Opinion Has this Carlton list already peaked?

[Pistol Night]

So, nothing to back it up?

Seems like when I said you were hoping it wouldn’t happen, rather than having anything of substance to support it. I might’ve actually been correct.

Imagine my shock.

You really don’t like being called out when you post crap, do you?

Because Pick 3 is unknown. He could be the next Judd or the next Dow. Pinning your hopes on him being the saviour is a high risk strategy

 

[We_The_West]

I liked this post, until your last sentence...

I don't want to be too popular...

 

[beerbandit]

My opinion - pick 3 won't make Carlton any worse next year

No they won’t, I think Carlton are underselling losing Owies. He was your best small forward.

Big concern is the backline and Sam Walsh is a worry, there seems to be something underlying there. Cripps a star of the game but is a year older and how much more heavy lifting can he do. Blues need to try and get the flag with a prime Cripps, that’s why I’m quite shocked Carlton let Houston slip to Collingwood.

You’ve got to keep up with the pack Worm4.

 

[beerbandit]

So, nothing to back it up?

Seems like when I said you were hoping it wouldn’t happen, rather than having anything of substance to support it. I might’ve actually been correct.

Imagine my shock.

You really don’t like being called out when you post crap, do you?

For every Dusty/Judd there is a Dow/Tyson/Billings or Hansen

I could go through the entire pick 3s for you, but you are arguing, not me so I’ll leave that up to you.

And whilst your add it please add a description of each pick 3s first season and how they impacted that side in that season to show me how they’ll make you better.

Cheers

 

[Worm4]

No they won’t, I think Carlton are underselling losing Owies. He was your best small forward.

Big concern is the backline and Sam Walsh is a worry, there seems to be something underlying there. Cripps a star of the game but is a year older and how much more heavy lifting can he do. Blues need to try and get the flag with a prime Cripps, that’s why I’m quite shocked Carlton let Houston slip to Collingwood.

You’ve got to keep up with the pack Worm4.

If anything, Cripps is getting better. He may have peaked 2024, but his level is 2025 will still be better than 99% of the competition.
Walsh - it's no secret he had back issues. Reckon he rushed himself back too soon. Pretty confident he gets to improve on his 16 vote injury riddled season . You guys are clearly underselling him.
Houston , whilst would have been a more than handy inclusion, was clearly not a specific need for the Blues.
DeKoning is the one we need to keep healthy. IMO , the barometer of the team. Posters think Carlton won't improve, but TDK will get better and have a big impact in 25.

 

[Worm4]

Their younger players haven't developed. Increased reliance on older mature players.

Reckon Tom DeKoning is developing quite nicely , but thanks for not noticing

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I think with the way the competition is, anyone can win. I didn't think Lions could win with Fagan/Daniher/Hipwood or Pies without a proper KPF could win,but they both did, so no reason Carlton can't if everything went right for them in September.

 

[We_The_West]

Reckon Tom DeKoning is developing quite nicely , but thanks for not noticing

Tom DeKoning is 26 in 2025... I would have hoped after 7 preseasons he would be impacting like he did in 2024.

But seriously, am I missing a bunch of 18-23 yr olds that Carlton has hidden somewhere?

They just delisted Jack Carroll who was a 22 yr old mid who played half the season?

 

[Robertio]

Tom DeKoning is 26 in 2025... I would have hoped after 7 preseasons he would be impacting like he did in 2024.

But seriously, am I missing a bunch of 18-23 yr olds that Carlton has hidden somewhere?

They just delisted Jack Carroll who was a 22 yr old mid who played half the season?

Have a closer look at the last two games and you might see a few and playing well at that.

 

[Worm4]

Tom DeKoning is 26 in 2025... I would have hoped after 7 preseasons he would be impacting like he did in 2024.

But seriously, am I missing a bunch of 18-23 yr olds that Carlton has hidden somewhere?

They just delisted Jack Carroll who was a 22 yr old mid who played half the season?

Ruckman generally don't hit their straps historically until the hit 26/27. He is coming along quite nicely.
Carlton have a few under 23s who played this year, and I suspect will inject a few more in the next year or 2. In fact, a couple of the teams mentioned by other posters who apparently are going to fly right past Carlton have less u23s playing for them and also no draft hand in the foreseeable future either.
I still think Carlton will be fine for the next 5 years. The cliff is closer for other clubs

 

[RonnieRaven]

Ruckman generally don't hit their straps historically until the hit 26/27. He is coming along quite nicely.
Carlton have a few under 23s who played this year, and I suspect will inject a few more in the next year or 2. In fact, a couple of the teams mentioned by other posters who apparently are going to fly right past Carlton have less u23s playing for them and also no draft hand in the foreseeable future either.
I still think Carlton will be fine for the next 5 years. The cliff is closer for other clubs

Yes the cliff is closer for other clubs
Lions pies cats but they’ve all won a flag
I give improvement to TDK cerra Walsh but the teams around blues have a lot more scope.
Even teams like port and giants have more scope for natural improvement

 

[RonnieRaven]

Can any team contend without their best players?

