Have Geelong become too powerful?

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Havoc

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Sep 8, 2019
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Simple question with an obvious answer in my eyes.. YES they have become too powerful!! How is it a team can win a grand final by a huge margin, yet still be able to get their hands on pick 7... and trade in players for peanuts who were previously drafted in the first round, just because they played for the Falcons??

Imagine the media outrage if this was one of the big Melbourne clubs?? Instead, all we hear is how it's all down to good management and culture.. when if this was one of the big Melbourne clubs.. all the media commentary would be about how unfairly advantaged the big Melbourne club is, and what needs to be done to curb said advantages.

This all started when Geelong supporter Steve Bracks got into power and began greasing the wheels for the Geelong Football Club.. and surprise surprise, this has turned Geelong into a powerful.. albeit too powerful, football club.
 

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RUNVS

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I genuinely think having all players salaries public would help a lot with equalisation as it would show some players in teams like Geelong how underpaid they are, and also how much more they could get if they changed clubs.

Side note, I am not sure how much of a thing it is but all 3rd party deals need to be public too. I worry with teams like Geelong and Collingwood that they are hiding their salaries and artificially making their cap bigger by a lot of players having 3rd party deals.
 

bzparkes

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Really the biggest issue is expansion clubs being feeder clubs for big Vic teams in general. Not sure a Richmond supporter can complain about this aspect.

Would like to see their salary cap and off the books 'incentives' under far greater scrutiny, considering the rumours about the club buying property for players off the record.

The annoying thing to me though is their utter hypocrisy when pleading for clubs to trade players wanting to go home to Geelong, yet holding players not from there to their contract and demanding overs for said players but offering up crap for those coming home.

I honestly won't be surprised to see teams start playing Geelong's game from now on when trading with them.
 

tigerblood7

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Oct 15, 2017
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Wow. Geelong are a great club, managed well with a good culture. Whilst they have had a period of sustained success, they haven’t won the past 4 flags so I would hardly call them too powerful. Some could say that about us… coming of a very successful period and now pulling Taranto and Hopper. I just think good clubs get stuff done and rabbles like Gold Coast take the piss.
 

Saint12

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May 17, 2014
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I genuinely think having all players salaries public would help a lot with equalisation as it would show some players in teams like Geelong how underpaid they are, and also how much more they could get if they changed clubs.

Side note, I am not sure how much of a thing it is but all 3rd party deals need to be public too. I worry with teams like Geelong and Collingwood that they are hiding their salaries and artificially making their cap bigger by a lot of players having 3rd party deals.
Ya think
 

RUNVS

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I remember Travis Cloke on The Footy Show and I thought that felt really fishy as even for the Footy Show Travis Cloke was dumb and did not contribute anything. I wonder how big that deal was, and that was a more obvious one. I am sure clubs are able to be far more sneaky about paying players under the table than that.

I am not saying it is a Geelong issue, but them being able to afford Bowes does feel a bit odd.
 

bzparkes

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I remember Travis Cloke on The Footy Show and I thought that felt really fishy as even for the Footy Show Travis Cloke was dumb and did not contribute anything. I wonder how big that deal was, and that was a more obvious one. I am sure clubs are able to be far more sneaky about paying players under the table than that.

I am not saying it is a Geelong issue, but them being able to afford Bowes does feel a bit odd.
For pick 7, they shouldn't have been allowed to 'smooth' it out. Why couldn't the Suns have done the same thing, considering he actually wanted to stay?
 

The Passenger

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Mar 25, 2003
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I genuinely think having all players salaries public would help a lot with equalisation as it would show some players in teams like Geelong how underpaid they are, and also how much more they could get if they changed clubs.

Side note, I am not sure how much of a thing it is but all 3rd party deals need to be public too. I worry with teams like Geelong and Collingwood that they are hiding their salaries and artificially making their cap bigger by a lot of players having 3rd party deals.
Football players are not generally seen as the smartest (although some have got some brains) but it can't be that hard to work out where you fall on the pay scale. The average salary is somewhere in the low 300s from memory, so if your salary is in that region but you've played 60 of the last 66 games with 1 or 2 top ten B&F finishes you should probably be asking your manager WTF is going on.

