how dreadful ours were this year defensively (outside of Fogarty) they would likely in unison with our midfield, make our defensive profile far better and create the delay needed for Weitering to dominate from the backline even as a lone KPD.

In 2023 when we were able to get half a season out of Cuningham, Martin, Fogarty and a fit Motlop we were one of the top defenses in the league and Weitering was the top interceptor across the comp. This was because they greatly improved our pressure game and ability to lock the ball inside fwd 50 for us. Unfortunately Cuningham and Martin were made of glass and Motlop had a terrible run with injury this year, but when we were able to get more from that group it was a real strength of ours defending across the field.

I do worry about going into another season with Motlop and Durdin as our only half decent 'talents' up fwd but I don't subscribe to Owies being a big loss. Like the others above, I actually think he was holding back some of our others development such as Moir, Motlop, Durdin, Hollands. Someone like Stengle would be fantastic but I think just anyone capable of applying top level defensive pressure and delivering the ball to what we've already got would still make a dramatic difference.

That said with what I've seen from Jagga at training so far I'm completely content with making the move to trade up and select him rather than go all out on a 2nd KPD or Small Fwds.

How we address those positions at the end of 2025 if they continue to be an issue for us will be interesting though, as there doesn't appear to be a heap on the market at this stage.

 

[Mr Meow]

More importantly, Fadge makes a dismissive post regarding our scoring about playing vs bottom 4 teams and completely ignored the follow up post you made with further information on our forward lines scoring ability. I'm not surprised but its just further evidence he's got 0 interest in meaningful discussion Mr Meow

Anything that proves his statements as garbage he just ignores and continues on his day trolling. Hence why so many Carlton fans tell him to GAGF.


As for this, I think our small forward hole is actually our biggest list hole including a 2nd KPD. Our midfield is a relatively unskilful one in comparison to some others (that may change with Jagga but can't get ahead of ourselves). We tend to revert to bashing and smashing teams in contested ball to simply win through weight of numbers knowing if we get the ball into our forward line theres a good chance Curnow or Mckay will create something for the team.

Having 1-2 highly skilled small forwards would greatly improve our offensive efficiency if they were delivering the ball rather than players like Cripps or Hewett, and with how dreadful ours were this year defensively (outside of Fogarty) they would likely in unison with our midfield, make our defensive profile far better and create the delay needed for Weitering to dominate from the backline even as a lone KPD.

In 2023 when we were able to get half a season out of Cuningham, Martin, Fogarty and a fit Motlop we were one of the top defenses in the league and Weitering was the top interceptor across the comp. This was because they greatly improved our pressure game and ability to lock the ball inside fwd 50 for us. Unfortunately Cuningham and Martin were made of glass and Motlop had a terrible run with injury this year, but when we were able to get more from that group it was a real strength of ours defending across the field.

I do worry about going into another season with Motlop and Durdin as our only half decent 'talents' up fwd but I don't subscribe to Owies being a big loss. Like the others above, I actually think he was holding back some of our others development such as Moir, Motlop, Durdin, Hollands. Someone like Stengle would be fantastic but I think just anyone capable of applying top level defensive pressure and delivering the ball to what we've got would still make a dramatic difference.

That said with what I've seen from Jagga at training so far I'm completely content with making the move to trade up and select him rather than go all out on a 2nd KPD or Small Fwds.

How we address those positions at the end of 2025 if they continue to be an issue for us will be interesting though, as there doesn't appear to be a heap on the market at this stage.

I disagree with Fadge on Carlton's ceiling and probably on what is expected of them each season of late. His harshness is a bit like you on Geelong in 2024 - overstated, even if some points had validity. The fury and dislike makes it all exaggerated. So you've probably noticed I don't go back and forth squealing with delight at how bad Carlton are, although from a Carlton supporter perspective that seems to be the impression.

