Have the Storm cracked the Melbourne market

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weewilly

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Brisbane is the only city this year that has shown positive ratings growth. While you're right, we are fairweather, the AFL should also take this as a positive. This tells us that Queensland is far more receptive than NSW in terms of AFL growth. A strong Brisbane team will mean a strong support from Queensland towards this game. A strong Sydney team won't mean the same thing. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, the Sydney and Lions match both aired on FTA and more people watched in Brisbane despite its much smaller population. I'm not sure if AFL will ever crack the Sydney market, but they do have a better chance at cracking the Brisbane/Queensland market.
A bit like the Storm RL team in Melbourne they will NEVER crack the Victorian market no matter how hard they try and will remain just a novelty!
 

Cmarsh

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A bit like the Storm RL team in Melbourne they will NEVER crack the Victorian market no matter how hard they try and will remain just a novelty!
Depends how you define "crack".

If you mean dominate the market then clearly a team from a non-traditional sport in that area is pushing uphill.

But if "crack" is defined as getting consistent crowds and getting consistent media coverage than I think you could argue the Storm have cracked the Melbourne market and are more than just a novelty.
 

The_Wookie

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Depends how you define "crack".

If you mean dominate the market then clearly a team from a non-traditional sport in that area is pushing uphill.

But if "crack" is defined as getting consistent crowds and getting consistent media coverage than I think you could argue the Storm have cracked the Melbourne market and are more than just a novelty.
members, ratings and crowds show this to be pretty much true - theyve certainly cracked the market.
 

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weewilly

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members, ratings and crowds show this to be pretty much true - theyve certainly cracked the market.
The crowds they get in a 5 million city are nothing special esp with the success they have enjoyed over the years and massive support from Murdoch's Heraldsun unlike in Sydney where both the Swans and GWS get very little coverage in any of the NSW papers and how are all those local Victorian players going?

The Swans in Sydney are way ahead of the Storm on both counts breeding their own local NSW players and getting consistent big crowds at the SCG in fact more that either the RL or RU clubs get!
 

The_Wookie

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The crowds they get in a 5 million city are nothing special esp with the success they have enjoyed over the years and massive support from Murdoch's Heraldsun unlike in Sydney where both the Swans and GWS get very little coverage in any of the NSW papers and how are all those local Victorian players going?

The Swans in Sydney are way ahead of the Storm on both counts breeding their own local NSW players and getting consistent big crowds at the SCG in fact more that either the RL or RU clubs get!
You dont have to dominate to crack the market. The Swans have got a 20 year headstart on the storm - 120 years if you consider they were relocated from Melbourne. Swans get guaranteed FTA tv coverage, the Storm get very little FTA coverage and its ratings are generally better than the Swans in Sydney when they do.
 

NoobPie

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You dont have to dominate to crack the market. The Swans have got a 20 year headstart on the storm - 120 years if you consider they were relocated from Melbourne. Swans get guaranteed FTA tv coverage, the Storm get very little FTA coverage and its ratings are generally better than the Swans in Sydney when they do.
I agree that the storm have a niche support in Melbourne but This is patently untrue.

The storm have got "decent" numbers on the main channel before the AFL season started this year and in the pre finals bye round last year. More generally the storm on a Thursday or Friday night in Melbourne are just as likely to get beaten by the AFL in Sydney even without the swans playing.

If the storm were on FTA at 145 on a Saturday they would get A League numbers in melbourne

Also, the swans pre sydney history is surely irrelevant to their Sydney support.
 

weewilly

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All due respect, local NSW players have been coming from the Riverina, Albury etc for decades. The Swans have been in Sydney since 1982 so have they have invested in the games development for near 40 years.

Newspaper coverage is one thing but being on TV helps. :)

Maybe in Melbourne their aren't enough Pacific island big boys coming through the system for the Storm.? ;)

Anyway, all just for discussion purposes. :)
Yeah May be the NRL should change their name to the Pacific islander League!
 

madmug

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Been here 12 years now, footy has grown massively in that time here at grassroots (especially women and juniors) and just in general interest, even prior to the recent Lions resurgence. There are also a lot of people here who don't follow the Lions. A lot of expats or people who have chosen to follow teams other than the Lions, VFL was beamed live into QLD in the 70s & 80s I've been told. Quite common among my social group. No doubt there will be ebbs and flows as the Lions are good and bad, but footy is very healthy here.
I lived in SEQ in the late 70's early 80's. The then QAFL & even moreso in the Gold Coast football league were sustained by 'Mexicans' coming up from Vic & Tas to live, &/or play footy.

Clearly those people, from the 1960's onwards, influenced the health & development of Aussie Rules in Qld more than anything that ever happened in Sydney until the move of South to North. (Swans that is ;)).
 

