Have The Saints made a coaching mistake?

blueskies

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Just wanted to get your feedback Saints fans.

You guys made the finals three years running under Thomas. Then you sacked him.

Now you are 4-7 and below Carlton on the ladder.

I know you have had plenty of injuries, but I would argue your biggest problem is your game plan (ie: your coach).

Our three best players are Fevola, Kouta and Stevens. Fev has kicked just 3 goals in the past 2 games, Kouta has had limited game time, and Stevens is out... and yet we have played our best football for 5 years during the past two weeks. I know Fev has drawn the best defender, but players like Fisher and Waite are thriving mainly because we are playing attacking footy.

So my arguement is missing key players is not everything.

I have watched St.Kilda a few times lately, and have not liked their style of footy at all. I think it is ultra defensive and the players don't know what to do. I look at you guys and I see us last year, clueless, lacking direction. You kept going sideways and backwards the other night. You have some of the game's best marking forwards in Gherig, Riewoldt and Kosi, and yet you don't go long to them and play to their strength. But under Thomas you did. Under Thomas you played attacking footy and you used to blow teams out of the water. Now you look indecisive, timid and pretty darn ordinary to be honest.

Look what happened when you went direct in the last quarter, you looked heaps better.

This week you had Maxy back, you had all your gun forwards except Hamill who let's face it doesn't count these days cause he's always out, and you had most of your elite mids (Ball, Delsanto and Hayes, as well as Baker). I put it to you you had plenty of your best players and yet still looked indecisive, timid, lacking in direction.

Have you made a big blunder in getting rid of Thomas, who had you playing attacking footy and had the respect of the playing group?

Not trying to troll or anything, rather am sincerely interested to hear what Saints fans think of their current predicament.

I really think you have enough of your best players on the park to be doing better than what you are and I blame the game plan first and foremost for your being 4-7 (mind you I also think you lack a hard, quick running ball carrier with skill).

Goose is ok but as an obective poster I would not call him elite not even close to elite, and as good as Goddard is he lacks pace. I also wouldn't call Xav Clarke elite, no way. I mean having Goose out doesn't impact that greatly on your mids going long to your forwards.
 

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The Punter

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#2
I'll bite.

I'm not certain that we could have won a flag under Grant Thomas. We may win one under Ross Lyon. But the truth is we are further away from winning one than we were at this time last year.

Injuries were no excuse on Sunday. We played poorly in a match that was very winnable. Riewoldt looked disinterested at times, the forwards didn't move nearly enough. How Brad Howard played before Xavier Clarke or Clinton Jones is beyond me. If neither were fit, then they shouldn't have been named in the 25.

Sam Fisher played really well in the second half, but looked lost following Shannon Grant around the ground on the ball in the first half. Meanwhile Sam Gilbert was wasted deep in the back 50 and James Gwilt again had to battle against someone much bigger. Having said all that, the backline wasn't really to blame on Sunday. To put it simply, St Kilda should win when conceding only 11 goals.
 

Monika72

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#4
Too early to tell at this stage. i will wait till round 8 in 2008. The coach they should be looking for is a forward coach. I can't beleive that we struggle to kick more than 10 goals a game. We need a new forward coach.
 

blueskies

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It has nothing to do with forward coaches. The problem is how you move the ball up the ground and into your forwardline. You go sideways, backwards. You have no idea. You are the lowest scoring side this year as a result.
 

johnnyhoward

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#6
The injuries excuse is not the biggest reason for our failure but there's no doubt it's affected us throughout the past few years. The problem is it continued to affect us at crucial times (even last year's EF, sure we were no chance for the flag last year but we should have won that game; 2005 PF with our defence decimated).

I didn't want to see GT leave at the end of last year, I thought he'd have at least another year - he was pushed by Rod though, which is unfortunate for the club. That said, most people hated GT and said he was the worst coach in history etc. While his tactics occasionally came into question, for the most part he was good and got us to 2 prelims. People aren't so critical of Thomas in hindsight.

