Have Geelong become too powerful?

[Footy_Fan2007]

Because it’s yet another demonstration of the AFL fan demographic’s general inability to just look at something successful and accept that it’s effective because of quality. There seems to be this habit of anything succeeding being ‘excused’ as some sort of consequence of luck.

Tall poppy mate. The country reeks of it. Especially AFL fans.

 

[Freddy Swift]

So was bartlett then a cheat for doing this when he did?? i assume you accept this fact then with such selwood opinions, that bartlett spent a portion of his career a cheat

I have never said Selwood was a cheat. I think what Bartlett did was bending the rules for advantage which is exactly what Selwood did. Except the league stopped Bartlett from continuing to do it. Selwood was allowed to keep doing it.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I heard when took the job back at Geelong that Hocking wanted to stay at the AFL until the end of the year but they told him to clear out his desk and get out.

 

[Sttew]

I heard when took the job back at Geelong that Hocking wanted to stay at the AFL until the end of the year but they told him to clear out his desk and get out.

You read that in your Dusty GOAT thread. In fact you wrote it. TROLL

 

[Sttew]

I have never said Selwood was a cheat. I think what Bartlett did was bending the rules for advantage which is exactly what Selwood did. Except the league stopped Bartlett from continuing to do it. Selwood was allowed to keep doing it.

Because when the AFL looked at what Selwood did to shrug tackles they realised it was legal, and that umpires could not be expected to make a split second decision, differentiating between what was and what wasn’t sloppy tackling resulting in around the neck. Gil said, “We don’t want to end up with tacklers deliberately tackling around the neck and being rewarded”

 

[Freddy Swift]

Because when the AFL looked at what Selwood did to shrug tackles they realised it was legal, and that umpires could not be expected to make a split second decision, differentiating between what was and what wasn’t sloppy tackling resulting in around the neck. Gil said, “We don’t want to end up with tacklers deliberately tackling around the neck and being rewarded”

What Bartlett did was legal at the time also, but because someone said (I think it was Barassi) “It’s not fair, if you’re bouncing the ball you are still in possession.” So they changed the rule so that if he bounced the ball when tackled it would be holding the ball or incorrect disposal as they call it now.

You’re not honestly going to say with a straight face Selwood didn’t help the tackle go above his shoulder are you?

 

[Sttew]

What Bartlett did was legal at the time also, but because someone said (I think it was Barassi) “It’s not fair, if you’re bouncing the ball you are still in possession.” So they changed the rule so that if he bounced the ball when tackled it would be holding the ball or incorrect disposal as they call it now.

You’re not honestly going to say with a straight face Selwood didn’t help the tackle go above his shoulder are you?

By shrugging the shoulder? Yes. But if the tackler wrapped his arms around Selwood’s waist he’d never draw a free. End of story. For 16 years every player knew what to expect yet they continued tackling him the exact same way.

 

[STPer18]

I heard when took the job back at Geelong that Hocking wanted to stay at the AFL until the end of the year but they told him to clear out his desk and get out.

I heard Hocking was actually still secretly pulling the strings as recent as last year's finals series. He masterminded Geelong's premiership success and Richmond's ARC-atastrophe.

 

[Freddy Swift]

By shrugging the shoulder? Yes. But if the tackler wrapped his arms around Selwood’s waist he’d never draw a free. End of story. For 16 years every player knew what to expect yet they continued tackling him the exact same way.

Not just shrugging the shoulder, raising his arm so that the opponents hand just has to slip above the shoulder, even if it didn’t start there, and also dropping his knees.

Do you think every opposition player in the heat of a fast moving game has time to stop and think ‘Gee it’s Joel Selwood, I better grab him round the waist’?

 

[Strange Cat]

Not just shrugging the shoulder, raising his arm so that the opponents hand just has to slip above the shoulder, even if it didn’t start there, and also dropping his knees.

Do you think every opposition player in the heat of a fast moving game has time to stop and think ‘Gee it’s Joel Selwood, I better grab him round the waist’?

Tackle around the waist and stop crying about it would be my response

The AFL found it to be in the rules so if there was an issue with his technique he would had been penalised like Ginivan and pupolo were

 

[FourthTimeAround]

For every Geelong supporter that quotes Selwood is fine because the AFL says so, a pity there wasn't enough of that acceptance for every other AFL decision ever.
They can never get anything wrong of course.

