Have we got the us military wrong?

[DaRick]

C'mon. I haven't heard of a single one of those TV shows, songs, movies or theater performances about the My Lai massacre, and I've watched a lot of popular media about the Vietnam War. Musicians like John Deer and Terry Nelson? Who TF are they? A 1975 musical?

Presumably before your time, or not shown here.

Whereas Stanley Kubrick is one the greatest directors of all time and his film ranks alongside Platoon and Apocalypse Now as the "classic" Vietnam War movies.

Yes, I agree that the film is a classic.

Given all the pro war propaganda out there most westerners think that "our boys" are perfect and only the "evildoers" commit atrocities.

Given the nature of those three classic films on balance (none of which portrays 'our side' in a wonderful light), I'm not so sure about that. Even films like The Odd Angry Shot don't show 'our side' in an overly glamorous light.

 

[Schneebly11]

Given the nature of those three classic films on balance (none of which portrays 'our side' in a wonderful light), I'm not so sure about that. Even films like The Odd Angry Shot don't show 'our side' in an overly glamorous light.

Those films were released between 1979-1987. Different time, directors having come of age in the “New Hollywood” era and a culture at the time that could allow films to be made.

Look at the typical war movies about more current conflicts. American Sniper, 13 Hours, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, all essentially pro military propaganda. That’s without even mentioning Act of Valour, which is blatant propaganda.

Onan Australian front we see films like Beneath Hill 60, Danger Close, Kokoda, maybe the Sea Patrol TV series? They show war as bad and gritty no doubt butour brave heroes are always the good guys, no questions about their character.

Wonder if we’ll ever see a film detailing the exploits of the SASR in Afghanistan I wonder......

 

[spinynorman]

Those films were released between 1979-1987. Different time, directors having come of age in the “New Hollywood” era and a culture at the time that could allow films to be made.

Look at the typical war movies about more current conflicts. American Sniper, 13 Hours, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, all essentially pro military propaganda. That’s without even mentioning Act of Valour, which is blatant propaganda.

Onan Australian front we see films like Beneath Hill 60, Danger Close, Kokoda, maybe the Sea Patrol TV series? They show war as bad and gritty no doubt butour brave heroes are always the good guys, no questions about their character.

Wonder if we’ll ever see a film detailing the exploits of the SASR in Afghanistan I wonder......

When I first saw American Sniper knowing next to nothing about Chris Kyle etc, I thought it a pretty good portrayal of the psychotic mass murderers pumped out by the American military. I was honestly a little surprised it was intended and viewed as a portrait of a brave hero.

It is a depressing reality of modern media that where the Vietnam War inspired some of the greatest anti-war movies ever made, the equally unpopular modern wars have not had anywhere near the same response (the best of the movies is probably The Hurt Locker, which at least isn't a total glorification. But even the recent Cherry takes an excellent, thoughtful book and smooths out any of the meaning behind it for broad "edgy" detail).

And then there's the upcoming Six Days in Fallujah video game, which looks horrific.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Should we be looking at the US military in a different light given recent events in the US and Myanmar?

Why did trumps first coup attempt fail? It’s not because he only had 40 percent of the population on his side. The Nazis only had 30 percent fanatical support during their coup. The bolsheviks much less. Myanmars military virtually had no popular support. So why?

it was the military. They did not fall in line behind trump despite trumps constant firings and threats of firing of those who spoke out against him. They stood firm in the face of the US democracies first big domestic test.

ask another question. Since the end of world war 2 the US military has been the don bradman of militaries. So much more advanced then the rest. The sole dominant force on the planet for 70 years. So how much land would they steal given this power? I’m guessing Japan, a large chunk of Europe and a large chunk of Latin America. Nope I was way wrong, In the end it was a couple of islands in the pacific. why did the military show such restraint compared to other similarly positioned militaries in history? And yes politicians have the final say but the military no doubt could of pressured them into easy wins. Yet they did not. Maybe it’s because the military stands for democratic values. It’s structured in a way that prevents authoritarian take over. It’s leaders are honorable people (well in part).