The second point is a good one and I think there is a very strong argument that all third parties deals should be made public, but it would probably be a pretty tough negotiation with the AFLPA.
 

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RUNVS

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For pick 7, they shouldn't have been allowed to 'smooth' it out. Why couldn't the Suns have done the same thing, considering he actually wanted to stay?

Yep. Sydney were not allowed to smooth out Buddy's contract. In fact the AFL made sure that Sydney were expressly forbidden from doing that after we signed him at the end of 2013.
 

HairyO

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I genuinely think having all players salaries public would help a lot with equalisation as it would show some players in teams like Geelong how underpaid they are, and also how much more they could get if they changed clubs.

Side note, I am not sure how much of a thing it is but all 3rd party deals need to be public too. I worry with teams like Geelong and Collingwood that they are hiding their salaries and artificially making their cap bigger by a lot of players having 3rd party deals.

The AFL dont look at 3rd party deals.

NBA the players submit their tax returns so all income is reviewed.
 

RUNVS

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Football players are not generally seen as the smartest (although some have got some brains) but it can't be that hard to work out where you fall on the pay scale. The average salary is somewhere in the low 300s from memory, so if your salary is in that region but you've played 60 of the last 66 games with 1 or 2 top ten B&F finishes you should probably be asking your manager WTF is going on.

The second point is a good one and I think there is a very strong argument that all third parties deals should be made public, but it would probably be a pretty tough negotiation with the AFLPA.

There is a difference between trying to guess and actually knowing.

If player X is on $450,000 at a top team, him a solid B grade player who is selected every week. He knows he is on a bit less than other players of his skill level but accepts it because he is in a top team and knows that in order to be in that top team he needs to accept less. However he really isn't sure exactly how much other players are being paid.

Then all player salaries are published and he sees that player Y, who is in a lower ranked team, but who is definitely not as good as him, is on $650,000 a year. Now, player X knew he was on less, but now he knows he is on $200,000 a year less, and that his career isn't that long, and he only has another contract or two, him learning that over the life of his AFL career he could earn $1 million less than player Y despite being a better player. The difference between guessing that, and actually knowing it is huge as that $1 million could set up player X for life, he may not need to work after AFL with that extra money, but if he stayed at his current club he may need to find a new job after football as he wasn't paid enough to completely retire.

If I were player X I would seriously consider finding a club lower down the order but one which would pay me 30% more than I am currently earning, enough to set me up for life.
 

Patronus

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Really the biggest issue is expansion clubs being feeder clubs for big Vic teams in general. Not sure a Richmond supporter can complain about this aspect.

Would like to see their salary cap and off the books 'incentives' under far greater scrutiny, considering the rumours about the club buying property for players off the record.

The annoying thing to me though is their utter hypocrisy when pleading for clubs to trade players wanting to go home to Geelong, yet holding players not from there to their contract and demanding overs for said players but offering up crap for those coming home.

I honestly won't be surprised to see teams start playing Geelong's game from now on when trading with them.

Still upset over Tim Kelly are you?

Which players still under contract have Geelong tried to steal away from their clubs?

Geelong have traded away quite a few who have asked to leave while still contracted over the last few years and not asked a great deal in return.
 

HairyO

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The AFL should do that as well to be honest. They won't but it would be the fairest thing they could do.

They hate not knowing. Zero chance they risk unearthing massive cap dodging in more than a dozen clubs.
 

Patronus

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There is a difference between trying to guess and actually knowing.

If player X is on $450,000 at a top team, him a solid B grade player who is selected every week. He knows he is on a bit less than other players of his skill level but accepts it because he is in a top team and knows that in order to be in that top team he needs to accept less. However he really isn't sure exactly how much other players are being paid.