Anyway onto the football bit: Very insightful post and a good summary of where things are at, obviously with more detail than me as an outsider could put together. I do see some parallels there with Carlton 2022-2024 and Geelong 2016-2020. Except Geelong only had one great key forward and usually had at least one more very good small forward (but the rest were poor). Some similar issues with ball delivery quality and needing to win weight of numbers, scoring through oppression rather than clinical precision. That obviously changed in 2022, but the issue was a number of players were then at the end or declining. By 2024 it was then about having weapons and a number of dangerous creators/scorers, without the heft in midfield to lay a foundation. Different strengths; different flaws.

I realise I'm stating the obvious, but it's a very tricky thing to have all of the puzzle pieces together at the same time. There might just be a 1-2 year window where that perfect balance is there for the Blues, or it might be that the top end POD players are so supremely dominant they carry a side to a premiership (Melbourne 2021 felt a bit like this). If players like Williams, Motlop, Hollands and Durdin have career best seasons (which they easily could), it might be enough. I agree that the forward pressure element could in fact be the answer to improving defensive efficiency. With total buy in, a cohesive unit and a good run of health Carlton should be top 4. I wouldn't say their list has peaked but they are in that window where they should be contending for flags.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I disagree with Fadge on Carlton's ceiling and probably on what is expected of them each season of late. His harshness is a bit like you on Geelong in 2024 - overstated, even if some points had validity. The fury and dislike makes it all exaggerated. So you've probably noticed I don't go back and forth squealing with delight at how bad Carlton are, although from a Carlton supporter perspective that seems to be the impression.

Anyway onto the football bit: Very insightful post and a good summary of where things are at, obviously with more detail than me as an outsider could put together. I do see some parallels there with Carlton 2022-2024 and Geelong 2016-2020. Except Geelong only had one great key forward and usually had at least one more very good small forward (but the rest were poor). Some similar issues with ball delivery quality and needing to win weight of numbers, scoring through oppression rather than clinical precision. That obviously changed in 2022, but the issue was a number of players were then at the end or declining. By 2024 it was then about having weapons and a number of dangerous creators/scorers, without the heft in midfield to lay a foundation. Different strengths; different flaws.

I realise I'm stating the obvious, but it's a very tricky thing to have all of the puzzle pieces together at the same time. There might just be a 1-2 year window where that perfect balance is there for the Blues, or it might be that the top end POD players are so supremely dominant they carry a side to a premiership (Melbourne 2021 felt a bit like this). If players like Williams, Motlop, Hollands and Durdin have career best seasons (which they easily could), it might be enough. I agree that the forward pressure element could in fact be the answer to improving defensive efficiency. With total buy in, a cohesive unit and a good run of health Carlton should be top 4. I wouldn't say their list has peaked but they are in that window where they should be contending for flags.

Oppression vs Precision sums it up quite well.

Pretty much the reason I find complaints about Voss' gameplan a bit funny too. Our own fans and opposition fans alike complain about our game style and seem to have the expectation that we should be playing like the Harlem Globetrotters. Reality is we have a list of big bash and crash beasts and lack the outside class of teams like Geelong, ultimately we're playing to our strengths with what we've got.

Underneath our best 22 is where we have some of those precision users we lack who provide some speed and run. But they've been lacking opportunity with players like Kennedy, Owies etc ahead of them and hard to displace on form. Players like Wilson, Moir, Binns and Lord who are no names to most but are strong runners with good foot skills who can play that precision brand of football which seems to be the way the AFL as a whole is going.

As said by others, creating opportunity for them by removing some of these senior players in the off season is the strategy we've chosen. If they come in and develop how we'd hope they'll be fantastic list fits and provide a good contrast to the big brutes like Cripps, Acres, Hewett and all the rest of them. If not it's entirely likely we go backwards for a year or two while we wait for them to get up to the standard necessary.

Ultimately it's a wait and see, but from what I've seen in the pre season so far all those players seem to be stepping up to the challenge compared to years prior, so I'm quietly confident.

 

[Yoda_]

It's been mentioned a few times but this Carlton is doing well because ALL the Blues good players are exceeding expectations. Who else jumps out of the box to take the next step to actually continue improving this team?