And who was it by all reports that stopped trump from fire bombing nth Korea early in his presidency and stopped trump from invading Venezuela? It was the military once again who intervened before it happened.

I’m not saying the us military is some utopian peace force. It clearly has done some terrible things, particularly at the lower levels of leadership. I would much rather a global military force pushing liberal laws then a US one. But in view of history given its position of strength it has clearly been overall a strong supporter of democratic virtue. If it wasn’t for the US military then Trump probably would be a dictator right now. Maybe we should give it some slack?

In the free societies of the world we have to have military that do just as you described, played advisor and perhaps a "strong" advisor at times to leaders who may have been going a little too far .
And persuaded those leaders to not go down a path that is a bad one.
I'd suggest that we do look at the US military in the wrong way, some of us I mean. Making them out to be some world dominant super dangerous over active aggressor, WHEN THE PROOF IS THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN THAT BUT ARE NOT.

I also think China is playing "push the envelope " with the USA because the USA military what ever reports we hear is still by far the most powerful experienced blooded force on earth, whether the economy is going great or not when things get nasty outside , the whole US household closes ranks.
Also I think that the US military has so much punch that the world doesn't know about, that I would not be too pushy if I was an aggressor in their area.
I believe they also want to station more people here, in our north, of course they would like us to get rid of the Port in Darwin the Chinese have control over,they wish to leave military stores equipment etc, and I would suggest a deep water naval base in our north as well.
I would welcome the USA .
World politics has changed we in Australia have changed our position and are ramping up our own military , I think it is far fetched and mostly wishful thinking from a political angle thattells us the US would abandon us!
In fact with the interests of their own in the region and on our soil, our ally will never just let that float away .
But biased commentary and biased media simply can't be believed any more, by the same token the threat from China may be a little exxaggerated, although they have form as bullies, and Hong Kong and Taiwan aren't great examples of a nice ex-trading partner.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I don't think we need to dial them up much for it to fall off the edge like dealing with China has.

The modus operandi is that evidence is presented that accuses China of something, they immediately accuse you of doing that exact thing and the discussion ends.

So I wonder, what would have taken for the people talking about the military being used, insert Pelosi airing her thoughts on this in front of a camera in the most calming way, being the group that are now guarded by the military after they ensured power transition to them to have been the ones utilizing them the entire time. One of the first actions taken by the new administration was to send forces back into Syria. The keystone pipeline is binned, oil prices climbing internally. Media begin linking Iran to missile strikes in Syria.

There is significant power in the US military behind the scenes, not as a spear to protect the American way of life but in propping up and maintaining their economic power across the globe. It's been a long time since the US needed to buy significant hardware for a war and I think the pockets might be getting itchy.

There's nothing but circumstantial there but I won't be surprised if, in thirty years, the NYT expose on the Iranian War comes out that conditions were set to manufacture the conflict so support the massive money and power in the military industry that fell in line with their chosen political party.

Building public support for a conflict will take something special though. They will need an attack on home soil again.

---

On the general topic, the US has expensive toys but it's military is mostly jarhead grunts who are trained to the lowest common denominator such that you can have two groups moving through a valley that both know the other is there, one sees movement and opens fire, his team open fire in the same direction, the other team return fire before they are on the radio calling in that they have engaged the enemy. This happened with Australian forces embedded in these groups.

This is part of the reason why Australians didn't want to be under US command, would prefer to spend an extra week on a freezing mountain and call in air support for the US grunts than move in with them.

I think another nation with enough warm bodies that can hold a gun will be able to compete with them just fine.

You have some strange ideas. Look at the big picture and never say Australia would not be under US command they have been for 70 years. By the way the Americans have had our Generals at times in charge of large groups of American troops as well, get the facts.
We are connected to the US more than it appears than what you seem to think.
Don't believe all you read. Also the media probably know less than you, there lives are made up of small truths and beat up bullduist! Rarely truth just biased opinion!
They spill out useless probably untrue information, especially a certain crew that the taxpayer pays for.

