Have the Storm cracked the Melbourne market

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madmug

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Have the Storm cracked the Melbourne market?

In many ways they have and in some ways, they haven't. Crowds are one of the best in the NRL so that's a tick. Foxtel ratings is a huge tick, while FTA is where they should be with a meagre amount of games on 9 anyway and in all honesty who'd want to listen to 9's biased commentary anyway.

They've arguably got the best coach of any sport in Australia. He has this unbelievable ability to turn park players into the very best in the NRL. They also know how to recruit the right players too. finders talks about Islanders, well give me Ryan Papenhuyzen any day of the week first.

Where they continue to fail is, where it counts, at the grassroots level. They'll have to bring players into Victoria for the long term foreseeable future while this important area of the game is ignored. I don't know, but maybe the NRL are ok with this.

So what happens when they start losing? Well, that's a question people have been asking for 20 years. They asked what would happen when Cronk, Smith and Slater would no longer be around and look how that's turning out.

There's eventually going to come a time when the wheels fall off and they'll just have to ride it out as everyone else has done.
Storm do seem to be able to reinvent themselves. They clearly have a good system of recruitment, development & the business smarts.

The NRL would like them as having a team from the 2nd biggest city gives the whole competition the credibility of being 'National'.

The NRL probably back them in finding good talent to develop. Bit like the AFL finding ways to help Sydney when they were struggling in the early 1990's. The AFL finally saw how important they were in the longer term scheme of things.
 

Aucklander

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Storm do seem to be able to reinvent themselves. They clearly have a good system of recruitment, development & the business smarts.

The NRL would like them as having a team from the 2nd biggest city gives the whole competition the credibility of being 'National'.

The NRL probably back them in finding good talent to develop. Bit like the AFL finding ways to help Sydney when they were struggling in the early 1990's. The AFL finally saw how important they were in the longer term scheme of things.
Good points mate. I often wonder where my team would be if they had the structures the Storm have in place.
 

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NoobPie

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OK, so firstly I can I say I agree that the NRL have established a niche in Melbourne. They have a small base of dedicated fans and a large number of good will supporters who are primarily AFL fans and will watch them in big games when the AFL isn't on

But just to reinforce why AFL neutral games rate more in Sydney than Storm games do in Melbourne, here are the results of a football code interest survey in Hunter Fujak's book "Code Wars"

1617621363539.png


So important things to note here:

  • 22% of sydneysiders follow the AFL compared to just 12% of Melbournian's following the League
  • 8% of sydneysiders follow the AFL but not League, compared to 2% of Melbournians following League but not AFL
This explains why the Swans ratings hold up well despite being up against the NRL whereas the Storms fall away badly when they are up against the AFL. Some of the 10% of Melbournians who support the AFL and League would primary support the League but overwhelmingly they would be AFL first.
 

NoobPie

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It says more about fans in general if the non reaction of ppl here is anything to go by.
Imagine somebody in america making similar comments about makeup of NBA or NFL?!!
I don't even understand what Aucklander was saying. She was declaring she'd prefer a white player to an islander?

But how ridiculous are you. You are apparently judging the lack of reaction of AFL fans to supposedly a racist preference being declared by an NRL fan
 

Walshawk

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The Storm have a solid niche of supporters with a NSW, Qld and NZ background (like me). Very few home grown fans and zero home grown players. There have been five Vic born NRL players but all either moved to or from NSW, Qld or are Islanders. There are only fifteen RL clubs and around thirty teams playing RL in Melbourne.
Storm are a box office success by RL standards/Sydney standards - they are a brilliant club on and off the field, but there has been almost zero impact at community or junior level.
The have not cracked Melbourne at all.
 

The_Wookie

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But just to reinforce why AFL neutral games rate more in Sydney than Storm games do in Melbourne,
They dont.