Accept he's the beneficiary of some pretty biased decision making instead. It's far more infuriating for opposition fans if you just nod and smirk.

 

[Strange Cat]

For every Geelong supporter that quotes Selwood is fine because the AFL says so, a pity there wasn't enough of that acceptance for every other AFL decision ever.
They can never get anything wrong of course.

Accept he's the beneficiary of some pretty biased decision making instead. It's far more infuriating for opposition fans if you just nod and smirk.

Oh well you’ll live the AFL had 355 games to come down on Joel if there was an issue, obviously it’s just sour grapes that the opposition thinks he broke the rules and got away with it

* them

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You read that in your Dusty GOAT thread. In fact you wrote it. TROLL

No someone else did first thanyou.

 

[Sttew]

Do you think every opposition player in the heat of a fast moving game has time to stop and think ‘Gee it’s Joel Selwood, I better grab him round the waist’?

Abso-*******-lutely!!! Look how quickly tacklers mastered pinning the arms , and how quickly they execute that move…

 

[Freddy Swift]

Abso-*******-lutely!!! Look how quickly tacklers mastered pinning the arms , and how quickly they execute that move…

If you say so. No need to swear

 

[PhatBoy]

Not just shrugging the shoulder, raising his arm so that the opponents hand just has to slip above the shoulder, even if it didn’t start there, and also dropping his knees.

Do you think every opposition player in the heat of a fast moving game has time to stop and think ‘Gee it’s Joel Selwood, I better grab him round the waist’?

You need to understand that anyone on either side of the argument can see that Selwood would lift his arm to shrug the tackle. You also need to understand that all it does is force the tackler to either be better with it, or transgress the rules. 99 per cent of the time it was used as a means of trying to break the tackle and you have to allow the player in possession an opportunity to attempt that.

There are probably dozens of other examples from other teams but the tackler who immediately springs to mind from Geelong is Max Rooke. I’m sure at some point it happened but I can’t remember it: he was incredible at getting his arms around the player in possession and having the strength to pin both arms and eliminate either a disposal or the breaking of the tackle. He had a lot of strength. The best opponents Selwood faced would do the same thing but he himself was very strong in the upper body and as such it meant that few players could pull it off with any consistency.

You also need to simply allow for the fact that players are under an obligation if they’re not going to hand pass, to try any means possible to simply get out of the tackle and if that means bending to let the arm go over you or whatever, then thats what happens.

I get the opposition frustration I really do but aside from the rule change they made about initiating your own contact with the head I don’t really see what rule they could possibly introduce aside from to have some discretion about body height.

Even in rugby league now, though, they penalise everything.
I was brought up to accept that if you were falling down in a tackle and someone collected you around the head or neck, there was no way you’d get a penalty.

That’s no longer the case anymore and personally I think it’s a terrible rule

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Never saw Selwood do a clear duck headfirst into a tackle like this for example

 

[DanA]

I have never said Selwood was a cheat. I think what Bartlett did was bending the rules for advantage which is exactly what Selwood did. Except the league stopped Bartlett from continuing to do it. Selwood was allowed to keep doing it.

Wasn't the ducking rule the league's effort to stop what essentially Selwood had mastered?

 

[Freddy Swift]

Wasn't the ducking rule the league's effort to stop what essentially Selwood had mastered?

Are you saying Selwood mastered ducking?

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

This is a simple case of confusing terminology.

Ducking (in my opinion) is the act of lowering your head in a forwards motion to initiate contact with an opponent. See post 842 (just above this post) for an excellent example. It's what you do when you walk through a low door-way.

What Selwood did was not ducking (as per the example above). We all know this. Typically, when he was tackled he would raise his arm and bend at the knees in an attempt to either break the tackle or force the tackle high.

Some bright spark inaccurately coined the name "Duckwood" and thousands of lemmings jumped aboard. That is all.

 

[Freddy Swift]

This is a simple case of confusing terminology.

Ducking (in my opinion) is the act of lowering your head in a forwards motion to initiate contact with an opponent. See post 842 (just above this post) for an excellent example. It's what you do when you walk through a low door-way.