The western world and our societies and the way we live depends on having military and ideals and what we consider free living?
Even in the WEST FREE LIVING IS SOMETIMES "NOT FREE" in our societies you can get duped as easily as a dictator can persecute their own people, or big business groups too can make it (the free comment) a conditional freedom, you understand that I guess. I say that so it doesn't appear that the Western lifestyle is not exactly perfect or free, but you know what the "free" I'm talking about means because you live in a western society.
Its just that you can call the Wests politically bred and business moguls foul names, out loud, and not get shot!

Rubbishing our biggest ally, whose values are somewhat close to ours as citizens of western society is stupid. And political.

And looking at the history of our biggest ally with many interests of its own in this country, we can see that they have made terrible mistakes and followed the wrong track and become somewhat ambitious plus paranoid as in Vietnam and the George. W. Bush second war on Iraq!
When you look deeply , you can tell the last greatest empire to exist the Brits and the second most dominating empire for its time the Romans , all use well, and also use their power terribly at times , it comes with being human and and with building empire.
What should be happening in this modern world is that China perhaps needs to learn those times are over, because if they tried they would be part of the end of the societies we all are part of different or not.
If the CCP is that stupid, they may invite a pre-emptive belting before they do get big enough to challenge and then we are all gone if that escalated.
We are in no position these days, the human race that is,to enter into another giant conflict, the weaponry is too powerful

We from all sides of the international political and religious front ( because religion has become a political hot war zone too), need to sit down and talk.
But rubbishing your ally, is like John Platten telling Jeansy to get rid of Jason Dunstall right in the middle of a purple patch. It won';t happen and Jason wouldn't go away anyway.
Think on that one and hit back hard, unlike the Hawks have been doing last week!

That word, grunt, let just let the American military different operations, let them make up their word for their own soldiers,
from different parts of the US's mixed groups of military. Only they have the right to comment like that unless your one, thats what I think anyway.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I told you I had no categoric proof, I never claimed I did. No one has any proof of it, there is what we know about what happened between November and January with Trump and what we don’t know.

Are you suggesting you need complete proof of something in order to have an opinion of anything?

I told you why I think what I think, you don’t agree, fine. You think I’m being a far fetched conspiracy theorist, good for you.

One thing we do know is that November a very suss election took place and that we should all just shut up because we DO NOT KNOW, it is all opinion on mostly what you want to believe or the way your political leaning goes.

If you are a political following, type, then more than likely you have a leaning to a bias of some sort, and one bias was the Trump hatred displayed by politically bent folk with no real knowledge or reason, just his hair do and his TV persona. Got to be joking?
It has been for me, as a total outsider, from US politics, an abomination so many falsehoods and lies, ignorance like nothing I've ever seen, and even our own national broadcaster has done everything and anything to abuse insult and bring him down even now. This bloke had poison flung at him from word go.
Obama has copped the same from the other end, by the likes of Bill O'Rielly and Fox News , absolutely blind disbelief that Obama got a second term.

But the Trump hate is something I have not seen before it was a sickness from the left, the woke and blind haters, and bloody frightening to see in our society.

Check out the lift in deaths in the USA since the killing of the criminal George Floyd, doesn't mean his death is not a tragedy!

The tragedy is that he wound up a criminal in the first place. USA needs to fix that!

But if you look at Minnesota the black on black deaths have doubled, probably all over those areas in the US, and democrats also should have had impeachment thrown at them too, because they all incited trouble, it's just that Trump was a target and a massive one for the disease of the left is it's hatred.
Have you seen the reports of the money the BLM person who began the group, Have a look. The hypicrisy is vomit inducing! And some Wke left donkeys want to bring that sh*t here? This is whats happening , beware the mad left , are very dangerous.

Middle Australia better keep their eyes open!