The_Wookie

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I agree that the storm have a niche support in Melbourne but This is patently untrue.
Well lets see what the data says.

The storm have got "decent" numbers on the main channel before the AFL season started this year and in the pre finals bye round last year. More generally the storm on a Thursday or Friday night in Melbourne are just as likely to get beaten by the AFL in Sydney even without the swans playing.
the data doesnt say that at all.

Sydney AFL average on Thursday and Friday last year was 30,000 - all teams included.
Without the Swans, the average AFL rating was 29,000
The Swans averaged 40,000 from their 4 matches on Thursday/Friday last year.

The Storm had 5 matches on FTA on Thursday/Friday last year - average rating in Melbourne on FTA was 45,000 - this is better than the overall average rating for the AFL on Thursday and Friday in Sydney, and better than the Swans stand alone ratings in those timeslots.

And doesnt include the fact that the Storms Fox ratings are much better - the Storm were the most watched team of any code on Fox last year.

If the storm were on FTA at 145 on a Saturday they would get A League numbers in melbourne.
The NRL doesnt have matches at 1.45 on a Saturday.

Also, the swans pre sydney history is surely irrelevant to their Sydney support.
Maybe, but its part of their history, and having a latent support base should have made it easier for them than starting from scratch.
 
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youneverknow22

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Well lets see what the data says.



the data doesnt say that at all.

Sydney AFL average on Thursday and Friday last year was 30,000 - all teams included.
Without the Swans, the average AFL rating was 29,000
The Swans averaged 40,000 from their 4 matches on Thursday/Friday last year.

The Storm had 5 matches on FTA on Thursday/Friday last year - average rating in Melbourne on FTA was 45,000 - this is better than the overall average rating for the AFL on Thursday and Friday in Sydney, and better than the Swans stand alone ratings in those timeslots.

And doesnt include the fact that the Storms Fox ratings are much better - the Storm were the most watched team of any code on Fox last year.



The NRL doesnt have matches at 1.45 on a Saturday.



Maybe, but its part of their history, and having a latent support base should have made it easier for them than starting from scratch.
The problem with those numbers are storm only rated 20k last friday night in Melbourne. I think a storm game did 71k earlier this year on the main channel, but the point remains that the storm doesn't rate when an AFL game is competing. The Swans did 39k yesterday (which is basically 2x the storm figure) and there was a competiting NRL game on at the time. Head to head, Swans wins every day of the week
 

NoobPie

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Well lets see what the data says.



the data doesnt say that at all.

Sydney AFL average on Thursday and Friday last year was 30,000 - all teams included.
Without the Swans, the average AFL rating was 29,000
The Swans averaged 40,000 from their 4 matches on Thursday/Friday last year.

The Storm had 5 matches on FTA on Thursday/Friday last year - average rating in Melbourne on FTA was 45,000 - this is better than the overall average rating for the AFL on Thursday and Friday in Sydney, and better than the Swans stand alone ratings in those timeslots.

And doesnt include the fact that the Storms Fox ratings are much better - the Storm were the most watched team of any code on Fox last year.



The NRL doesnt have matches at 1.45 on a Saturday.



Maybe, but its part of their history, and having a latent support base should have made it easier for them than starting from scratch.



What does the data say in relation to the actual point I made?

The storm have got "decent" numbers on the main channel before the AFL season started this year and in the pre finals bye round last year. More generally the storm on a Thursday or Friday night in Melbourne are just as likely to get beaten by the AFL in Sydney even without the swans playing.
I.e, what was the Storm's average when the AFL was on?

The Rabbitohs game on the week before the AFL restarted got 96K. Take that out and you have 32K average....but then there was also a game against the eels on August 20 with no AFL game on. I betcha you take that out and I betcha you end up with an average under 29K

Ultimately, as you know too well as you have all the data in front of you, the Storm rarely get out the 20ks in Melbourne when up against the AFL.
 

NoobPie

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The problem with those numbers are storm only rated 20k last friday night in Melbourne. I think a storm game did 71k earlier this year on the main channel, but the point remains that the storm doesn't rate when an AFL game is competing. The Swans did 39k yesterday (which is basically 2x the storm figure) and there was a competiting NRL game on at the time. Head to head, Swans wins every day of the week

Thankyou, this is precisely my point.

A lot of AFL fans would say they support the storm but would watch north gold coast ahead of a storm grand final replay
 

The_Wookie

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What does the data say in relation to the actual point I made?

I.e, what was the Storm's average when the AFL was on?
I dont generally rely on one or two matches to make a point about a teams penetration into a given city. Proves how it rates against the AFL - in Melbourne like its some sort of surprise, not how its traveling as a team.