AFL Neutral Games in Sydney in 2020 - 23,000 + 10,000 on Fox. Total 32,000
Storm Games in Melbourne in 2020 - 37,000 + 12,000 on Fox. Total 49,000
(Swans average rating in Sydney 39,000 + 14,000. Total 53,000 - so there i was wrong on my assumption there. Not much in it though.)

With your qualifiers of "when the AFL is on" - Storm games rate 30,000 + 11,000. Total 41,000
With my qualifiers of "when the NRL is on FTA" - neutral afl games come in at 26,000 + 10,000. Total 36,000.
 

Kwality

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Membership,Sponsorships and crowd wise in Sydney the Swans kill the Storm against the same KPIs In Melbourne and I don't buy the Swans have been in Sydney BS!
When was the last time Storm sold out AAMI (which should be every home match as the Stadium only holds 30,050) and why don't they use much bigger Marvel that BTW can be easily configured for rectangle sports!
 

Pippen94

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The Storm have a solid niche of supporters with a NSW, Qld and NZ background (like me). Very few home grown fans and zero home grown players. There have been five Vic born NRL players but all either moved to or from NSW, Qld or are Islanders. There are only fifteen RL clubs and around thirty teams playing RL in Melbourne.
Storm are a box office success by RL standards/Sydney standards - they are a brilliant club on and off the field, but there has been almost zero impact at community or junior level.
The have not cracked Melbourne at all.
Why are you making the racial distinction when counting players?! Why is race important?!

I don't even understand what Aucklander was saying. She was declaring she'd prefer a white player to an islander?

But how ridiculous are you. You are apparently judging the lack of reaction of AFL fans to supposedly a racist preference being declared by an NRL fan
Wasn't even talking about that one in that post but another comment earlier. Race is coming up in this topic a lot.

Aucklander's post was given thumbs up by a number of members who are apparently OK with that statement
 

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Aucklander

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I don't even understand what Aucklander was saying. She was declaring she'd prefer a white player to an islander?

But how ridiculous are you. You are apparently judging the lack of reaction of AFL fans to supposedly a racist preference being declared by an NRL fan
My views on finders were formed a long time ago and my wife prefers Union, but yes, I'd pick Ryan in my team 1st along with probably Tedesco who are both excitement machines who would win me games and for that reason only.

Pippen94 relax mate.
 

The_Wookie

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Membership,Sponsorships and crowd wise in Sydney the Swans kill the Storm against the same KPIs In Melbourne
and hopefully against KPIS shown by the rest of the competition the team is actually in.
  • Storms 25,000 members in 2019 was the fourth highest in the NRL.
  • Storms 18,230 home crowd average in 2019 was the third highest in the NRL.
  • Swans likely do beat the Storm for sponsorship - although it should also be noted that the exact amount of money derived from sponsorship at the Storm isnt publicly available due to its ownership structure. Most NRL clubs receive less in sponsorship than most AFL clubs. Plus a tv deal that guarantees the Swans free to air coverage and thus - more exposure for sponsors - into Sydney every week since 2007, as opposed to the 4-5 times a year the Storm might get nationally.
Compared to the Swans alone not greatest, but taken as an NRL club - its pretty damn good.

and I don't buy the Swans have been in Sydney BS!
We can ignore the additional 20 years, the hundreds of millions of dollars spent by the league on development and promotion since 2000, the creation of a second AFL team to give the Swans a somewhat meaningful rival, .

We can ignore the fact that the Swans have thousands of members in Melbourne due to their historical association with the place - it was reported in 2016 that there were 12,000 paid up Swans members in Melbourne - 21% of their members. Tony Morwood - Swans premiership player who ran the Melbourne office for the Swans said

“We have over 12,000 paid-up members in Victoria. It is the strongest of any [interstate] club,” Mr Morwood says. “And it comes back to our history. There are generations of families who have stuck to the red and white colours.”
The AFL literally spent more than a hundred million in NSW overhauling AFL NSW/ACT and funding development programs beginning in 1999-2000. It has bailed the Swans out several times in the 80s and 90s. It has provided far more funding to the Swans than the NRL has to the Storm since 1997. The NRL has spent bugger all in Victoria on development - thats the Storms problem.