Lyon has just started out and while he only knows how to coach the Sydney way, I don't like watching our current game style when we kick 6 goals a match. However, at times this year we have looked good, smashing a few teams along the way. After all Thomas had done nothing wrong, or maybe it was a proactive decision and Lyon has got the team on a downward spiral.
 

augie

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#7
I can't understand the way that Koschitzke is being used. IMO he is one of the best players in the comp but is being used as spare parts. He is the kind of bloke that you can build a team around.

So where should he be playing? I like the thought of building your defence around him as CHB.
 

bubblegoose

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#9
It has nothing to do with forward coaches. The problem is how you move the ball up the ground and into your forwardline. You go sideways, backwards. You have no idea. You are the lowest scoring side this year as a result.
They do that because it seems the team is about possession football. Also, if you're down a bit on confidence in your team mates, you won't kick to a contest.

However, our forwards are missing a HELL of a lot of easy goals. When the guys further up the ground kill themselves to get the ball down to the forwards and they miss a goal - or it just gets swept easily out of our forward line, thats gotta affect morale.
 

St DAC

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#10
I can't understand the way that Koschitzke is being used. IMO he is one of the best players in the comp but is being used as spare parts. He is the kind of bloke that you can build a team around.

So where should he be playing? I like the thought of building your defence around him as CHB.
Kosi is best used as a follower/forward pocket. He's not quick enough anymore for CHB (and CHF's these days are far more mobile than they used to be, even a few years ago) and is a great 3rd tall forward. His around the ground work is pretty good, only hitouts are a problem because in ruck terms he's not that tall.
 

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della

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#12
a reason, um look at Blights record and looks at Thomas's record, um thats a pretty good reason, u can't be serious any stkilda fan and say Thomad did good for this club, he's set the club back more then any individual i have seen ever, it's a bloody shame on what he did to the Saints and how there big chance to create something was never going to happen whilst he was there in control of 100 diff things

Blight vs Thomas, m8 this is not a circus this is real football, Thomas hope u r happy with what u did, putting the clubs interest 1st, m8 the only interest u should be worried about is the money u owe that dik hea d Butters
 

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#13
a reason, um look at Blights record and looks at Thomas's record, um thats a pretty good reason, u can't be serious any stkilda fan and say Thomad did good for this club, he's set the club back more then any individual i have seen ever, it's a bloody shame on what he did to the Saints and how there big chance to create something was never going to happen whilst he was there in control of 100 diff things

Blight vs Thomas, m8 this is not a circus this is real football, Thomas hope u r happy with what u did, putting the clubs interest 1st, m8 the only interest u should be worried about is the money u owe that dik hea d Butters
What Malcolm Blight did at St Kilda was prove that you can't coach a Melbourne team from the Gold Coast. There's nothing else to learn about his time at the Saints. Nothing else to discuss.
 

sauce_head

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#14
a reason, um look at Blights record and looks at Thomas's record, um thats a pretty good reason, u can't be serious any stkilda fan and say Thomad did good for this club, he's set the club back more then any individual i have seen ever, it's a bloody shame on what he did to the Saints and how there big chance to create something was never going to happen whilst he was there in control of 100 diff things

Blight vs Thomas, m8 this is not a circus this is real football, Thomas hope u r happy with what u did, putting the clubs interest 1st, m8 the only interest u should be worried about is the money u owe that dik hea d Butters
I am really struggling to read your text, but you make a good point regarding overall careers.

But in this instance, Blight was just not interested in investing his time in the club. It was a hard decision to sack Blight, but a correct one. Especailly after having appointed Watson, untried. We went away from popular press and towards what we thought was correct. That took guts.

Time will tell on Thomas. I was not a hunge fan, but he did do well. I do not like what he is doing now (dependent on how much one believes). Perhaps doing everything was the best way to help out a club that was struggling financially? But give him his due, he was a better option based on Blights five games and his attitude.
 

della

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#15
he would coach better from the gold coast then thomas could being at the club, i agree no comparison and thomas u stuffed things up kniving one of the great coaches of the last 2-3 decades, yeah Thomas great job m8, blighty is a hack
 

della

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#17
Trust me blight didnt haVE MUCH TO WORK WITH EARLY, ALOT OF INJURIES ETC, remember when Thomas took over they were getting belted by a fair bit, i just feel when Blight eventually in his 2nd yr saw the promising younsters and what they could achieve he would of got the success they deserved unlike Thomas was able to achieve and thats just what i believe, Blighty was the best loser at times but when he saw genuine talent and a chance at success well his record speaks for itself!
 