The few who could to me are;

Brodie Kemp, found his niche. Trending nicely. Good second, third avenue to goal. Showed good signs coming into his, what, 4th (?) season.

Jesse Motlop, had such high hopes but hasn't really clicked. Still young enough to make something happen. Could he be the one?

Hollands x 2, either would be good to take a step or two. Both have shown signs. Show it consistently and they fill another hole.

Lachie Cowan could fill the void by the often missing Docherty. I like him, needs to take a step in year 3

 

[Corn Cobbers]

It's been mentioned a few times but this Carlton is doing well because ALL the Blues good players are exceeding expectations. Who else jumps out of the box to take the next step to actually continue improving this team?

The few who could to me are;

Brodie Kemp, found his niche. Trending nicely. Good second, third avenue to goal. Showed good signs coming into his, what, 4th (?) season.

Jesse Motlop, had such high hopes but hasn't really clicked. Still young enough to make something happen. Could he be the one?

Hollands x 2, either would be good to take a step or two. Both have shown signs. Show it consistently and they fill another hole.

Lachie Cowan could fill the void by the often missing Docherty. I like him, needs to take a step in year 3

Moir is the one for me, might have been a top 5 pick but for a hip injury which ruined his draft year

Got all the weapons, needs a tank I'm told, that's easily fixed [emoji108]

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It's been mentioned a few times but this Carlton is doing well because ALL the Blues good players are exceeding expectations. Who else jumps out of the box to take the next step to actually continue improving this team?

The few who could to me are;

Brodie Kemp, found his niche. Trending nicely. Good second, third avenue to goal. Showed good signs coming into his, what, 4th (?) season.

Jesse Motlop, had such high hopes but hasn't really clicked. Still young enough to make something happen. Could he be the one?

Hollands x 2, either would be good to take a step or two. Both have shown signs. Show it consistently and they fill another hole.

Lachie Cowan could fill the void by the often missing Docherty. I like him, needs to take a step in year 3

If I go through what I expect to be our best 22 I'll put in bold the players we'd be hoping/relying on improving next year to make up the gap. Whether they do or not is something we'll only know at the end of next year.

McGovern Weitering Saad
Newman Haynes O.Hollands
Acres Cripps Docherty
E.Hollands Curnow Fogarty
Williams Mckay Motlop
DeKoning Walsh Cerra

Jagga Cowan Lord/Hewett Kemp/Moir

Going through that list in order of significance imo, some are obviously in different positions to one another in terms of where they are in their careers and age.

DeKoning - Complete gun. Only really got going half way through the year where he took the reigns as the solo ruck. If we get a full season of that he'll be AA.

Walsh - If he gets through the pre season for the first time since 2021 and his back isn't an issue like it's been the last couple of years. At his best he's still one of the best midfielders in the competition but unfortunately, we haven't got to see that version of him for the full length of season in a few years now. Can only hope he gets a clean run in 2025.

Cerra - Had a fantastic 2023, 2024 go obliterated by injuries. If he can stay healthy, he's a very good player and makes a big difference to our chances.

Williams - Only switched to playing forward halfway through the season last year. Averaged around 1.5 goals a game from that game onwards so I'd be hoping with a full pre-season training as a forward and being another year past his ACL (2023) he'll be able to show some improvement. I expect he'll be our best small forward filling that void and he's easily in the best condition he's been in while at Carlton thus far, that said the kents made of glass so not holding my breath.

Jagga - Speaks for itself. High pick, high talent. I expect he'll add to our list in 2025. Would imagine he'll take a couple of years to really come into his own but I imagine he'll still play a part in 2025.

O.Hollands - One of the best of the pre-season so far, switched to half back rather than playing wing and seems to be excelling down there. Think he was a bit hamstrung by playing the defensive side wing role where he couldn't use his offensive weapons as much.

