Have Geelong become too powerful?

[PhatBoy]

Inside running reads a terrible lot like ‘they scout well.’

 

[El Pablo]

It's definitely worth taking note of the allegiances of those in the media, particularly those on SEN.
Very Geelong biased that radio station....

 

[Bostonian]

You’d think reading this that other clubs are banned from watching junior football.

You'd think it was obvious that such a labour intensive process is easier for a club which has people involved with it spread around a less congested space that hosts a traditionally strong TAC team and a super strong local league exists.

It's far easier for Geelong to watch it's local players than it is for Melbourne teams to have the same amount of information pouring into it.

You literally got Stewart because you had someone at his club pushing him for you to evaluate.

That's common all over the Geelong District.

 

[Ceehook]

This is a good read of Costa reflecting on what he and Cook had to wade through during that period.

Frank & earnest

Whatever happens this afternoon, it will be the end of an era at Skilled Stadium.

www.theage.com.au

clearly a good working partnership between Costa & Cook

the $10 mil , with a $2.5 mil write down must be where I recall the $7 mil figure I sure the talk of the time was "will they ever recover from that ? "

sure did

 

[PhatBoy]

You'd think it was obvious that such a labour intensive process is easier for a club which has people involved with it spread around a less congested space that hosts a traditionally strong TAC team and a super strong local league exists.

It's far easier for Geelong to watch it's local players than it is for Melbourne teams to have the same amount of information pouring into it.

You literally got Stewart because you had someone at his club pushing him for you to evaluate.

That's common all over the Geelong District.

And you don’t think any of the hundreds of employees at the other clubs are exposed to that sort of opportunity.

I suppose it was our geography that allowed us to pick up Menegola and Tim Kelly from under Fremantle and WCE’s nose too.

We got Stewart because we hired Matthew Scarlett, who in between his playing and coaching careers had played with Stewart. If we don’t hire Scarlett, we probably don’t get Stewart.

Mate, we don’t get extra roster spots to the other club. We don’t get a bigger salary cap. We don’t get to put dibs on players who nominate for the draft.

If geography was so important, maybe back in the day when you could just pick anyone from your zone, why didn’t we win more?

 

[Bostonian]

And you don’t think any of the hundreds of employees at the other clubs are exposed to that sort of opportunity.

I suppose it was our geography that allowed us to pick up Menegola and Tim Kelly from under Fremantle and WCE’s nose too.

We got Stewart because we hired Matthew Scarlett, who in between his playing and coaching careers had played with Stewart. If we don’t hire Scarlett, we probably don’t get Stewart.

Mate, we don’t get extra roster spots to the other club. We don’t get a bigger salary cap. We don’t get to put dibs on players who nominate for the draft.

If geography was so important, maybe back in the day when you could just pick anyone from your zone, why didn’t we win more?

Why are you having a big sook about this?

Nobody has said it's a negative, simply you're geographically lucky.

Imagine trying to refute that.

You didn't win more back in the day because Falcons didn't exist and the professionalism of junior leagues back then is nothing like it is today.

Comparing my generation having been around junior rep teams as a player compared to young players I know who have gone through these modern systems it's chalk and cheese.

They put in far more hours, far more professionalism, far more mapped out programs.

 

[PhatBoy]

Why are you having a big sook about this?

Nobody has said it's a negative, simply you're geographically lucky.

Imagine trying to refute that.

You didn't win more back in the day because Falcons didn't exist and the professionalism of junior leagues back then is nothing like it is today.

Comparing my generation having been around junior rep teams as a player compared to young players I know who have gone through these modern systems it's chalk and cheese.

They put in far more hours, far more professionalism, far more mapped out programs.

Because it’s yet another demonstration of the AFL fan demographic’s general inability to just look at something successful and accept that it’s effective because of quality. There seems to be this habit of anything succeeding being ‘excused’ as some sort of consequence of luck.

Melbourne win a flag? Must be because they played a grand final in Perth. Not because they were clearly the best team in the comp and on grand final day.

Hawthorn and Richmond win 5 flags between them on the MCG? There’s a cacophony of f***wits putting it down to their familiarity with the ground or had a number of high draft picks in their side, Geelong it’s because we have our own home ground….. that we play on 8 times a year or so.

Sydney have a few extra bucks to try and hang onto their players in a situation where 80 per cent of their players have to be dragged away from home. It’s not because they’re an awesome club and amazingly run.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Reasonable summation. Not sure who 'Davidson' was but the stroke of genius was recruiting the best CEO, Brian Cook. He was able to negotiate a deal with the banks who were owed money, and he them devised the blueprint for player payments. It's no secret Cats stars were generally paid less than what they could command elsewhere.

Mummie was still on a rookie salary when he left. Swans must have offered him more than 5 times what he was on. Cats tsuck with Mark Blake, which in hindisght was a mistake.

We have to thank Richmond for Max Holmes. They traded a draft pick for a future pick enabling Cats to get Max

Love to know how Cook and Costa were able to convince the bank to take only a third of what they were owed. I’d like to try it on my bank manager.

