Have other sides caught up tactically to geelong??

[Corn Cobbers]

thanks for actually addressing the thread contents.

I never said "way ahead" or assumed such a thing. You only need to be 5% ahead tactically to gain a massive advantage in terms of output. What i did state is we were in 2022 tactically ahead which i think is not largely disputable at this point.

In terms of the collingwood game, i actually rated collingwood as the second best team in the competition and always felt that game would determine who goes on to win the GF. I have alot of respect for collingwood and think Fly is an elite coach. I do think the crowd and nerves got geelong a little bit in that game early on, something i don't think would have been as evident in the GF had we met again, but it would have been a much more competitive outing than the sydney one.

Ok fair enough, agree with most of that, but I think you won on personnel rather than tactics.

Plenty of stars there for a long while but the missing ingredient was speed and that was rectified with the likes of Holmes and Close and a tweak from Scott to finally abandon the short passing game.

Agree that you would have flogged us in the GF, the QF was our best chance.

 

[Strange Cat]

Ok fair enough, agree with most of that, but I think you won on personnel rather than tactics.

Plenty of stars there for a long while but the missing ingredient was speed and that was rectified with the likes of Holmes and Close and a tweak from Scott to finally abandon the short passing game.

Agree that you would have flogged us in the GF, the QF was our best chance.

Disagree

Clearly the difference tactically between 22 and 21 team is night and day , yes the younger kids helped but we had a vastly different gameplay last year compared to other years.

 

[juss]

Early days, but from the limited exposure of new styles so far this pre season have sides adjusted the way they play to compete with the benchmark set in 2022 and go that next step further?? Or do you feel some clubs are lagging behind.

To put out my thoughts, I felt that geelong played a style of game that was entirely moving away from positional football in the literal sense to a full blown 18 man rolling ball movement and defensive structure. This started with our coaching structure being torn down and reinvented to replace the old system of defensive coach, midfield coach, forward coach, with a new innovative system of coaches based off specific game ideologies such as ball movement, stoppages, defensive structures, offensive transition etc that had the entire team train as one collective unit.

The result was a team which played collectively as a 18 man defensive group that also ran in waves up and down the field for fast effective transition like no other team was capable of in 2022.

We also went away from the concept of a star studded group of midfielders being plonked out around the ball for 80-90% of game time, and instead rotated 6-10 players around the ball to share the bash and crash load. Something sides like Melbourne and bulldogs did not do.

You could go into more detail, but this is the simple observations.

There hasn’t been a single game played yet. You can’t really ask or answer this question at all based on preseason games. Every team will be trying new things, it’ll be a while before we know which ones are working.

 

[Xtreme]

Geelong are going to create a proper dynasty and end up with a five-peat

Nobody can go with them!

 

[Toump Ass]

There’s normally an outlier every year. Who would have honestly predicted Melbourne to win the flag in 2021?

Me.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Geelong are going to create a proper dynasty and end up with a five-peat

Nobody can go with them!

This thread can be created any season by just inserting the premiers fro the prior season.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Disagree

Clearly the difference tactically between 22 and 21 team is night and day , yes the younger kids helped but we had a vastly different gameplay last year compared to other years.

It was different, but the gameplay in previous years was very poor, it took Scott a very long time to recognise slow play and short kicks don't work in finals.

The Cats went back to playing "normal" football last year and finally all that talent resulted in success.

I say this from the angle that you've got the best player in the competition in Cameron and plenty of very good players who can't even get a game, it's been the best list ever since Dangerfield came over but has underachieved due to terrible, stubborn tactics.

 

[Strange Cat]

It was different, but the gameplay in previous years was very poor, it took Scott a very long time to recognise slow play and short kicks don't work in finals.

The Cats went back to playing "normal" football last year and finally all that talent resulted in success.

I say this from the angle that you've got the best player in the competition in Cameron and plenty of very good players who can't even get a game, it's been the best list ever since Dangerfield came over but has underachieved due to terrible, stubborn tactics.

Disagree again

While there is some truth to the poor gameplan that didn’t stand up in finals in previous years , some years we just weren’t good enough and had far too many gaps in our list (rucks and small forward and another key forward …lack of midfield support for Joel for example et al)

Some years we just fell apart by finals with injuries …it’s a bit too simplistic to state that the side underachieved as there were a lot of different factors affecting the list outside of the clubs control rather than just finals tactics alone.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Disagree again

While there is some truth to the poor gameplan that didn’t stand up in finals in previous years , some years we just weren’t good enough and had far too many gaps in our list (rucks and small forward and another key forward …lack of midfield support for Joel for example et al)

Some years we just fell apart by finals with injuries …it’s a bit too simplistic to state that the side underachieved as there were a lot of different factors affecting the list outside of the clubs control rather than just finals tactics alone.

So when you had Ablett, Selwood and Danger, plus Stewart at one end and Hawkins at the other, you still had gaps in your list?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

We lost a GF by 5 points with Goldsack at FB and Mihocek at FF, how about THOSE gaps?

 

[Strange Cat]

So when you had Ablett, Selwood and Danger, plus Stewart at one end and Hawkins at the other, you still had gaps in your list?

