Have the Crows lost their South Australian roots?

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marty36

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Aug 17, 2009
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You just have to look at the theoretical SA State of Origin side to know why we don't focus on SA talent


There are plenty running around in the league who you would have over some in the team

Grundy
Neale
Luko
Rankine
Wingard
Polec
Hayward
Burton

Just to name a few, who would you not have on your list to bring those in?
 

Flying_as_One1991

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There are plenty running around in the league who you would have over some in the team

Grundy
Neale
Luko
Rankine
Wingard
Polec
Hayward
Burton

Just to name a few, who would you not have on your list to bring those in?

You also have to be in a position to draft these kids. Who would you offer as a trade for anyone of them

Grundy = didn't have a first round pick due to the tippett saga (don't get me started on that)
Neale = Did make a mistake on this one but did draft 2 SA Boys ahead in Grigg and Nicholas Joyce.
Luko and Rankine = agreed disappointed we didn't go harder
Wingard = Didnt have a top 10 pick that year. (Overrated Hack)
Polec = Choose Port over us and didn't have a top 10 pick that year he was drafted (Drafted Brodie Smith with our first pick)
Hayward = 50/50 we drafted Galucci instead
Burton = Drafted Doedee instead. I would take Doedee.
 

spexau

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There are plenty running around in the league who you would have over some in the team

Grundy
Neale
Luko
Rankine
Wingard
Polec
Hayward
Burton

Just to name a few, who would you not have on your list to bring those in?
Oh I'd have them all. But the depth isn't there.
 

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marty36

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You also have to be in a position to draft these kids. Who would you offer as a trade for anyone of them

Grundy = didn't have a first round pick due to the tippett saga (don't get me started on that)
Neale = Did make a mistake on this one but did draft 2 SA Boys ahead in Grigg and Nicholas Joyce.
Luko and Rankine = agreed disappointed we didn't go harder
Wingard = Didnt have a top 10 pick that year. (Overrated Hack)
Polec = Choose Port over us and didn't have a top 10 pick that year he was drafted (Drafted Brodie Smith with our first pick)
Hayward = 50/50 we drafted Galucci instead
Burton = Drafted Doedee instead. I would take Doedee.


So you would rather

Harto
Murphy
Pohlkoke
Gooch
Mackay
JJ
Walker
Betts
Sloane
Lynch

In the team, or where you could have used trades to get Polec(when he was drafted) Wingard Luko Rankine Grundy and up yourself up the order exactly like Port did to get Rozee, using those players and existing picks

We are talking SA talent here, not whether we wont Vic talent or if its better or equivelant, everyone of those SA players mentioned will play 200 afl games, the vic talent may or may not go home and if staying will generally cost us more to keep the wolves at bay thus stuffing up the salary cap



you
 

mattymac

Why no midfield crowz?
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This is a debate which comes up all the time to draft SA boys over non SA boys. The fact is if you only draft SA kids your ignoring 75% of the draft every year.
Except that's not what is being said. No one is saying only draft SA lads. The thing west coast do well is they also prioritise trading WA lads back home.

Guys like Hill, Cripps, Barrass, Yeo, Jetta etc. None of them are out and out stars, but what you're doing is bringing stability and cohesion to your side and limiting the constant instability and salary cap pressure caused by players threatening to leave.

That's where we've been crap as a club. We had a huge focus on it in our early days as a club but have lost our way, whereas west coast have stayed true to that model and somehow they just seem to always be that bit more competitive than us when it matters.
 

mattymac

Why no midfield crowz?
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There are plenty running around in the league who you would have over some in the team

Grundy
Neale
Luko
Rankine
Wingard
Polec
Hayward
Burton

Just to name a few, who would you not have on your list to bring those in?
Francis. Could've got Francis for a rusty washer not long ago.
 

seanoff

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I dont think you need necessarily to draft SA players to be successful.

Take the best available or take specific needs. This year you probably should be targeting a fast outside mid first and then whatever else 2nd. If that fast outside mid is rated a little lower than another slowish inside mid who is projected 2 so be it. And trade.

I think a lot of the problem is the boys club image. Are players leaving because they’re not part of the gold pass club? There is a general feeling in the rest of the AFL that a clique runs the AFC and those outside the clique struggle. Whether that is to get a game or they feel sort of ostracised internally. Maybe that’s Gibbs problem, he’s not part of the club?

Blight was successful because he came in and slaughtered the sacred cows of the era. There appear to sacred cows up and down the organisation now. Maybe Pyke doesn’t have the power to take them on/ get rid of them.

I dont know. But Sydney and GWS seem to go ok without a huge number of locals. Brisbane on the way up with v few locals.

I think its something other than SA juniors.
 

marty36

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I dont think you need necessarily to draft SA players to be successful.