 

[Bostonian]

Because it’s yet another demonstration of the AFL fan demographic’s general inability to just look at something successful and accept that it’s effective because of quality. There seems to be this habit of anything succeeding being ‘excused’ as some sort of consequence of luck.

Melbourne win a flag? Must be because they played a grand final in Perth. Not because they were clearly the best team in the comp and on grand final day.

Hawthorn and Richmond win 5 flags between them on the MCG? There’s a cacophony of f***wits putting it down to their familiarity with the ground or had a number of high draft picks in their side, Geelong it’s because we have our own home ground….. that we play on 8 times a year or so.

Sydney have a few extra bucks to try and hang onto their players in a situation where 80 per cent of their players have to be dragged away from home. It’s not because they’re an awesome club and amazingly run.

Nobody said it is the only reason why. But to deny it's not a factor is just lying.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nobody said it is the only reason why. But to deny it's not a factor is just lying.

Because for every conceivable advantage it allegedly provides there would be something equal at another club that we don’t get.

If ‘because heartland’ was a legitimate reason for any club succeeding there would be patterns of it across all sports and all leagues.

What about the fact that to observe players ‘under our nose’ we have this enormous area across multiple postcodes and regions to try and keep tabs on. Metro clubs have areas within 20-30km that have just as much talent to scout on a per capita basis.

For every kid that wants to come to or stay in a quiet area, there’s another half dozen who want bright city lights.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Conventional wisdom suggests that the reigning premier will be around the mark next year, but rarely goes back to back. Everyone has deathridden them for a decade suspecting that they will drop only to find out that they have almost never dropped out of the top 4. They clearly have an organisation that keeps them 'above the pack' but I can't see it lasting much longer. Selwood/ Hawkins were clearly playing for almost nothing which is an advantage that cannot be understated. The question is, who is the next Selwood/ Hawkins that will do that? Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

is on a long term deal for good (admittedly not great) money. Dangerfield is almost cooked (I know we have deathridden Geelong players before, but he clearly is at the 'needs to be managed' stage of his career and he plays about 10kg heavier than any other player that has gone north of 300 games - the second he loses a bit of pace, he's not Danger anymore). Their ability to pluck mature aged stars out of the VFL has to continue for them to keep up and it adds to the dilemma. Hawkins/Selwood/Smith played well into their 30s and were highly rated players by 21-22. They had earned their money already. If I'm a Blicavs, Tom Stewart, or Cam Guthrie, I'm wanting my money to. They seem like loyal players that will accept slightly unders, but I don't see them accepting 150-200k so that they can fit in the next Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

. That's a big ask to pay for someone who has already been overpaid somewhere like a GWS while you have had half a career or built into your career waiting for that final payday.

They will start favourites this year, but to me they are super vulnerable. Their forward line is based around 2 power forwards. When Cameron was injured in 2021, they looked a completely different team. They lose one of Hawkins/ Cameron and they can't win. Their strength is their defence but they are thin on depth. They lose a KPD and they are light on, they lose 2 and they are stuffed. I reckon they have a Port 2022 year in them sometime over the next 2-3 years and outside of that period, they will drop back to the other good sides when they can't replace the players retiring on the money they were being paid. They're frustratingly consistent but we have had 'will x team every lose' threads before. Even Sydney had to drop out of the 8 to rejuvenate their list. Life will go on and we will be poking fun at them soon enough when some bullshit team like Freo/GWS are our new overlords.

 

[Hoops]

Geelong are simply just lucky they have one of the best country football leagues in their backyard.

They get far more of a benefit from local talent than other clubs do.

Carlton were lucky when Bendigo fell in it's zone when it was one of the best country football leagues going round.

 

[PhatBoy]

Conventional wisdom suggests that the reigning premier will be around the mark next year, but rarely goes back to back. Everyone has deathridden them for a decade suspecting that they will drop only to find out that they have almost never dropped out of the top 4. They clearly have an organisation that keeps them 'above the pack' but I can't see it lasting much longer. Selwood/ Hawkins were clearly playing for almost nothing which is an advantage that cannot be understated. The question is, who is the next Selwood/ Hawkins that will do that? Jeremy Cameron is on a long term deal for good (admittedly not great) money. Dangerfield is almost cooked (I know we have deathridden Geelong players before, but he clearly is at the 'needs to be managed' stage of his career and he plays about 10kg heavier than any other player that has gone north of 300 games - the second he loses a bit of pace, he's not Danger anymore). Their ability to pluck mature aged stars out of the VFL has to continue for them to keep up and it adds to the dilemma. Hawkins/Selwood/Smith played well into their 30s and were highly rated players by 21-22. They had earned their money already. If I'm a Blicavs, Tom Stewart, or Cam Guthrie, I'm wanting my money to. They seem like loyal players that will accept slightly unders, but I don't see them accepting 150-200k so that they can fit in the next Jeremy Cameron. That's a big ask to pay for someone who has already been overpaid somewhere like a GWS while you have had half a career or built into your career waiting for that final payday.