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I also think China is playing "push the envelope " with the USA because the USA military what ever reports we hear is still by far the most powerful experienced blooded force on earth, whether the economy is going great or not when things get nasty outside , the whole US household closes ranks.
Also I think that the US military has so much punch that the world doesn't know about, that I would not be too pushy if I was an aggressor in their area.

China clearly does not want a conventional war with the US.

The question is whether the US is actually willing to intervene if China pursues hegemony in its own backyard in a way that does not directly threaten the US.

Take, for example, the South China Sea. The US is in principle committed to freedom of navigation and the international law of the sea, but is it really going to get involved if China encroaches on the territorial claims of Vietnam or the Philippines? If China maintains its "nine-dash line" and says "all of this is ours" while building militarised islands in the middle of it, is the US going to send in the cavalary to protect it?

Seems unlikely. So China does in fact have a relatively free hand to expand its influence in Asia Pacific - to say nothing of its bilateral security relations with smaller, weaker countries - without seriously risking open conflict with the US. That probably suits China down to the ground. They want to dominate Asia Pacific, which they see as their domain of influence historically. And it's not at all clear that the US sees that as a direct threat that should be countered militarily.

 

[madmug]

One thing we do know is that November a very suss election took place and that we should all just shut up because we DO NOT KNOW, it is all opinion on mostly what you want to believe or the way your political leaning goes.

If you are a political following, type, then more than likely you have a leaning to a bias of some sort, and one bias was the Trump hatred displayed by politically bent folk with no real knowledge or reason, just his hair do and his TV persona. Got to be joking?
It has been for me, as a total outsider, from US politics, an abomination so many falsehoods and lies, ignorance like nothing I've ever seen, and even our own national broadcaster has done everything and anything to abuse insult and bring him down even now. This bloke had poison flung at him from word go.
Obama has copped the same from the other end, by the likes of Bill O'Rielly and Fox News , absolutely blind disbelief that Obama got a second term.

But the Trump hate is something I have not seen before it was a sickness from the left, the woke and blind haters, and bloody frightening to see in our society.

Check out the lift in deaths in the USA since the killing of the criminal George Floyd, doesn't mean his death is not a tragedy!

The tragedy is that he wound up a criminal in the first place. USA needs to fix that!

But if you look at Minnesota the black on black deaths have doubled, probably all over those areas in the US, and democrats also should have had impeachment thrown at them too, because they all incited trouble, it's just that Trump was a target and a massive one for the disease of the left is it's hatred.
Have you seen the reports of the money the BLM person who began the group, Have a look. The hypicrisy is vomit inducing! And some Wke left donkeys want to bring that sh*t here? This is whats happening , beware the mad left , are very dangerous.

Middle Australia better keep their eyes open!

You clearly missed the Obama years. The racist hatred from Dozy right was disgraceful.

The thing about Trump is that he was a lying, cheating slug well before he used ignorant people to gain political power as POTUS. He quickly busied himself monetising that position.

Creating the big Lie just shows he'll destroy anything, including the US democracy, to gratify his massive & delicate Ego.

Hopefully his cheating 'business' past will see him get 100yrs hard labor & a $20billion fine to rip every ill gotten cent from him & his slimy family.

Other than that I wish Trump all the best in his post POTUS retirement.

 

[JoondalupJ]

You clearly missed the Obama years. The racist hatred from Dozy right was disgraceful.

The thing about Trump is that he was a lying, cheating slug well before he used ignorant people to gain political power as POTUS. He quickly busied himself monetising that position.

Creating the big Lie just shows he'll destroy anything, including the US democracy, to gratify his massive & delicate Ego.

Hopefully his cheating 'business' past will see him get 100yrs hard labor & a $20billion fine to rip every ill gotten cent from him & his slimy family.

Other than that I wish Trump all the best in his post POTUS retirement.