Motlop - Ask anyone on the Carlton board my thoughts on Motlop and they'll tell you I'm a hater... Maybe half true. I just think he's been a lazy player who expected to be given games and that things would go his way naturally because he had a few good games in the back half of 2023 where he kicked some big goals in some big games... That said he's looked far fitter at training than previous years so I'd be hoping (and praying) that either he or Durdin step up to fill that void.

Cowan - Good role player so far in his career, would say out of all our youngsters he and Lord have impressed the most in terms of physical transformations over the off season. He's come back in ridiculously good condition and looking really good.

Lord - Imo will replace Hewett in our 22 if he carries his form through to the start of the year. Played a couple games at the end of 2023 and looked the goods, come back in great condition and is a far far better runner than Hewett which would help with our full ground defensive press significantly.

Kemp/Moir - Both will be tried as that 3rd tall option up forward. I really like Moir as a talent but think he's still a year or two away from having the body and tank to play a full season. Kemp is a puzzling player, has a lot of talent but I'm not sure where his best position is still... Maybe the forward line will work out... Idk.

E.Hollands - One of our success stories from 2024, only played 36 games so far and made huge strides last year in recapturing the form that had him touted a pick 1 fancy before his ACL. Would expect he'll continue to improve over the next few years as he develops.

Docherty - Coming back from missing the year, not expecting AA 2017 Docherty or anything but I imagine he'll still provide a bit to the team.

Haynes - Not expecting huge things, but imo a minor upgrade on Kemp/Young defensively and a smarter player in general. Might help in terms of defensive cohesion on that basis but also wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't really make much of a difference at all.


Will any of this occur? God only knows... But I don't think we could realistically expect to get anything more from those that haven't been bolded in that 22. It's entirely possible some of those players regress while others around them improve.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Moir is the one for me, might have been a top 5 pick but for a hip injury which ruined his draft year

Got all the weapons, needs a tank I'm told, that's easily fixed [emoji108]

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think he's still going to take a couple years to come on. Has talent theres no doubt, but just get the feeling from what I've seen that he's still a pre season or two of getting his tank up to par from playing a significant role in a team over the course of a season.

Perhaps a specialist sub until then?

 

[Yoda_]

If I go through what I expect to be our best 22 I'll put in bold the players we'd be hoping/relying on improving next year to make up the gap. Whether they do or not is something we'll only know at the end of next year.

McGovern Weitering Saad
Newman Haynes O.Hollands
Acres Cripps Docherty
E.Hollands Curnow Fogarty
Williams Mckay Motlop
DeKoning Walsh Cerra

Jagga Cowan Lord/Hewett Kemp/Moir

Going through that list in order of significance imo, some are obviously in different positions to one another in terms of where they are in their careers and age.

DeKoning - Complete gun. Only really got going half way through the year where he took the reigns as the solo ruck. If we get a full season of that he'll be AA.

Walsh - If he gets through the pre season for the first time since 2021 and his back isn't an issue like it's been the last couple of years. At his best he's still one of the best midfielders in the competition but unfortunately, we haven't got to see that version of him for the full length of season in a few years now. Can only hope he gets a clean run in 2025.

Cerra - Had a fantastic 2023, 2024 go obliterated by injuries. If he can stay healthy, he's a very good player and makes a big difference to our chances.

Williams - Only switched to playing forward halfway through the season last year. Averaged around 1.5 goals a game from that game onwards so I'd be hoping with a full pre-season training as a forward and being another year past his ACL (2023) he'll be able to show some improvement. I expect he'll be our best small forward filling that void and he's easily in the best condition he's been in while at Carlton thus far, that said the kents made of glass so not holding my breath.

Jagga - Speaks for itself. High pick, high talent. I expect he'll add to our list in 2025. Would imagine he'll take a couple of years to really come into his own but I imagine he'll still play a part in 2025.

O.Hollands - One of the best of the pre-season so far, switched to half back rather than playing wing and seems to be excelling down there. Think he was a bit hamstrung by playing the defensive side wing role where he couldn't use his offensive weapons as much.

