Qld Have the National Party been hijacked by the far right?

[Socrates2]

The Nationals won't even look after their own farmers anymore. They scoff at Climate Change and go against all research and logic. They attack Farmers For Climate Action and support mass land clearing which increases salinity and releases more carbon.They have successfully destroyed the Murray Darling river system and now they want to fight vegans and the unemployed. Who do they represent exactly? No wonder the Shooters and Fishers party stole their votes.
Here's the latest Pythonesque contribution from their formally homophobic leader.

Nationals back welfare system expansion and crackdown on vegan 'milk'
Party wants non-animal milks and meats to undergo a labelling change as it pushes for national rollout of cashless debit card.

Is this how it is with the Nationals. Can i say that Cows milk is designed for calves not humans so if they want to change Almond Milk to Almond Water they should also change Milk to Calves Milk.

 

[Gough]

If I was them I'd sure as hell be trying to. Socially conservative in the first place, small branches, easy to stack and a representation in Canberra that far outweighs their proportion of the vote nationally. Ripe the picking I'd say.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Been Liberal with a coat of country paint for so long. Imagine the brighter voters gave up as mining donations overtook farming donations.

 

[Deliverance]

Just have to look at their major donors. All mining and big city businesses. They are clearly not there for agribusiness at all, but somehow mange to pull the wool over the eyes of rural voters. I could understand voting for them if you work in the mining industry, but beyond that, it's got me baffled.

 

[Not Important]

conservatives don't stack parties we all know that.

liked them better when they were the country party.

you have to hand it to 'em, they are electorally a 'rump' party yet the wield so much power in right wing circles.

 

[Caesar]

Just have to look at their major donors. All mining and big city businesses.

I wouldn’t say that. There are a lot of big agribusinesses amongst the Nationals’ top donors, although they certainly get some big contributions from miners as well.

That said, disclosure rules around political donations in Australia are so piss-poor that I’m unwilling to draw too many conclusions about any party’s publically-available list.

 

[Deliverance]

I wouldn’t say that. There are a lot of big agribusinesses amongst the Nationals’ top donors, although they certainly get some big contributions from miners as well.

That said, disclosure rules around political donations in Australia are so piss-poor that I’m unwilling to draw too many conclusions about any party’s publically-available list.

Even the agribusiness donors are city based or international traders. Profiting from farmers? Yes. Benefiting farmers, not so much

Yeah I'd be surprised if even 40% of donations are public knowledge.

 

[Caesar]

Even the agribusiness donors are city based or international traders. Profiting from farmers? Yes. Benefiting farmers, not so much

That’s more a function of the fact that the biggest donors are always going to be the biggest businesses.

Small, regional businesses make small, regional donations.

 

[Deliverance]

That’s more a function of the fact that the biggest donors are always going to be the biggest businesses.

Small, regional businesses make small, regional donations.

Yeah, that's kind what I was getting at originally, big city business own the NP. Nationals MPs work for the big businesses, not their rural constituents. But they've got their voter base convinced otherwise somehow. NP are the Billy Flynn of the political world.

 

[Caesar]

Yeah, that's kind what I was getting at originally, big city business own the NP. Nationals MPs work for the big businesses, not their rural constituents.

I think that is flawed logic. Any rural business of any substantial size is going to have city operations, because that is where the markets and distribution channels are. That doesn’t mean they magically cease to be rural businesses that have a stake in rural people and rural interests.

That’s not to say I think the Nationals are short on problems with donations, but it’s bootstrapping to say that if a rural business is big enough to be a major donor then it’s not a rural business.

 

[Deliverance]

I think that is flawed logic. Any rural business of any substantial size is going to have city operations, because that is where the markets and distribution channels are. That doesn’t mean they magically cease to be rural businesses that have a stake in rural people and rural interests.

That’s not to say I think the Nationals are short on problems with donations, but it’s bootstrapping to say that if a rural business is big enough to be a major donor then it’s not a rural business.

If head office is in the city, then it's a city business. Money goes from the rural buyers to the business owners in the city..

 

[Caesar]

If head office is in the city, then it's a city business. Money goes from the rural buyers to the business owners in the city..

Firstly, just because a business has its head office in the city doesn’t mean the owners are city people. One of the biggest Nationals donors is Manildra Group, who has their head office in Sydney but is owned by the Honan family who are still fundamentally based in central west NSW.

