Have we got the us military wrong?

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Seeds

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Should we be looking at the US military in a different light given recent events in the US and Myanmar?

Why did trumps first coup attempt fail? It’s not because he only had 40 percent of the population on his side. The Nazis only had 30 percent fanatical support during their coup. The bolsheviks much less. Myanmars military virtually had no popular support. So why?

it was the military. They did not fall in line behind trump despite trumps constant firings and threats of firing of those who spoke out against him. They stood firm in the face of the US democracies first big domestic test.

ask another question. Since the end of world war 2 the US military has been the don bradman of militaries. So much more advanced then the rest. The sole dominant force on the planet for 70 years. So how much land would they steal given this power? I’m guessing Japan, a large chunk of Europe and a large chunk of Latin America. Nope I was way wrong, In the end it was a couple of islands in the pacific. why did the military show such restraint compared to other similarly positioned militaries in history? And yes politicians have the final say but the military no doubt could of pressured them into easy wins. Yet they did not. Maybe it’s because the military stands for democratic values. It’s structured in a way that prevents authoritarian take over. It’s leaders are honorable people (well in part).

And who was it by all reports that stopped trump from fire bombing nth Korea early in his presidency and stopped trump from invading Venezuela? It was the military once again who intervened before it happened.

I’m not saying the us military is some utopian peace force. It clearly has done some terrible things, particularly at the lower levels of leadership. I would much rather a global military force pushing liberal laws then a US one. But in view of history given its position of strength it has clearly been overall a strong supporter of democratic virtue. If it wasn’t for the US military then Trump probably would be a dictator right now. Maybe we should give it some slack?
 

Sweet Jesus

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Should we be looking at the US military in a different light given recent events in the US and Myanmar?

Why did trumps first coup attempt fail? It’s not because he only had 40 percent of the population on his side. The Nazis only had 30 percent fanatical support during their coup. The bolsheviks much less. Myanmars military virtually had no popular support. So why?

it was the military. They did not fall in line behind trump despite trumps constant firings and threats of firing of those who spoke out against him. They stood firm in the face of the US democracies first big domestic test.
Did Trump seek to deploy the military to overturn the election result?

I must have missed that.

Since the end of world war 2 the US military has been the don bradman of militaries. So much more advanced then the rest.
More advanced than.

I would much rather a global military force pushing liberal laws then a US one.
In that order? Or do you still not know the difference between then/than?

Who would be in charge of this "global military force"?

If it wasn’t for the US military then Trump probably would be a dictator right now.
Really? Based on what?
 
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Blue1980

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Did Trump seek to deploy the military to overturn the election result?

I must have missed that.

In that order? Or do you still not know the difference between then/than?

Who would be in charge of this "global military force"?

Really? Based on what?
Trump was certainly trying to pull the levers to get the military on side with his coup attempt.

I don’t think that joint statement of 10 former defence secretaries came out of nowhere.
 

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Blue1980

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Trump certainly tried to execute a military coup? Really?
I don’t know how else to explain why 10 former defence secretaries put out the statement they did if he hadn’t discussed that with anyone.

I’m pretty sure it never got beyond just a discussion stage and didn’t have enough numbers so didn’t go anywhere.

However, just because of that fact doesn’t mean he wasn’t wanting to organise a coup.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I don’t know how else to explain why 10 former defence secretaries put out the statement they did if he hadn’t discussed that with anyone.

I’m pretty sure it never got beyond just a discussion stage and didn’t have enough numbers so didn’t go anywhere.

However, just because of that fact doesn’t mean he wasn’t wanting to organise a coup.
Just so we're clear, you're saying you're certain Trump tried to implement a military coup?
 

Geelong_Sicko

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It looks to me like the answer lies in the fact that, though the sitting U.S President is always the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces, each and every member of the military, on joining, first swears an oath to defend the U.S Constitution before anyone else is named;

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/oath-of-enlistment-3354049

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
I'm thinking that by order of appearance if 1) the U.S Constitution and 2) the sitting U.S President contravene each other 1) would win out as the top priority of any U.S service member.

EDIT: Here's the Australian one for contrast (Is this the correct one ShanDog?)


The oath is as follows:

I, (insert full name of person) swear that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, as a member of the

(insert Royal Australian Navy , Australian Army , or Royal Australian Air Force )

(insert for the period of (number of years) , and any extensions of that period,

or until retiring age, )

and that I will resist Her enemies and faithfully discharge my duty according to law.

SO HELP ME GOD!

(person's signature)
 
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Seeds

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Just so we are clear, beyond all reasonable doubt trump implemented a coup.

while asking judges to throw out votes is not necessarily a coup if there are valid reasons. Asking his fellow republicans in positions of power to throw out democratic votes and choose him instead of the will of the voters is a coup if it succeeded. Trump did this. Every single agency evaluating a countries democracy would of declared it a straight up coup. There is no reasonable doubt around this. It doesn’t matter if it was technically ok by the US constitution. It just means the US constitution has an out clause to enable democracy to be replaced with dictatorship.

After thé election result the agencies trump targeted more than any other to replace personal with trump yes men was the pentagon and defence forces. There is zéro reason why this would be his area of interest if his goal was just to help make trumps American first policy stick. He was clearly making power plays to get the military to support him with his coup attempt. Either to be part of it or atleast not get in the way of it when it did. And that coup attempt did happen. The military overwhelmingly did not support it. If they did the world would be very different right now.
 