Stanley took years for consistency, other years we didn’t even have a solid ruck

Joel went basically solo for a few years in the midfield and we had to move SJ into the middle which isolated Hawkins with more defenders ect

Ablett came back to us in his late 30’s while he was good he was nowhere near his prime

Really I could say 2013 up till Dawson getting injuried before the finals and 2020 being the only years you could say we had a legitimate chance and there were two strong teams in both of those years.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Stanley took years for consistency, other years we didn’t even have a solid ruck

Joel went basically solo for a few years in the midfield and we had to move SJ into the middle which isolated Hawkins with more defenders ect

Ablett came back to us in his late 30’s while he was good he was nowhere near his prime

Really I could say 2013 up till Dawson getting injuried before the finals and 2020 being the only years you could say we had a legitimate chance and there were two strong teams in both of those years.

Omg...

If Varcoe kicks that last goal in the 2013 prelim you win the flag, that was just bad luck.

No excuses in 2016, dreadful prelim effort.

After that you couldn't handle Melbourne and Richmond because their tactics were superior, nothing to do with personnel.

 

[Strange Cat]

Omg...

If Varcoe kicks that last goal in the 2013 prelim you win the flag, that was just bad luck.

No excuses in 2016, dreadful prelim effort.

After that you couldn't handle Melbourne and Richmond because their tactics were superior, nothing to do with personnel.

Never said that regarding the bolded , If you are going to be over aggressive in your responses there’s no point continuing it further

My main point is that saying the club underachieved is abit far fetched of a statement

 

[VinnieB]

Could be something as simple as which capable team utilises the new interchange system best.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Never said that regarding the bolded , If you are going to be over aggressive in your responses there’s no point continuing it further

My main point is that saying the club underachieved is abit far fetched of a statement

Not sure how that's overly aggressive but I'll leave you to it, the results back up my statements.

 

[Strange Cat]

Not sure how that's overly aggressive but I'll leave you to it, the results back up my statements.

One hand you’re saying other teams were more superior to us and then saying in the same breath that we underachieved

Quite the contradiction …I’ll just put you on ignore now

 

[Strange Cat]

Not sure how that's overly aggressive but I'll leave you to it, the results back up my statements.

You’re saying two different things : you’re saying that some teams were more superior (no arguments there) and then saying we underachieved (disagree strongly)

How can we underachieve if we are not the best team against the superior teams?

Quite the statement

 

[Corn Cobbers]

You’re saying two different things : you’re saying that some teams were more superior (no arguments there) and then saying we underachieved (disagree strongly)

How can we underachieve if we are not the best team against the superior teams?

Quite the statement

After that you couldn't handle Melbourne and Richmond because their tactics were superior, nothing to do with personnel.

 

[Osho]

I remember watching the Cats destroy Carlton at the MCG, walking home pretty confident noone was going to beat the Cats for the 22 flag. There was a full ground press that noone else was doing, and the extra leg speed of several players, some quite new ones, who would keep getting to contests all over the ground. The OP's observation that Cats seamed over the front middle back distinctions is pretty good.

The problem will be oppo going to school on it and the high level of analysis that all clubs carry out. The Pies for example had a style that troubled the cats, I think Swans and Freo will be better another year along, and the Dees have unfinished business. If the cats pull off B2B, something they couldn't do in their prime 10 or so years ago, then this team will have outdone that great team at least in one way.

 

[Strange Cat]

Again how can you state Geelong underachieved if other teams were more superior (regardless of what reasons you think makes them more superior)

You do understand that’s a contradiction right Corn Cobbers ?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Again how can you state Geelong underachieved if other teams were more superior (regardless of what reasons you think makes them more superior)

You do understand that’s a contradiction right Corn Cobbers ?

Can you actually read properly?

I said the other teams had superior TACTICS.

At all times Geelong since Danger returned have had the best list in the comp.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Don't even like them but the 2017-2020 Tigers would have absolutely steamrolled the 2022 Cats. Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

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16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

's greatest achievement was waiting out Dusty's mental health to finally get over that hurdle.

If he was the tactical genius OP is making him out to be, Dusty wouldn't have sharted all over the Catters every time they played each other for about 5 years straight.

Plus the Cats literally admitted to copying as much from the Tigers as possible in terms of ball movement and the roaming high half forwards. Hardly ahead of the pack...

 

[Strange Cat]

Can you actually read properly?

I said the other teams had superior TACTICS.

At all times Geelong since Danger returned have had the best list in the comp.

Yep that’s the aggressive behaviour I was expecting

And I explained that over the years we haven’t had the best list, and again your statement that Geelong unachieved contradicts your other statement that “Melbourne and tigers were more superior “ tactical or otherwise

You can’t underachieve if the other teams are more superior…

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Yep that’s the aggressive behaviour I was expecting

And I explained that over the years we haven’t had the best list, and again your statement that Geelong unachieved contradicts your other statement that “Melbourne and tigers were more superior “

You can’t underachieve if the other teams are more superior…

Geelong have had the superior list but have underperformed due to inferior tactics, is that clear enough? That's my opinion.

Your opinion is that Geelong had gaps in their list because they only had one elite forward instead of two, Stanley didn't break out until he was 32 and Ablett was not in Brownlow form anymore, I get it.

 

[Strange Cat]

Geelong have had the superior list but have underperformed due to inferior tactics, is that clear enough? That's my opinion.

Your opinion is that Geelong had gaps in their list because they only had one elite forward instead of two, Stanley didn't break out until he was 32 and Ablett was not in Brownlow form anymore, I get it.

I’m glad you finally do