The Rabbitohs game on the week before the AFL restarted got 96K. Take that out and you have 32K average....but then there was also a game against the eels on August 20 with no AFL game on. I betcha you take that out and I betcha you end up with an average under 29K
I bet you can cherry pick all sorts of times and days to get the results you are after too. Doesnt take into account Foxtel or the NRLs overall decline in FTA ratings which have been mirrored by the uptake in Foxtel audiences.

Ultimately, as you know too well as you have all the data in front of you, the Storm rarely get out the 20ks in Melbourne when up against the AFL.
Yes tell me more about the data i have in front of me.

The problem with those numbers are storm only rated 20k last friday night in Melbourne. I think a storm game did 71k earlier this year on the main channel, but the point remains that the storm doesn't rate when an AFL game is competing. The Swans did 39k yesterday (which is basically 2x the storm figure) and there was a competiting NRL game on at the time. Head to head, Swans wins every day of the week
There wasnt a competing NRL game yesterday. The Swans played at 1.45pm. There was no NRL game on yesterday until 5.15pm. Its not really head to head if the other head doesnt exist is it? And the NRL isnt on FTA on a Saturday in any case.

Half the Swans games last season werent competing with a FTA NRL broadcast game.
 
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NoobPie

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I dont generally rely on one or two matches to make a point about a teams penetration into a given city.
That's precisely what you have done though. I made a general claim "the storm rarely get out of the 20s in Melbourne when against the AFL"

and

"THe storm rate less than non Sydney AFL games in Sydney more often than not"

Both claims are specific and correct


Proves how it rates against the AFL - in Melbourne like its some sort of surprise, not how its traveling as a team.
It is the exact point / claim you are responding to though.

"the storm rarely get out of the 20s in Melbourne when against the AFL"

and

"THe storm rate less than non Sydney AFL games in Sydney more often than not"

I bet you can cherry pick all sorts of times and days to get the results you are after too. Doesnt take into account Foxtel or the NRLs overall decline in FTA ratings which have been mirrored by the uptake in Foxtel audiences.
I've made a clear specific claim. You are wrong and have too much pride to admit it and are now grasping


Yes tell me more about the data i have in front of me.
It demonstrates the Storm almost never get out of the 20s in Melbourne on FTA when up against the AFL
 

The_Wookie

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That's precisely what you have done though. I made a general claim "the storm rarely get out of the 20s in Melbourne when against the AFL"
33% isnt rarely. And thats last season

"THe storm rate less than non Sydney AFL games in Sydney more often than not"
And this is absolutely false.

I've made a clear specific claim.
You literally are claiming a conclusion from 5 matches at this point.

You are wrong and have too much pride to admit it and are now grasping
whatever you say.
 
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NoobPie

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33% isnt rarely. And thats last season
Let me guess, that's one game?

Is that one game that got into the 30ks or one game that beat the generic AFL game?

Which gmae was that so I can cross check


And this is absolutely false.
It's absolutely true. You could easily demonstrate otherwise. Or you need to provide for, say, the last 5 years all storms Melbourne ratings for Thursday and Friday night games.

If you do not that I will show you that for each of the ones which were up against an AFL game

1. Barely any of these would have got into the 20s
2. The AFL game would more often than not have rated higher in Sydney than the storm in melbourne

You literally are claiming a conclusion from 5 matches at this point

As you would be aware, I would not be able to locate any storm Melbourne ratings that weren't on the main channel. You have this data handy.

The irony is you are the one that has used a skewed sample of 5 games with and are the only one that has the data available to them.

Again, you give me the storm ratings for the last 5 years in Melbourne and I'll happily show you it generally rates worse than the AFL in Sydney....and far worse than the swans in Sydney

Of course you won't will you?
 

The_Wookie

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Let me guess, that's one game?

Is that one game that got into the 30ks or one game that beat the generic AFL game?

Which gmae was that so I can cross check
You keep telling me what data I have, you find it. Im in no mood to do sh*t for you.



It's absolutely true. You could easily demonstrate otherwise. Or you need to provide for, say, the last 5 years all storms Melbourne ratings for Thursday and Friday night games.
I dont need to do anything for you. and frankly, you dont deserve a response.

If you do not that I will show you that for each of the ones which were up against an AFL game

1. Barely any of these would have got into the 20s
2. The AFL game would more often than not have rated higher in Sydney than the storm in melbourne
I cant wait for you to show me.


As you would be aware, I would not be able to locate any storm Melbourne ratings that weren't on the main channel. You have this data handy.
And yet Im wrong based on what...feelings?

The irony is you are the one that has used a skewed sample of 5 games with and are the only one that has the data available to them.
Then how the hell can you even make the call that Im skewing anything? You literally are arguing with the only person with the data.