Given all of the above, the Swans doing better than the Storm should be an absolute given.

When was the last time Storm sold out AAMI (which should be every home match as the Stadium only holds 30,050)
Probably ANZAC Day 2018.

and why don't they use much bigger Marvel that BTW can be easily configured for rectangle sports!
They did use Marvel periodically early on - 20 matches up until Aami Park was built. Its the AFL that prefers not to configure it for rectangular sports due to grass damage. Not to mention that the NRL isnt a fan of renting the AFL owned facility.
 

Walshawk

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Why are you making the racial distinction when counting players?! Why is race important?!



Wasn't even talking about that one in that post but another comment earlier. Race is coming up in this topic a lot.

Aucklander's post was given thumbs up by a number of members who are apparently OK with that statement
Their background is important. That zero Victorian players without a Rugby League (NSW, Qld or Pacific) background has ever played NRL speaks volumes about about whether Storm has ‘cracked the market’ here.

I am a Storm member and from a shallow perspective Storm are a big success. But it has not penetrated beyond the hardcore fans at all.
 
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Pippen94

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My views on finders were formed a long time ago and my wife prefers Union, but yes, I'd pick Ryan in my team 1st along with probably Tedesco who are both excitement machines who would win me games and for that reason only.

Pippen94 relax mate.
You don't need to group an entire race to let everybody know your favorite player. Categorizing like that for comparison purposes is stereotyping whether you recognize it or not.

Here's an article about stereotyping early pacific islander players faced in Australia

Their background is important. That zero Victorian players without a Rugby League (NSW, Qld or Pacific) background has ever played NRL speaks volumes about about whether Storm has ‘cracked the market’ here.

I am a Storm member and from a shallow perspective Storm are a big success. But it has not penetrated beyond the hardcore fans at all.
Don't worry about race
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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You don't need to group an entire race to let everybody know your favorite player. Categorizing like that for comparison purposes is stereotyping whether you recognize it or not.

Here's an article about stereotyping early pacific islander players faced in Australia



Don't worry about race
It would be like saying Cricket is growing in America and not mentioning 90% of those people are from the sub continent, it gives context. You are looking for something that isn’t there.
 

weewilly

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Have the Storm cracked the Melbourne market?

In many ways they have and in some ways, they haven't. Crowds are one of the best in the NRL so that's a tick. Foxtel ratings is a huge tick, while FTA is where they should be with a meagre amount of games on 9 anyway and in all honesty who'd want to listen to 9's biased commentary anyway.

They've arguably got the best coach of any sport in Australia. He has this unbelievable ability to turn park players into the very best in the NRL. They also know how to recruit the right players too. finders talks about Islanders, well give me Ryan Papenhuyzen any day of the week first.

Where they continue to fail is, where it counts, at the grassroots level. They'll have to bring players into Victoria for the long term foreseeable future while this important area of the game is ignored. I don't know, but maybe the NRL are ok with this.

So what happens when they start losing? Well, that's a question people have been asking for 20 years. They asked what would happen when Cronk, Smith and Slater would no longer be around and look how that's turning out.

There's eventually going to come a time when the wheels fall off and they'll just have to ride it out as everyone else has done.
All the Storm and the Rebels are in Melbourne are a novelty with most Victorians not able to name one current player in either team!

There are most likely at least 100,000 NSW expats living in Melbourne and thousands of NZers and Islanders that follow both Rugbys so how come they don't go to either of the Rugby codes in big numbers.

If they are so popular as some on here say and with the success the Storm have had for a long time why don't they in a city pf over 5 million sell out every match at AAMI and appear om Ch 9 every week?
 

BobbyMorri

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All the Storm and the Rebels are in Melbourne are a novelty with most Victorians not able to name one current player in either team!