They will start favourites this year, but to me they are super vulnerable. Their forward line is based around 2 power forwards. When Cameron was injured in 2021, they looked a completely different team. They lose one of Hawkins/ Cameron and they can't win. Their strength is their defence but they are thin on depth. They lose a KPD and they are light on, they lose 2 and they are stuffed. I reckon they have a Port 2022 year in them sometime over the next 2-3 years and outside of that period, they will drop back to the other good sides when they can't replace the players retiring on the money they were being paid. They're frustratingly consistent but we have had 'will x team every lose' threads before. Even Sydney had to drop out of the 8 to rejuvenate their list. Life will go on and we will be poking fun at them soon enough when some bullshit team like Freo/GWS are our new overlords.

Some decent points but we went 7-3 without Cameron in 2021, 10-5 with him.

Our win percentage rose without him.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Some decent points but we went 7-3 without Cameron in 2021, 10-5 with him.

Our win percentage rose without him.

Had a look at the games where Cameron played. Alot of games against top 8 sides. Not sure it is reflective of your team's performance throughout the year. Wins against top sides seemed to be in games where Hawkins/Cameron contributed meaningfully (which also brought Rohan into the game) whereas games against top sides were lost when 1 or both went missing.

 

[Strange Cat]

The other exponents of it (puopolo, Dylan Moore, the Collingwood tip rat, etc) discussed. Selwood, they have always deflected. Whenever he gets brought up it's " oh, that's different"

They drop to their knees like cheap hookers when tackled, Joel continues to play on

Big difference if you can manage to see through those tears

 

[Strange Cat]

Oh please, I've lived in Geelong all my life.

Your club has been backhanding players via dodgy deals for ******* decades.

1995 wants their paper bags back please …which is actually factual instead of your hissy fit accusation

 

[Strange Cat]

You'd think it was obvious that such a labour intensive process is easier for a club which has people involved with it spread around a less congested space that hosts a traditionally strong TAC team and a super strong local league exists.

It's far easier for Geelong to watch it's local players than it is for Melbourne teams to have the same amount of information pouring into it.

You literally got Stewart because you had someone at his club pushing him for you to evaluate.

That's common all over the Geelong District.

Sounds like a lot of sooking on your part rather than anything insidious or advantageous to Geelong

 

[PrisonBars4life]

They drop to their knees like cheap hookers when tackled, Joel continues to play on

Big difference if you can manage to see through those tears

Selwood trying to draw a high free:

Say what you want about any player, I've never seen worse than Selwood. Would duck into a tackle, headbutt the opposition with the back of his head and wriggle around trying to suck in the umpire, and then teapot if he didn't get the right call. Makes me angry knowing that if we had a player who played the same way, not only would they get about half the free kicks that Selwood did, but commentators would use it to justify why legitimate ones to other players in the team were not paid.

 

[Strange Cat]

Selwood trying to draw a high free:

Say what you want about any player, I've never seen worse than Selwood. Would duck into a tackle, headbutt the opposition with the back of his head and wriggle around trying to suck in the umpire, and then teapot if he didn't get the right call. Makes me angry knowing that if we had a player who played the same way, not only would they get about half the free kicks that Selwood did, but commentators would use it to justify why legitimate ones to other players in the team were not paid.

Show me one clip where he ducked into a tackle

 

[lumpinee]

Have Geelong become too powerful?
Simple answer is Yes.

The better question is, Were Geelong "given" too powerful?.
The simple answer is No.

They did it better.
It's up to the rest of us to match and better them.

match what ? 10 flags in 130 years ?,good deflection
id rather 8-10 years of total mediocrity then bang!!! 3-4 flags over 8 yrs or so, 40 yrs goes by and your 6 for the good as a minimum

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Show me one clip where he ducked into a tackle

How about grabbing the opponent's hand and wrapping it around your own neck while dropping your knees... is that ducking?

 

[Strange Cat]

How about grabbing the opponent's hand and wrapping it around your own neck while dropping your knees... is that ducking?

Fending off the arm for a high tackle …a shrug to get out of a tackle

didn’t duck into a tackle

Try harder …just one clip showing Joel ducking into a tackle surely you can find one

 

[PhatBoy]

match what ? 10 flags in 130 years ?,good deflection
id rather 8-10 years of total mediocrity then bang!!! 3-4 flags over 8 yrs or so, 40 yrs goes by and your 6 for the good as a minimum

Yeah you’re right the last 15 years has been no fun because stuff that happened when I wasn’t born.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Show me one clip where he ducked into a tackle

You've got to be pretty committed to cut up a Selwood ducking package and the media won't do it because they're too busy gagging on his balls. Show me a clip of an umpire making a decision that was clearly wrong and favoured Port. Should be 1000 times easier than finding Selwood free kicks. If you can't it must have never happened right? When this used to get brought up I would post the footage of Trengove decking him, but I can't seem to find it anymore either.

 

[Strange Cat]

You've got to be pretty committed to cut up a Selwood ducking package and the media won't do it because they're too busy gagging on his balls. Show me a clip of an umpire making a decision that was clearly wrong and favoured Port. Should be 1000 times easier than finding Selwood free kicks. If you can't it must have never happened right? When this used to get brought up I would post the footage of Trengove decking him, but I can't seem to find it anymore either.

So that’s a no?

Thought so