Take the best available or take specific needs. This year you probably should be targeting a fast outside mid first and then whatever else 2nd. If that fast outside mid is rated a little lower than another slowish inside mid who is projected 2 so be it. And trade.

I think a lot of the problem is the boys club image. Are players leaving because they’re not part of the gold pass club? There is a general feeling in the rest of the AFL that a clique runs the AFC and those outside the clique struggle. Whether that is to get a game or they feel sort of ostracised internally. Maybe that’s Gibbs problem, he’s not part of the club?

Blight was successful because he came in and slaughtered the sacred cows of the era. There appear to sacred cows up and down the organisation now. Maybe Pyke doesn’t have the power to take them on/ get rid of them.

I dont know. But Sydney and GWS seem to go ok without a huge number of locals. Brisbane on the way up with v few locals.

I think its something other than SA juniors.
The advantage you have is happy player being at home then the enormous advantage you have in retaining the player then the biggest advantage in the AFL less salary cap pressure

Its really A no brainer if you can get SA talent whether your trade for higher picks or just draft or trade in doesn't matter

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Flying_as_One1991

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The advantage you have is happy player being at home then the enormous advantage you have in retaining the player then the biggest advantage in the AFL less salary cap pressure

Its really A no brainer if you can get SA talent whether your trade for higher picks or just draft or trade in doesn't matter

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So Marty if we end up with pick 2/3 and pick 19/20 what would your plans be considering everything mentioned.
 

marty36

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So Marty if we end up with pick 2/3 and pick 19/20 what would your plans be considering everything mentioned.
Depends who is available in the draft or who we can convince to come home

There are plenty of options aren't there to name a few luko rankine Grundy Hayward maybe use existing players aswell

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Flying_as_One1991

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Depends who is available in the draft or who we can convince to come home

There are plenty of options aren't there to name a few luko rankine Grundy Hayward maybe use existing players aswell

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So how do we get these guys back to SA and what do we give up to get them?
 

Murray2503

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I read the article. It was a stupid article referencing the "kick a vic" stuff which is cringeworthy history. I think part of our p problem is that Ogilvie doesn't seem to give SA kids the correct weighting and seems intent to focus on Victorians. This strategy will never win a flag. We also seem to never get SA based players back or very rarely. We must target SA guns through the draft, trade and FA. I would like to see half our list made up of SA based players. Works for WCE.
 

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marty36

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I read the article. It was a stupid article referencing the "kick a vic" stuff which is cringeworthy history. I think part of our p problem is that Ogilvie doesn't seem to give SA kids the correct weighting and seems intent to focus on Victorians. This strategy will never win a flag. We also seem to never get SA based players back or very rarely. We must target SA guns through the draft, trade and FA. I would like to see half our list made up of SA based players. Works for WCE.
You go after top end SA talent mainly but as port showed you may need to aggressively trade for pics to get them at the draft

The recruitment manager needs to identify this talent then tell the club to move heaven and earth to get them like port did with rozzee

Its too costly to entice them back





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Rotayjay

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Once in a blue moon, SA talent appears in the draft, some other club inevitably drafts him, and we never get him back. We basically can't access the small pool of South Australian players.

The old days of punching above our population weight are long gone, as our share of the national population continues to shrink as well. Hell, the Electoral Commission even abolished a South Australian seat in parliament.
 
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It’s a good point re the U18’s.

Have always found it curious how strong we generally are at that level as a team.
I have a theory that our kids peak early. Eg James Aish anointed as a Pick 1 years out from his draft year.

Because our population is smaller it is easier to identify who the best players are. The players get identified early and are part of the state systems at 12 and unders level, Under 15s, Under 16s.

By the time they are getting towards draft age they have spent 5+ years in and around a high performance system. They are near their ceiling having trained and prepared in a near professional set up for years.

Whereas in Victoria for instance the talent is spread so far and wide that it takes longer to identify the best players. Diamonds in the rough.

They don't make it to the semi professional TAC Cup teams until they are 16 or 17 so have a lot more improvement in them than our guys.
 

marty36

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I have a theory that our kids peak early. Eg James Aish anointed as a Pick 1 years out from his draft year.

Because our population is smaller it is easier to identify who the best players are. The players get identified early and are part of the state systems at 12 and unders level, Under 15s, Under 16s.

By the time they are getting towards draft age they have spent 5+ years in and around a high performance system. They are near their ceiling having trained and prepared in a near professional set up for years.

Whereas in Victoria for instance the talent is spread so far and wide that it takes longer to identify the best players. Diamonds in the rough.

They don't make it to the semi professional TAC Cup teams until they are 16 or 17 so have a lot more improvement in them than our guys.
The AFL are pouring soooooo many millions into certain areas like NSW Vic QLD compared to WA and SA

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BunjiMC

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Aug 31, 2016
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Pyke has to go. He has lost the playing group and supporters.....question is who is out there that could and would take over?
 

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