Pies without Daicos x2, Degoey, Moore, Mihocek?

Brisbane without Neale, Andrews, Daniher, Dunkley, Zorko?

GWS without Green, Greene, Hogan, Taylor, Kelly?

Geelong without Cameron, Dangerfield, Stengle, Holmes, Miers?

The argument is as dumb as it gets. Carlton are just as reliant on our star players as most teams are.

How many games did blues play in 2024 without their 5 best players?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

How many games did blues play in 2024 without their 5 best players?

Is that what's being discussed? How many have any of those teams played without their 5 best players?

Blues biggest issue in 2024 was injury and fitness. Curnow playing hobbled for the back half of the season with his ankle, Walsh's back, McKay and Dekoning out to finish the year, then add to that a bunch of decent role players and players like Saad, McGovern etc missing a few here and there and the overall fitness and continuity of the group was completely shot.

While we had a relatively healthy list we were humming along fine and there was no talk of whether we were too star reliant or our bottom 6 were too poor. We were just a good team performing to expectations.

We weren't Sydney by any means but we weren't miles off as some in here would like you to believe.

Blues have enough on their list to contend if they can stay fit and add some internal improvement from some younger players and tune up some bits and pieces re coaching/game plan. Owies and Kennedy etc departing doesn't shift that needle imo.

 

[JustaBattler]

If "peaked" means the list has achieved as much as it can versus opposition - I think not. eg just having handy depth like Docherty/Cerra or even spuds like Silvagni fit to play - let alone Walsh -will be handy.

The club has made a pretty strong statement in delisting perennially injured blokes like Cuningham/Machbank/Martin and encouraging decent role players like Kennedy and Owies to find greener pastures - maybe that is a view tht suggests the CLub is rid of players who have peaked ...


If it means is too old to get better - again I think not. One only has to look at age profile of some other CLubs to understand that proven players are able to play at high levels for longer these days than in the past - eg Pendelbury/Dangerfield etc etc I think Cripps has more than one last year in him.


If it means there isn't enough youth coming through to sustain middling or better status- I guess the Club in going to the draft rather than bringing in even more high-paid but not enough superstars ( eg Houston) - has decided to make sure that young talent is being replenished - this year at least two decent draftees are guaranteed to join the list - whether pick 3 is any good or whether Ben and Lucas Camporele end up being any good- is the same question anyone can ask of any draftee - time will tell - but what is good for Carlton is that all these young kids will have the time to develop - rather than be expected to come in and be superstars from day1.

Funny how some in this thread argue Carlton have got too much invested in too few - whilst the same type of other posters - argue not getting Houston ( even though Carlton was his preferred Club) is a sign that Carlton aren't 'keeping up'.

Fair enough through - in any year there is only ever one winner- and the 17 other losers can dress up their prospects and misfortunes any way they like.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Is that what's being discussed? How many have any of those teams played without their 5 best players?

Blues biggest issue in 2024 was injury and fitness. Curnow playing hobbled for the back half of the season with his ankle, Walsh's back, McKay and Dekoning out to finish the year, then add to that a bunch of decent role players and players like Saad, McGovern etc missing a few here and there and the overall fitness and continuity of the group was completely shot.

While we had a relatively healthy list we were humming along fine and there was no talk of whether we were too star reliant or our bottom 6 were too poor. We were just a good team performing to expectations.

We weren't Sydney by any means but we weren't miles off as some in here would like you to believe.

Blues have enough on their list to contend if they can stay fit and add some internal improvement from some younger players and tune up some bits and pieces re coaching/game plan. Owies and Kennedy etc departing doesn't shift that needle imo.

But every team has injuries
Freo finished half a game behind blues (gather round)
Darcy (bnf 1st ruck) missed 11 games
Pearce (captain FB) 8 games
Cox (CHB) 14 games
Treacy (chf) 3 games
I think freo played 1 game with our full spine
As a freo supporter for 30 years I’ve realised an injury free list for a season to jag a flag is a mirage.
Its spread and depth of talent and a well coach Game plan that holds up in finals that wins you it.
Say TDK cerra Walsh and pick 3 give you growth in 2025.
Freo expect growth from
Brayshaw
Serong
Young
Jackson
Treacy
Amiss
Clark
Sharp
Freddy
Cox
Walker
+bolton

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

But every team has injuries
Freo finished half a game behind blues (gather round)
Darcy (bnf 1st ruck) missed 11 games
Pearce (captain FB) 8 games
Cox (CHB) 14 games
Treacy (chf) 3 games
I think freo played 1 game with our full spine
As a freo supporter for 30 years I’ve realised an injury free list for a season to jag a flag is a mirage.
Its spread and depth of talent and a well coach Game plan that holds up in finals that wins you it.
Say TDK cerra Walsh and pick 3 give you growth in 2025.
Freo expect growth from
Brayshaw
Serong
Young
Jackson
Treacy
Amiss
Clark
Sharp
Freddy
Cox
Walker
+bolton

Right but Freo fans would also say those injuries were key reasons why you didn't go as well as you'd hoped to this year no?