Motlop - Ask anyone on the Carlton board my thoughts on Motlop and they'll tell you I'm a hater... Maybe half true. I just think he's been a lazy player who expected to be given games and that things would go his way naturally because he had a few good games in the back half of 2023 where he kicked some big goals in some big games... That said he's looked far fitter at training than previous years so I'd be hoping (and praying) that either he or Durdin step up to fill that void.

Cowan - Good role player so far in his career, would say out of all our youngsters he and Lord have impressed the most in terms of physical transformations over the off season. He's come back in ridiculously good condition and looking really good.

Lord - Imo will replace Hewett in our 22 if he carries his form through to the start of the year. Played a couple games at the end of 2023 and looked the goods, come back in great condition and is a far far better runner than Hewett which would help with our full ground defensive press significantly.

Kemp/Moir - Both will be tried as that 3rd tall option up forward. I really like Moir as a talent but think he's still a year or two away from having the body and tank to play a full season. Kemp is a puzzling player, has a lot of talent but I'm not sure where his best position is still... Maybe the forward line will work out... Idk.

E.Hollands - One of our success stories from 2024, only played 36 games so far and made huge strides last year in recapturing the form that had him touted a pick 1 fancy before his ACL. Would expect he'll continue to improve over the next few years as he develops.

Docherty - Coming back from missing the year, not expecting AA 2017 Docherty or anything but I imagine he'll still provide a bit to the team.

Haynes - Not expecting huge things, but imo a minor upgrade on Kemp/Young defensively and a smarter player in general. Might help in terms of defensive cohesion on that basis but also wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't really make much of a difference at all.


Will any of this occur? God only knows... But I don't think we could realistically expect to get anything more from those that haven't been bolded in that 22. It's entirely possible some of those players regress while others around them improve.

Great summary

alot of midfield heavy improvement. For Carlton to take the step needing a 35 goal small forward is a must imho. Reading this, Motlop is the one

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Great summary

alot of midfield heavy improvement. For Carlton to take the step needing a 35 goal small forward is a must imho. Reading this, Motlop is the one

I agree. And unfortunately I'm not certain any of our smalls will actually take that step.

If they do we'll be in good order imo.

 

[Yoda_]

I agree. And unfortunately I'm not certain any of our smalls will actually take that step.

If they do we'll be in good order imo.

Tom Papley would be mighty handy right now, that's a real sliding doors moment Purple

 

[carlton_99]

Tom Papley would be mighty handy right now, that's a real sliding doors moment Purple

You can thank for that

 

[Yoda_]

You can thank for that

Who?

 

[carlton_99]

Who?

Dodoro

 

[Yoda_]

Dodoro

what for?

 

[carlton_99]

what for?

He's the only reason the Papley deal didn't go through. Carlton had a deal agreed with the Swans but it was reliant on Sydney getting Daniher. Dodoro declined and then got less for him the following year when he left as a FA

 

[DERO]

what for?

shouldn't you be at work?

 

[DERO]

Some people just can't be helped.

 

[DERO]

not with Gastro now

makes sense. You are literally full of shit.

 

[DERO]

Does gastro prevent common courtesy?

 

[DERO]

Time to log off now Yoda.

 

[Cyclops]

As an outsider Motlop is a worry, had some irritating patches against the Pies where he couldn't be stopped. Small forwards pop up from time to time, I suspect the Carlton gameplan doesn't favour crumbers as much as markers but I may be confusing carts and horses.

Voss has a plan involving two tall forwards, you have to back him in. You never know when the kaleidoscope of rule changes, injuries and emerging player will result in a dream run, 2025 might be the year of the twin towers.

If one goes down it brings Carlton back to mainstream, which would not be a season ending situation. I hate to say it (not wishing injuries on anyone) but you could probably cover Weitering by sticking McKay down back too.

So even in a less good case there's still finals hopes.

Carlton's Achilles heel in my view is leadership, off field and on. Cripps and Voss are the king pieces, if you find more leaders then a rise is on. The idiots on the board seemed to have calmed down and Cripps is effective even when he's injured so thats not critical either.