Then all player salaries are published and he sees that player Y, who is in a lower ranked team, but who is definitely not as good as him, is on $650,000 a year. Now, player X knew he was on less, but now he knows he is on $200,000 a year less, and that his career isn't that long, and he only has another contract or two, him learning that over the life of his AFL career he could earn $1 million less than player Y despite being a better player. The difference between guessing that, and actually knowing it is huge as that $1 million could set up player X for life, he may not need to work after AFL with that extra money, but if he stayed at his current club he may need to find a new job after football as he wasn't paid enough to completely retire.

If I were player X I would seriously consider finding a club lower down the order but one which would pay me 30% more than I am currently earning, enough to set me up for life.

There is a revelation that you can trade team success for money.

How have the players never figured this out?
 

Fadge

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Richmond finished top 8 added Taranto and Hopper
Melbourne Hunter and Grundy
Lions Ashcroft Fletcher Dunks and Gunston

all the top teams added
Very much a case of the haves and the have nots in 2023.

Port also traded well, so will be interesting to see how 9 goes into 8 in 2023, with Port joining the 2022 Top 8 in Premiership contention.
 

Cursed Cat

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2005
12,108
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Simple question with an obvious answer in my eyes.. YES they have become too powerful!! How is it a team can win a grand final by a huge margin, yet still be able to get their hands on pick 7... and trade in players for peanuts who were previously drafted in the first round, just because they played for the Falcons??

Imagine the media outrage if this was one of the big Melbourne clubs?? Instead, all we hear is how it's all down to good management and culture.. when if this was one of the big Melbourne clubs.. all the media commentary would be about how unfairly advantaged the big Melbourne club is, and what needs to be done to curb said advantages.

This all started when Geelong supporter Steve Bracks got into power and began greasing the wheels for the Geelong Football Club.. and surprise surprise, this has turned Geelong into a powerful.. albeit too powerful, football club.

You squirtin' a few over there big guy? Cats are living rent free in your head champ. That Steve Bracks line is some of the most unsubstantiated rubbish I've read on BF in quite some time - congratulations on being the Tinfoil Hat King - you may now upgrade to a Tinfoil Crown!

Too powerful, pffft - we've won a single flag in 11 years.

We have managed to attract/retain players who have strong roots in the region - often these players are prepared to take ''unders'' so that they can live a slightly more rural lifestyle closer to their families and friends.

As Joel Selwood said, you come to Geelong for the experience, not the money.
We have a list of players willing to buy-in to a structured pay system where no one is getting paid significantly more or less than anyone else.
We have a coach who recognises the value of reducing contact hours with the club so that the players are not overloaded with footyfootyfooty 24/7.

These types of things matter to certain players - not all players; couldn't imagine Buddy Franklin buying in to the Geelong system.

The Bowes deal is totally on the Suns. The fact that we had space in the cap comes back to the fact that we have players who are happily getting paid less than they would at other clubs just so they can have a better home/work balance.

At the end of the day we picked up 3 players who might not even crack our best 22 in 2023, with the very unexpected bonus of #7 at the ND (thanks in part to Pat Dangerfield's managerial link to Bowes and the fact that he was good enough to reach out to Bowes throughout the year when Bowes couldn't crack Gold Coast's best 22).

We're not too powerful - but we've arrived at a reasonably good system that is currently working for us.

We get knocked over by Collingwood in our first final this year and who knows where things would stand. But we didn't, and we're reigning premiers for 2022 and we've done ok at trade week.

Squirt a few more salty ones bud, get it all out.
 

Patronus

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Jun 17, 2003
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They hate not knowing. Zero chance they risk unearthing massive cap dodging in more than a dozen clubs.
The problem will be what are the rules going to be and how do you prove that the club had a hand in it?

Are you going to stop players getting any type of income outside of their contracts? Can they not have a job or start a business. Many players use their profiles to start a business outside of football are you going to police every aspect of their lives?
 

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