TDK, Walsh, Cerra, E.Hollands, O.Hollands, Cowan, Moir, Motlop, Durdin and Pick 3 would be the main ones we'd be banking on internal improvement from next year. We also get Silvagni and Docherty back from injury (how much either contribute next year is up in the air though)

Blues are similarly positioned to most teams in the top 8 who didn't go all the way. Hope for a better bill of health to our stars and aim to find some continuity around them through role players or improved youngsters. We didn't add any big additions in the off season but I don't really think we needed to.

 

[parsons nose]

West Coast will rue the day they traded Barass out for Hawthorn’s future picks and not Carlton’s. Carlton are an injury to Cripps away from total disaster. They really are a one man band and no other team relies on one player to the extent that the blues rely on their captain. As it is he’s being held together by bandages. Added to that they have a coach who has the creativity of a metronome. Going into 2025 with possibly the worst coach in the business doesn’t augur well for their fortunes.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

West Coast will rue the day they traded Barass out for Hawthorn’s future picks and not Carlton’s. Carlton are an injury to Cripps away from total disaster. They really are a one man band and no other team relies on one player to the extent that the blues rely on their captain. As it is he’s being held together by bandages. Added to that they have a coach who has the creativity of a metronome. Going into 2025 with possibly the worst coach in the business doesn’t augur well for their fortunes.

Held together by bandages but he just had one of the best seasons of all time by an individual

 

[Saint12]

Carlton have arguably been the worst performed side in the modern AFL era....and I cant see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Saint12]

I like the way they honestly think the only reason they're not consistently contending for flags is because of their unprecedented injury misfortunes each year.

Because whilst they truly believe that, they'll continue to deliver the same results as they have in recent times.

Injuries cost us flags between 2004 and 2008. Can we be credited with 5 flags??

 

[schmuttt]

We needed to create opportunities for players below them and change the balance of our list. Too many slow pokes and not enough run and carry.

We might miss them a bit next year but overall we needed to do it at some point so bit the bullet. I'm of the opinion that Kennedy is the only one we may miss, but guess we'll only really know in 12 months time.

Carlton have the same problem staring them in the face that Melbourne had end of 2022 - an outdated gameplan and a question mark on whether the players on the list can adapt to a more modern system. I agree they absolutely have to start changing the list and they've done that, whether or not the change will come in time before Cripps/Weitering/Curnow/McKay are done is the issue.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Carlton have the same problem staring them in the face that Melbourne had end of 2022 - an outdated gameplan and a question mark on whether the players on the list can adapt to a more modern system. I agree they absolutely have to start changing the list and they've done that, whether or not the change will come in time before Cripps/Weitering/Curnow/McKay are done is the issue.

Yep. Pretty much in our bringing in Jackson, Pickett, Rivers, Bowey phase ATM.

We'd be hoping Moir, Wilson, the Hollands twins, Cowan and Pick 3 provide enough in the next 2-3 years to get our list more balanced and compliment our big brutes (same as Dees with Clarry, Trac, Viney etc).

Unfortunately while Kennedy and Owies etc were there those kids development would be hindered as they wouldn't get the same opportunities as they will without them.

We may well go backwards next year but it was without a doubt the right choice for the off season in my opinion. Our list will be far better positioned in 3-4 years time to catch the tail end of Curnow, McKay, Weitering etcs peaks with some kids more suited to the modern running game.

 

[schmuttt]

Yep. Pretty much in our bringing in Jackson, Pickett, Rivers, Bowey phase ATM.

We'd be hoping Moir, Wilson, the Hollands twins, Cowan and Pick 3 provide enough in the next 2-3 years to get our list more balanced and compliment our big brutes (same as Dees with Clarry, Trac, Viney etc).

Unfortunately while Kennedy and Owies etc were there those kids development would be hindered as they wouldn't get the same opportunities as they will without them.

We may well go backwards next year but it was without a doubt the right choice for the off season in my opinion. Our list will be far better positioned in 3-4 years time to catch the tail end of Curnow, McKay, Weitering etcs peaks with some kids more suited to the modern running game.

I think you've clued onto it much earlier than Melbourne (Who might not even make meaningful changes to their system in 2025, but have at least started pushing more for youth). Really need Jesse Motlop to have an injury free season IMO

 

[beerbandit]

OK, it was too much to ask.

Thank you for your time.

And for the record, I too enjoy ChatGPT. But it's easy to detect - there are sites that do this specifically!

Meh, you can think what you like I’m not fussed.

Backline is a big concern.

I don’t think Carlton can cover any of Cripps, Walsh or Curnow if any go down for any length of time.

Also think depth is a concern and not too sure that Voss is tactically that good of a coach.

But will see, hope you get the next Judd with pick 3 because I think you’ll need it.

 

[Fadge]

I don’t think Carlton can cover any of Cripps, Walsh or Curnow if any go down for any length of time.

Add Weitering, or as we saw in 2024, De Koning.

Brittle and shallow - Carlton's list.