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spinynorman

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The military would never perform a coup on behalf of Trump to stop Biden. Biden's not going to resist the military's wishes, he's not a threat to them, so why would they coup him (especially on behalf of Trump, who was said to have frustrated intelligence agencies because of his inability to concentrate on foreign policy, including interrupting a CIA briefing to order milkshakes (God I love this story).

If the Democrat had been Sanders then maybe they'd have been tempted, but Biden's never stood in the way of the war machine.

Since the end of world war 2 the US military has been the don bradman of militaries. So much more advanced then the rest. The sole dominant force on the planet for 70 years. So how much land would they steal given this power? I’m guessing Japan, a large chunk of Europe and a large chunk of Latin America. Nope I was way wrong, In the end it was a couple of islands in the pacific. why did the military show such restraint compared to other similarly positioned militaries in history? And yes politicians have the final say but the military no doubt could of pressured them into easy wins. Yet they did not. Maybe it’s because the military stands for democratic values. It’s structured in a way that prevents authoritarian take over. It’s leaders are honorable people (well in part).
How old are you that you were predicting in 1945 the American military would conquer Japan, Europe and Latin America?

The American Empire has differed from the old European empires in that they've not set to expand into colonies and territorial conquests and all that (notably, their first war post-1945 with an old colonial outpost was an absolute disaster in Vietnam). Instead they've installed pro-American Governments in a range of nations around the world, often via coups (eg. Chile, Indonesia, Brazil, Iran) and often training paramilitaries in these countries who have committed genocide (eg. Indonesia again, and Operation Condor, with the reminder that US-backed death squads in Central and South America murdered more people from 1960 to 1991 than were killed in Eastern Europe by communist regimes).
 

Blue1980

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Just so we're clear, you're saying you're certain Trump tried to implement a military coup?
I don’t think it ever got that far. I think he was exploring all options though.

How would you explain the press release from the former Defence secretaries in early Jan? I don’t think they just did that to get their names in the news again.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I don’t think it ever got that far. I think he was exploring all options though.
So he didn't attempt to implement a military coup?

This seems like a key point.

How would you explain the press release from the former Defence secretaries in early Jan? I don’t think they just did that to get their names in the news again.
Was it because Trump was seeking to implement a military coup?

I can't keep track.
 

spinynorman

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I don’t think it ever got that far. I think he was exploring all options though.

How would you explain the press release from the former Defence secretaries in early Jan? I don’t think they just did that to get their names in the news again.
At a time when the Pentagon’s failures are as explicit as they’ve ever been, it seems the release did the trick of getting naïfs to write online about how righteous the US military is.
 

Blue1980

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So he didn't attempt to implement a military coup?

This seems like a key point.

Was it because Trump was seeking to implement a military coup?

I can't keep track.
I was posing the question to you, why do you think they made that joint statement? Not exactly a normal thing to do was it?

In my view it was to discourage any of the military with going along with anything that may of been discussed, meaning they must have got some info Trump was trying something.

What he was trying and how far it got, I have no idea. Just the fact that joint statement was made by the defence secretaries makes me think some dodgy stuff was going on.

So I’m not really sure what you are arguing against me with here. I never said he attempted a military coup, as obviously that didn’t come to fruition. Are you certain Trump didn’t discuss this or consider it at all though?
 

Sweet Jesus

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I was posing the question to you, why do you think they made that joint statement? Not exactly a normal thing to do was it?
What point are you trying to make?

OMG was it because Trump was planning a coup?

In my view it was to discourage any of the military with going along with anything that may of been discussed, meaning they must have got some info Trump was trying something.

What he was trying and how far it got, I have no idea. Just the fact that joint statement was made by the defence secretaries makes me think some dodgy stuff was going on.

So I’m not really sure what you are arguing against me with here. I never said he attempted a military coup, as obviously that didn’t come to fruition.
Seems like a bob each way. On one hand, he wasn't trying to implement a military coup. On the other hand, maybe he was. Let me know when you decide.

The game of peek-a-boo doesn't interest me.

Are you certain Trump didn’t discuss this or consider it at all though?
That's a dumb way to frame a question.

I think seeds thinks the US military could of used their power for more evil than they actually have.

Not that I necessarily agree, but that’s his point i believe.
He doesn't know what day it is.
 
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Blue1980

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What point are you trying to make?

OMG was it because Trump was planning a coup?

Seems like a bob each way. On one hand, he wasn't trying to implement a military coup. On the other hand, maybe he was. Let me know when you decide.

The game of peek-a-boo doesn't interest me.

That's a dumb way to frame a question.

He doesn't know what day it is.
I think Trump put feelers out to the military but didn’t get far.

I don’t know this for a fact, it’s just what I’ve pieced together. I think it probably only went as far as him talking to some loyalists to see what the military could do, but being talked out of it or not being supported by anyone substantial, so didn’t progress.

I think what Trump was trying was serious enough for 10 former defence secretaries had to come out and say something which is totally unprecedented.

So even though I’ve said it before I will say it again, certainly no military coup was planned as it never got to that stage of discussion.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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I think Trump put feelers out to the military but didn’t get far.

I don’t know this for a fact, it’s just what I’ve pieced together. I think it probably only went as far as him talking to some loyalists to see what the military could do, but being talked out of it or not being supported by anyone substantial, so didn’t progress.

I think what Trump was trying was serious enough for 10 former defence secretaries had to come out and say something which is totally unprecedented.

So even though I’ve said it before I will say it again, certainly no military coup was planned as it never got to that stage of discussion.
This might be better served being in the conspiracy board with the other crackpots.
 

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