There are most likely at least 100,000 NSW expats living in Melbourne and thousands of NZers and Islanders that follow both Rugbys so how come they don't go to either of the Rugby codes in big numbers.

If they are so popular as some on here say and with the success the Storm have had for a long time why don't they in a city pf over 5 million sell out every match at AAMI and appear om Ch 9 every week?
cam smith

I know i know, he retired this year. But how many people in Sydney will know a GWS/Sydney player if Buddy wasn't around. I wouldn't know, as I am not from NSW but my point still stands......

And they get 18K(ish) average and as Wookie said, great numbers for both crowd and members for the NRL. quite a long-lasting, successful novelty.
 

Prince Imperial

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and hopefully against KPIS shown by the rest of the competition the team is actually in.
  • Storms 25,000 members in 2019 was the fourth highest in the NRL.
  • Storms 18,230 home crowd average in 2019 was the third highest in the NRL.
That crowd average was significantly boosted by having a 41k "home" (triple-header) game in Brisbane. Their average in Melbourne was 16,104. A bit better than the NRL average (15,030) but they have had simply amazing on field success.

I think the answer to the question is "yes" though. Anecdotally, I see quite a few people wearing their merchandise and cars with their stickers. Victory have virtually disappeared on that front.
 

Aucklander

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All the Storm and the Rebels are in Melbourne are a novelty with most Victorians not able to name one current player in either team!

There are most likely at least 100,000 NSW expats living in Melbourne and thousands of NZers and Islanders that follow both Rugbys so how come they don't go to either of the Rugby codes in big numbers.

If they are so popular as some on here say and with the success the Storm have had for a long time why don't they in a city pf over 5 million sell out every match at AAMI and appear om Ch 9 every week?
Blah, blah.

Here is the link if you have the guts.
 

Aucklander

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You don't need to group an entire race to let everybody know your favorite player. Categorizing like that for comparison purposes is stereotyping whether you recognize it or not.

Here's an article about stereotyping early pacific islander players faced in Australia
As I said mate, you need to relax. You're taking my comment completely the wrong way.

No need to remind me about Olsen either as I'm well aware of his story. In fact, he remains my all-time favourite player. Watched him in his teens in Auckland and through his career in Sydney and will never forget his performances when he smashed Wally Lewis to bits.
 

NoobPie

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That crowd average was significantly boosted by having a 41k "home" (triple-header) game in Brisbane. Their average in Melbourne was 16,104. A bit better than the NRL average (15,030) but they have had simply amazing on field success.

I think the answer to the question is "yes" though. Anecdotally, I see quite a few people wearing their merchandise and cars with their stickers. Victory have virtually disappeared on that front.
On this note, it is impossible to overstate how successful the Storm have been

Even in their first 8 seasons they had won a premiership and only missed the finals twice.

In the subsequent 15 seasons

-they have won 5 premierships (including two taken due to salary cap cheating)
-won 7 minor premierships
-played in 9 grand finals
-failed to either make the gf or win the minor premiership in just 4 years
-missed the finals only once (in the punishment year)
-missed the top 4 on one other occasion


There is simply no football club of any code that has anything like that sustained success over the period

Not to mention over most of that period the Storm have had 2 players of the era likely to add to the just 13 players recognised as immortals of the 100 plus years of Australian rugby league who both played over 300 games


Not to mention cooper cronk and briefer stints by GI and other all time greats

This is pretty important context.

Certainly as you say, I do see a significant amount of Storm paraphernalia around. They have a decent niche.

But when they are at half the Swans ratings on a like for like comparison even when the latter is doing back to back bottom four finishes, you know they are nowhere near where the swans are at.

I think what Melbourne Storm have over Melbourne Victory (in addition to never having seasons anything like victory are having) is they play in a more credible and stable competition. What they share in common though is a lot of their broader support have their primary sporting allegiance in either an AFL club or a foreign soccer club.

But no doubt Storm will get tested when it inevitable has a down period
 

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