What Selwood did was not ducking (as per the example above). We all know this. Typically, when he was tackled he would raise his arm and bend at the knees in an attempt to either break the tackle or force the tackle high.

Some bright spark inaccurately coined the name "Duckwood" and thousands of lemmings jumped aboard. That is all.

Okay I accept what you say but can you tell me how bending at the knees is an attempt to break a tackle? In my view that and raising the arm is an attempt to con the umpire into giving you a free kick.

 

[SplintWhisky]

You need to understand that anyone on either side of the argument can see that Selwood would lift his arm to shrug the tackle. You also need to understand that all it does is force the tackler to either be better with it, or transgress the rules. 99 per cent of the time it was used as a means of trying to break the tackle and you have to allow the player in possession an opportunity to attempt that.

There are probably dozens of other examples from other teams but the tackler who immediately springs to mind from Geelong is Max Rooke. I’m sure at some point it happened but I can’t remember it: he was incredible at getting his arms around the player in possession and having the strength to pin both arms and eliminate either a disposal or the breaking of the tackle. He had a lot of strength. The best opponents Selwood faced would do the same thing but he himself was very strong in the upper body and as such it meant that few players could pull it off with any consistency.

You also need to simply allow for the fact that players are under an obligation if they’re not going to hand pass, to try any means possible to simply get out of the tackle and if that means bending to let the arm go over you or whatever, then thats what happens.

I get the opposition frustration I really do but aside from the rule change they made about initiating your own contact with the head I don’t really see what rule they could possibly introduce aside from to have some discretion about body height.

Even in rugby league now, though, they penalise everything.
I was brought up to accept that if you were falling down in a tackle and someone collected you around the head or neck, there was no way you’d get a penalty.

That’s no longer the case anymore and personally I think it’s a terrible rule

Selwood was a shrugger and it is annoying and from a personal point I hope he doesn't have any long term effects.

Whilst Selwood is a shrugger, he isnt the annoying Hail'er. Ginnavin and Puopolo style of as soon as you get tackled, throw your arm up like the Fuher is walking past. These are the ones that are just way too blatant and need to be outlawed.

I heard Hocking was actually still secretly pulling the strings as recent as last year's finals series. He masterminded Geelong's premiership success and Richmond's ARC-atastrophe.

God I wish that were true. It is much easier to get over the sting when it is orchestrated and not just incompetence. The kick was a point but that was only confirmed definitively with fan footage.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Okay I accept what you say but can you tell me how bending at the knees is an attempt to break a tackle? In my view that and raising the arm is an attempt to con the umpire into giving you a free kick.

Not necessarily to break the tackle, but to force it high. My comment was either/or.

And (from my admittedly biased perspective), Selwood almost always tried to play on. i.e. He didn't stop and look at the umpire. You may remember it differently.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Selwood was a shrugger and it is annoying and from a personal point I hope he doesn't have any long term effects.

Whilst Selwood is a shrugger, he isnt the annoying Hail'er. Ginnavin and Puopolo style of as soon as you get tackled, throw your arm up like the Fuher is walking past. These are the ones that are just way too blatant and need to be outlawed.


God I wish that were true. It is much easier to get over the sting when it is orchestrated and not just incompetence. The kick was a point but that was only confirmed definitively with fan footage.

Shrugger is a more apt description than ducker, for Selwood. Agreed.

 

[catscollector]

For every Geelong supporter that quotes Selwood is fine because the AFL says so, a pity there wasn't enough of that acceptance for every other AFL decision ever.
They can never get anything wrong of course.

Accept he's the beneficiary of some pretty biased decision making instead. It's far more infuriating for opposition fans if you just nod and smirk.

I was fine with what Selwood did for the first 5-7 years of his career but then it became a blight on the game. Every time he gathered the ball, I expected a free kick. Technically, he was within his rights to warrant the free but for the spectacle of the game, it became a bit of a joke.
The only saving grace was the fact he always displayed kamikaze courage so even if the free was not given, he still wins the ball and gets rid of it (albeit ineffectually).

I do fear for his long term health. The amount of times he copped knocks to the head while shrugging the shoulders, along with his brutal style of play, it could pose issues.