sauce_head

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#18
Trust me blight didnt haVE MUCH TO WORK WITH EARLY, ALOT OF INJURIES ETC, remember when Thomas took over they were getting belted by a fair bit, i just feel when Blight eventually in his 2nd yr saw the promising younsters and what they could achieve he would of got the success they deserved unlike Thomas was able to achieve and thats just what i believe, Blighty was the best loser at times but when he saw genuine talent and a chance at success well his record speaks for itself!
Fine. If that is what you believe, but it is a fact he was not willing to put time in in Melbourne with the players. The board took the decision you should live for the club if you want to be involved.

Judge on the decision to sack him at the time, not on what you propose may have happened.
 
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#19
Why do carlton supporters bring in their side whenever a topic about st kilda is discussed? Jealous much?
Right on diddy! Blueskies piss off back to the carlton rubble don't jump in and sink the boot into a side that is currently down! With a list like the saints fit and firing your carlton mob wouldn't give a yelp! I can't fully remember but if you could remind me, how well did the blues do against the saints earlier this year mate!:D All saints supporters keep the faith in Ross Lyon he will deliver something that Grant Thomas never would of a Premiership!:thumbsu:
 

starkravenmad2

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#20
Thomas may have not been a top knotch coach but he did have the ability to get players to belive and follow him...which some coaches lack the ability to do
I may be wrong but watching the saints last week , I wonder about Kosi,G-train and roo when things aint going right for them and wether we may have over rated them
 

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#21
Why do carlton supporters bring in their side whenever a topic about st kilda is discussed? Jealous much?
They yearn for the days when we owed them money and they refused to take 22.5 cents in the dollar. They're f##cked, they know it, but they still can't quite believe it.
 
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#22
I believe we should have kept a St.Kilda connection amongst the coaching staff. Mistake to get rid of Jason Cripps. And I would have liked Nathan Burke to be welcomed back.
 

m.diddy

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#23
Trust me blight didnt haVE MUCH TO WORK WITH EARLY, ALOT OF INJURIES ETC, remember when Thomas took over they were getting belted by a fair bit, i just feel when Blight eventually in his 2nd yr saw the promising younsters and what they could achieve he would of got the success they deserved unlike Thomas was able to achieve and thats just what i believe, Blighty was the best loser at times but when he saw genuine talent and a chance at success well his record speaks for itself!
Don't pass comment on the blight issue when you clearly don't undersand why he was sacked. It wasn't about the on-field performances that got him sacked solely. There were a lot of off-field issues.
 

della

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#24
i am sure there were alot of off field issues just like there was when blighty was at Geel and Adel, look at some of the stunts he did during those times, the stories r legendery but thats the way he was, very diff and a man who got good results even if he was a little diff, if u guys had dome some kind of research instead of jut opening the cheque book u would of known this, Thomas the man who stabbed Blighty in the back for his own persona agenda and look where it got the club, the worst coach ever, the most self obcessed man ever, a man who owes money, a man who puyt his own ego ahead of the club, players and supporters has sent this club back to the dark days and it will take a very long time b4 it recovers!

thanks for the memories Thomas!
 

sauce_head

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#25
i am sure there were alot of off field issues just like there was when blighty was at Geel and Adel, look at some of the stunts he did during those times, the stories r legendery but thats the way he was, very diff and a man who got good results even if he was a little diff, if u guys had dome some kind of research instead of jut opening the cheque book u would of known this, Thomas the man who stabbed Blighty in the back for his own persona agenda and look where it got the club, the worst coach ever, the most self obcessed man ever, a man who owes money, a man who puyt his own ego ahead of the club, players and supporters has sent this club back to the dark days and it will take a very long time b4 it recovers!

thanks for the memories Thomas!
I guess you are right. You would have done more research than the board, who gave a one million dollar contract. Go to the corner, pull your pants down, call your mum and give yourself an upper cut. You have made your point, badly, and are no longer required in this forum. You have now made us all stupider, and all the worse for my appropriate sledge.

I will respond to you no more, so feel free to have "the last say". You are Caroline Wilson.
 
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