Secondly, even if ownership is city based, profits are only a small fraction of the money generated by a business. If the operations are rural-based the majority of the generated economic activity is in rural areas. Very few people would regard Elders as a city business.

 

[Deliverance]

Mark Allison elders CEO:

"I say to the analysts we shouldn't be thought of as an agricultural stock," he said

Elders is responsible to it shareholders and turning profits from it mostly rural customers. And he collects $1.7 million a year for doing that.
Multinational agribusiness are not in it for the benefit of rural people. They're in it for the benefit of the suits in the city. Just like the Nats

 

[Caesar]

Multinational agribusiness are not in it for the benefit of rural people. They're in it for the benefit of the suits in the city. Just like the Nats

That is nonsense logic.

Of course all businesses are primarily responsible to their shareholders. That does not mean that the shareholders are the only ones who benefit, or have an interest in them succeeding.

 

[Deliverance]

That is nonsense logic.

Of course all businesses are primarily responsible to their shareholders. That does not mean that the shareholders are the only ones who benefit, or have an interest in them succeeding.

Elders doesn't care who does or doesn't benefit from their success in rural regions. As long as enough of the wealth gets funnelled back to the suits in the city. Which most of it does.
Rural people survived decades without multinational agribusiness. Not vice versa.

 

[Caesar]

Elders doesn't care who does or doesn't benefit from their success in rural regions.

What Elders cares about is irrelevant to the extent to which their interests are aligned with those of rural people.

 

[Deliverance]

What Elders cares about is irrelevant to the extent to which their interests are aligned with those of rural people.

Yes it does, because millions are coming out of rural areas in to the pockets of merchant bankers. Ie the NPs mates. Plenty of nice mansions in the city being made off the back of the farmers

Regardless, the majority of NP funding comes from mining conglomerates who destroy the environment, harming farmers and promoting environmental conditions that increase bushfire risk.

How the rural voters can't see how the NP has become a city party is beyond me.

 

[Caesar]

How the rural voters can't see how the NP has become a city party is beyond me.

You talk like a Melbournite.

 

[Deliverance]

You talk like a Melbournite.

Yep, and I see the mansions and Ferraris in Toorak. These guys aren't farmers. They're merchant bankers, M&A specialists, fund managers and corporate lawyers who work for the companies that run the LNP.
Like most other city folk though, I'll donate a couple of times a year when my kids school, local church or rotary group runs a farmers relief fundraiser. Send some of those dollars back to the bush.

 

[Caesar]

Yep, and I see the mansions and Ferraris in Toorak. These guys aren't farmers. They're merchant bankers, M&A specialists, fund managers and corporate lawyers who work for the companies that run the LNP.
Like most other city folk though, I'll donate a couple of times a year when my kids school, local church or rotary group runs a farmers relief fundraiser. Send some of those dollars back to the bush.

Good on you. Why not take it a step further? Strap on those shiny shoes, head out to Mallee, and tell those bumpkins how they should be voting.

 

[Deliverance]

Good on you. Why not take it a step further? Strap on those shiny shoes, head out to Mallee, and tell those bumpkins how they should be voting.

Haha, nope, I don't wear shiny shoes in my line of work.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What Elders cares about is irrelevant to the extent to which their interests are aligned with those of rural people.

The interests of a capitalist are almost always with the generation of more profit, not with those of any community, rural or urban. What do Elders care if the farmers they supply with fertiliser take a hit to their profit margins from higher fertiliser prices, so long as they stay in business and keep buying from Elders? What does their real estate arm care for the affordability of rural land so long as people keep buying it? I agree that they can't really be called an urban business, and that their interests have little to do with alignment to rural people either.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yes it does, because millions are coming out of rural areas in to the pockets of merchant bankers. Ie the NPs mates. Plenty of nice mansions in the city being made off the back of the farmers

Economics isn't a zero sum game, except when profit margins are changing without the underlying cost changing. A rising tide in agribusiness can lift all boats, farmer and banker alike. The bankers doing well may mean farmers are losing out, but not necessarily.

How the rural voters can't see how the NP has become a city party is beyond me.

It feels like you're conflating the city/country divide with the corporation/worker divide. Capitalists are capitalists, where they live is largely irrelevant, they all act similarly.

 

[Gethelred]

You talk like a Melbournite.

You from the country, Caesar?

 

[Caesar]

You from the country, Caesar?

No, but most of my family are and I do a lot of work in rural areas.