Again, you give me the storm ratings for the last 5 years in Melbourne and I'll happily show you it generally rates worse than the AFL in Sydney....and far worse than the swans in Sydney

Of course you won't will you?
Why the fu** would i give you anything now?
 

NoobPie

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You keep telling me what data I have, you find it. Im in no mood to do sh*t for you.





I dont need to do anything for you. and frankly, you dont deserve a response.



I cant wait for you to show me.




And yet Im wrong based on what...feelings?



Then how the hell can you even make the call that Im skewing anything? You literally are arguing with the only person with the data.



Why the fu** would i give you anything now?
You won't because you are wrong

If you weren't wrong you'd happily provide me the data
 

The_Wookie

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You won't because you are wrong

If you weren't wrong you'd happily provide me the data
Im not here to post for your entertainment. Im at work - have been since before the sun came up today, the data isnt all to hand, and in any case you dont deserve the work id have to do to get the data you wont. Its your ******* argument, you provide it and if you dont have it and cant, then how dare you call anyone else out for sh*t you are clearly making up.
 

youneverknow22

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Sorry Wookie, but you're definitely wrong on this one. AFL rates higher in Sydney than NRL does in Melbourne during every neutral game, and the storm metrics you provided are somewhat meaningless. Storm only have about 4-5 games per year on FTA. Their first game airs against no AFL and gets 71k, while the rest of the games struggles to get 20k. If you put a Sydney Swans game up against a Melbourne Storm game, more people in Sydney will watch the Sydney Swans game.
Conversely, channel 7 needs to put more swans games on the main channel. Ratings have improved astronomically in Brisbane because they did it up here, so I'm surprised they're not doing it in Sydney as well
 

youneverknow22

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Also, storm only rated 20k on a Friday night with no AFL game in Melbourne. Those are shockingly bad figures and it kind of kills your argument there. Watch the Swans game this Thursday night, and it will rate more than that and it will do it with a rugby game competing against it
 

NoobPie

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Im not here to post for your entertainment. Im at work - have been since before the sun came up today, the data isnt all to hand, and in any case you dont deserve the work id have to do to get the data you wont. Its your ******* argument, you provide it and if you dont have it and cant, then how dare you call anyone else out for sh*t you are clearly making up.
Certainly wasn't my intent to make you angry

No hurry, if you feel like providing the data at some point, that's up to you.

I'm both familiar with a spreadsheet and your data records. It mightn't be "at hand" but it would be very easy for you to supply 5 years of Melbourne storm Melbourne FTA ratings.

You made this claim

the Storm get very little FTA coverage and its ratings are generally better than the Swans in Sydney when they do.
I am saying this claim is so absurdly wrong, the truth is the Storm generally get less than non-Swans AFL games in Sydney on at the same time
 

The_Wookie

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Sorry Wookie, but you're definitely wrong on this one.
Sure. whatever you say.

AFL rates higher in Sydney than NRL does in Melbourne during every neutral game,
it doesnt, but hey you believe what you want to believe.

and the storm metrics you provided are somewhat meaningless. Storm only have about 4-5 games per year on FTA. Their first game airs against no AFL and gets 71k, while the rest of the games struggles to get 20k.
They had 9 games on FTA last year. None of which rated under 20k in Melbourne, and they averaged 38k for the year. The Swans averaged 39k for the year. Including 9 games that had no NRL FTA competition.

And again, ignores Foxtel.

If you out a Sydney Swans game up against a Melbourne Storm game, more poeple in Sydney will watch the Sydney Swans game.
That happened exactly once last year. Small sample.[/QUOTE]
 
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The_Wookie

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Certainly wasn't my intent to make you angry
Well thats just too damn late.

No hurry, if you feel like providing the data at some point, that's up to you.
I dont. And I grow less inclined every post you make.

I'm both familiar with a spreadsheet and your data records. It mightn't be "at hand" but it would be very easy for you to supply 5 years of Melbourne storm Melbourne FTA ratings.
Then you do it. In the meantime Im still at work and dont have it at hand.


I am saying this claim is so absurdly wrong, the truth is the Storm generally get less than non-Swans AFL games in Sydney on at the same time
And im saying i believe you are wrong, based on my somewhat limited understanding of the ratings system. But ive only being doing this for a decade so you believe what you ******* want.

Also, storm only rated 20k on a Friday night with no AFL game in Melbourne. Those are shockingly bad figures and it kind of kills your argument there. Watch the Swans game this Thursday night, and it will rate more than that and it will do it with a rugby game competing against it
yeah nothing kills an argument on the progress of a team like a single data points. I mean fu** it why even bother with statistics.

Based on data from last year alone, the Swans could rate anywhere from 23 to 50k.

And this is just part bit of the Storms penetration of the Melbourne market.

This sh*t is why people hate AFL fans and bigfooty industry posters.
 

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