Have Geelong Improved? Or has the Rest of the Comp Gone Backwards?

[Sttew]

I'm not sure what your point is?


My point is, that although you may land in a particular place on the ladder due to winning a certain amount of games - it is not necessarily a true indication of how good a team you actually are.

It's pretty simple.

You need to quit while you have a skerrick of credibility. You’re too proud to admit your OP is plain stupid and not thought out

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You need to quit while you have a skerrick of credibility. You’re too proud to admit your OP is plain stupid and not thought out

This doesn't add to the discussion one bit.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Geelong has improved. They've changed their style, far more attacking, far less stagnant, added Stengle forward and De Koning in defence. Credit to Scott he saw what wasn't working and changed it up - some would say 5 years too late but better late than never.

 

[Footy Smarts]

The most obvious example of us improving is last year we were playing Holmes in midfield in the prelim final. Injuries didn't leave us much choice. He was a talented but very raw young player with a handful of games under his belt who was not ready for that level of footy.

Fast forward 12 months and we're leaving out Parfitt by choice despite getting coaches votes in 2 of the last 3 games. Same with Menegola being left out.

I think the game style changes are a bit overblown but the fact we've got way better depth and we don't have the injuries we had last year means we're miles better.

 

[demondavey]

It’s pretty obvious Geelong has improved. Sydney has improved, Collingwood, Fremantle have also improved.

 

[Duskfire]

It does feel like a weaker year than 21, with potential challengers in Port Adelaide, Carlton, and Richmond underperforming. I expect Carlton and Richmond to challenge for the top 4 next year, and either of those sides could have provided stronger competition for Geelong than Brisbane gave last week.

But Collingwood, Sydney and Freo all performed better, so don't they cancel each other out?

I always find the weak year argument weird and I don't even know how one quantifies that really. I could maybe see 2007 as an argument, because for the most part Geelong was just destroying everyone (with the exception of Collingwood). But was 2009 a weak year despite there being two exceptionally strong teams and nothing else? How about 2015? Its a strange argument.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I always find the weak year argument weird and I don't even know how one quantifies that really.

Well you can't quantify improvements either, and that concept is relative.

So both are mere perceptions.

 

[Milanista28]

Clearly a better team, OP doesn't watch football I guess.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

It's a moot point. All that matters is whether you're better than the team you are playing at any given time. And as much as it pains me to say it, Geelong are better than the teams they are playing at the moment.

 

[juss]

The narrative this year has been about the genius of Chris Scott and his reinvention of Geelong, in order to take them to the next level.

Apparently this is why they're better this year, statistically, than in recent years.

But I put it to you, that Geelong haven't improved at all. They're the same. They're the same Geelong that is a top 4 team with some warhorse superstars, some solid pros, and some average young guys.
The same Geelong that wins enough games at home to have a healthy % to match their win/loss and land in the top 4 - but always seems to find 1 or 2 teams that are just better each year.

The difference this year is not any changes to their game plan. It is not any changes to their personnel. It is that those 1 or 2 teams that are just better than them each year don't exist!

The comp has, without doubt in my mind, gone backwards this year.

That's why the standard feels better - because good teams are playing other good teams, and good teams are playing average teams each week. Not great teams beating up on average teams, and great teams handling good teams comfortably each week.

Collingwood are an average team in any other season. Sydney would be a 'team on the rise' in any other season. The 2022 version of Brisbane does not play in a Prelim in any other season.

St Kilda does not 'just miss the 8' in any other season. I mean s**t, they beat both Geelong and Sydney!

The comp is even, not because the rubbish teams are better this year, but because the great teams don't exist this year, and the really good teams aren't as good as other years.


Now this ain't a bad thing. And it's not a knock on Geelong. I just felt the need to dispel yet another bullshit footy myth that the media spruik and the public lap up.

IMO they are playing footy differently than they have in the past, so even if a lot of the names are the same, a different mindset, management of players and gamestyle can absolutely improve a team.

 

[Duskfire]

This has also not come from nowhere. I forgot where I read it, but I saw that the majority of players who are playing well were drafted in a 2015 to 2018 window. So Geelong have basically rebuilt over that period; three to four years after that you would expect any team to perform better.

 

[Micksy]

Hopefully there's another 5 year period of backwards performances just like 2007-2011.
(With the obvious exceptions of 2008 and 2010. Those were some of the all time most competetive seasons.)

 

[Micksy]

It matters because having a % of 104 indicates you're an average team that hasn't been winning convincingly.

The fact that an average team that hasn't been winning convincingly all year, pushes both GF teams to within a point, suggests that the standard of the competition is very weak this year.

Sounds like you've got yourself a foolproof money maker here.
9 bets a round.
Simply bet on the team with the higher percentage.

 

[Warhorse]

Well I did say this seemed like a weak year...Geelong were almost beaten in the QF by a team with a % of 104.

At their home ground

 

[Hinkley29]

That's because the opposition is poor. Not because Hawkins and Cameron are magically better players what they used to be. It's because the opposition is inferior to what it's been in previous years.

Cameron is a significantly better player this year than last. He is also playing a vastly different role. Stop posting if you can’t see that.

 

[demondavey]

Well you can't quantify improvements either, and that concept is relative.

So both are mere perceptions.

Of course you can quantify improvement.

That’s complete an utter nonsense.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Cameron is a significantly better player this year than last. He is also playing a vastly different role. Stop posting if you can’t see that.

Exactly right, Cameron has hit the ground running this year, moved up the ground, smashed packs, he has been twice the player he was.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Of course you can quantify improvement.

That’s complete an utter nonsense.

How?

Careful how you respond.

 

[PhatBoy]

How?

Careful how you respond.

In case what? The internet breaks?

 

[Sttew]

Careful how you respond.

Why? Because you’ll embarrass yourself even further?

 

[aCunningPlan]

Why? Because you’ll embarrass yourself even further?

He's teetering on the edge, be too harsh and he'll go full troppo. Be careful, for his sake.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Why? Because you’ll embarrass yourself even further?

I'm not sure this type of comment really adds much to the discussion.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

In case what? The internet breaks?

No.

But people are generally, on here, very bad at differentiating between fact and opinion.

And as a result, tend to go all Leroy Jenkins in their attempt for a gotcha moment and make really silly statements.

The notion that improvement can be quantifiable, in a sport that involves an opponent that is not static, is quite clearly a silly thing to say.
But demondavey seems poised to charge in blindly with a 'gotcha' moment, that if it goes how I suspect - will make him look really dumb.

 

[Sttew]

I'm not sure this type of comment really adds much to the discussion.

Seriously, you are telling everyone you cannot see any improvement in Geelong this year and you expect plaudits for that? How many Cats games did you watch this year?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Seriously, you are telling everyone you cannot see any improvement in Geelong this year and you expect plaudits for that? How many Cats games did you watch this year?

I don't expect plaudits.

You're a bit too emotional about this topic. Perhaps you should sit it out.