Have the tigers rendered stats useless?

Captain chaos

Club Legend
Jul 13, 2016
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GWS had one more stat than the tigers in the GF but lost by 89 points. Incredible! Often, I saw losing coaches against the tigers in press conferences lament how they won this stat or that stat yet lost the game and were suitably miffed ( Re Fagan in his two encounters against them- watch the pressers). They don't rank highly in a number of the so called important key stats but clearly were the best team winning their finals by an average of some 50 plus points, after doing something similar in 2017. Martin has 19 possessions and gets bog, cothcin doesn't rack up numbers but has significant influence etc etc and their knock it on smash it forward style doesn't lend itself to winning a lot of categories relative to their dominance.

Are we measuring the wrong thing? Just how important are they when you have more stats and lose by 89 points?
 

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Coaster2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2012
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Not really, look at the stats and you will always find the reason a team won. It may not always be a key stat, but the stat IS there. If you look at their percentage of time in the forward half, or goal efficiency, or effective disposals, you'll probably find the reason.
 
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Captain chaos

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Jul 13, 2016
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Not really, look at the stats and you will always find the reason a team won. It may not always be a key stat, but the stat IS there. If you look at their percentage of time in the forward half, or goal efficiency, or effective disposals, you'll probably find the reason.
Tell that to Chris Fagan.
 

Yojimbo

Norm Smith Medallist
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Actually Richmond have won possession 23 times in the last two seasons for 23 wins, so if you want to have
a chance to beat them it is one box you have to tick, but there are five boxes which I have already gone
into and explained in great detail in how to stop the Tigers in 2020, before that thread was destroyed by
West Coast and Richmond fans who refuse to accept the basic fact that they are both great sides.
 

Captain chaos

Club Legend
Jul 13, 2016
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Actually Richmond have won possession 23 times in the last two seasons for 23 wins, so if you want to have
a chance to beat them it is one box you have to tick, but there are five boxes which I have already gone
into and explained in great detail in how to stop the Tigers in 2020, before that thread was destroyed by
West Coast and Richmond fans who refuse to accept the basic fact that they are both great sides.

Ok but haven't they had like 35 wins during that time? So they have lost it a lot and still won?

How does one explain the GF discrepancy?
 

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Yojimbo

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2012
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Ok but haven't they had like 35 wins during that time? So they have lost it a lot and still won?

How does one explain the GF discrepancy?
Actually it does, those teams failed to tick enough boxes, Geelong in the Prelim was a classic example only
ticked the one box, not enough. Do a comparison of the two Geelong versus Richmond games at the MCG
in 2019 the difference between winning and losing was statistically graphic. Richmond only lost in 2019
when they were undermanned look out if they are blessed by the gods of continuity.
 

Soberian Tiger

🐯🏆'67 '69 '73 '74 '80; '17 '19 ? ? ?
Jul 25, 2018
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Here's a stat that matters. In the last sixty years, if Richmond makes top four (including finals), there's almost a 50% chance of a flag (a win this year, should it eventuate, would square it to 50% exactly).

For Hawthorn over the same period, the chance is even greater than 50%.

No other Victorian or ex-Victorian club comes close to an even-stevens ratio for flags versus 2nd, 3rd & 4th finishes combined over the last six decades. And certainly not Geelong or Collingwood.

Maybe it shouldn't matter how the past has played out, but it does. Elite footy is a game played between the ears. Hawthorn's earlier history shows what a culture of non-success looked like, while their last sixty years show the exact opposite. Hawthorn's and Richmond's flags tend to be not just singular events. Hawthorn was long down, then long up. Richmond has been down and up for alternating stretches.

Some gameday stats boil down to a similar sort of thing - H&A versus finals. Some will give you success in the former, but not necessarily in the latter. And there is no statistic for activity between the ears in the pressure-cooker of late September when it matters most.
 
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Soberian Tiger

🐯🏆'67 '69 '73 '74 '80; '17 '19 ? ? ?
Jul 25, 2018
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But getting back to the point. In early '17 I felt confident as a long-suffering supporter and that it would happen by being an anti-data team.

Too many footy statistics are like too many cooks. They can spoil the broth.

Irrespective of whether or not this thread was started by a Geelong or Richmond barracker, it poses a fair enough question.
 

4THAWN

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Mar 25, 2019
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As already stated, there are infinte "stats". Richmond probably follows different stats to those in the mainstream.
 

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