Sh*t your an angry ant, or a jester.
I have mentioned Obama actually can't remember which post it was maybe to you about Fox News and good old Bill O' , I think Biden is a disaster and I think Trump gioven time woul;d have been the best President that country had ever seen but you have to tread on things to get somewhere and lots don't see that, but they do see a hair do or a joke or a foul mouthed actor and they believe them??? I think I'm spot on, but maybe its just me? heh heh .
Speaking of destroying Democracy, Pelosi and her Democrat friends did that for four years and need impeaching, Biden is more than likely a crook, and perhaps a traitor. And maybe used his VP office the wrong way but that has too been hidden from the light, doesn't matter the old fella is not running that place anyhow!

 

[madmug]

Sh*t your an angry ant, or a jester.
I have mentioned Obama actually can't remember which post it was maybe to you about Fox News and good old Bill O' , I think Biden is a disaster and I think Trump gioven time woul;d have been the best President that country had ever seen but you have to tread on things to get somewhere and lots don't see that, but they do see a hair do or a joke or a foul mouthed actor and they believe them??? I think I'm spot on, but maybe its just me? heh heh .
Speaking of destroying Democracy, Pelosi and her Democrat friends did that for four years and need impeaching, Biden is more than likely a crook, and perhaps a traitor. And maybe used his VP office the wrong way but that has too been hidden from the light, doesn't matter the old fella is not running that place anyhow!

Biden may well be a crook. I haven't seen any indictments yet. However he wouldn't hold a candle in that regard to Trump & his minions. Trumps been a crook all his life.

Treading on things? Like the law etc?

I didn't see Pelosi etc denying the result of a Presidential election? So how did they destroy anything?

Anyway well see how all the Orange ones indictments go in court.

I just hope they have an orange jump suit big enough to cover his fat arse.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Biden may well be a crook. I haven't seen any indictments yet. However he wouldn't hold a candle in that regard to Trump & his minions. Trumps been a crook all his life.

Treading on things? Like the law etc?

I didn't see Pelosi etc denying the result of a Presidential election? So how did they destroy anything?

Anyway well see how all the Orange ones indictments go in court.

I just hope they have an orange jump suit big enough to cover his fat arse.

Ilove your nbipartisan attitude , sounds like you know the lot, so I give up, I'm sick on concreted minds.

 

[madmug]

Ilove your nbipartisan attitude , sounds like you know the lot, so I give up, I'm sick on concreted minds.

I know I can't stand the past POTUS. (ie Phat Orange Thieving Unsavory Sleezebag).

See ya.

 

[spinynorman]

Trump fully deserved impeachment and deserves prison today. This doesn’t make him unique in American Presidents, although he would be one of the worse ones.

I do find the sheer hatred of Trump compared to others, such as the recently embraced George W Bush, a little odd. Trump did indeed attempt to steal an election, but then Bush successfully did that. Their damage to the lives of ordinary American people were equal, with devastating recessions that destroyed the livelihoods of millions of people thanks to their ideological inability to deal with a financial crisis.

But Bush’s million dead in the Middle East is one of the worst crimes perpetrated in the last half century. And while Trump’s handling of Covid was likewise criminal, it doesn’t compare to anyone who recognises that Afghan and Iraqi lives are the equal of American lives.

Yet Bush is put on the talk shows and has cuddles with Michelle Obama and his friendship with Ellen DeGeneres is what makes America great. And then we get this thread with its ridiculous assertion about the US military’s goodness. At least Trump briefly woke people up to the evils of American power, but already many want to forget it happened and treat it as an anomaly.

 

[madmug]

Trump fully deserved impeachment and deserves prison today. This doesn’t make him unique in American Presidents, although he would be one of the worse ones.

I do find the sheer hatred of Trump compared to others, such as the recently embraced George W Bush, a little odd. Trump did indeed attempt to steal an election, but then Bush successfully did that. Their damage to the lives of ordinary American people were equal, with devastating recessions that destroyed the livelihoods of millions of people thanks to their ideological inability to deal with a financial crisis.

But Bush’s million dead in the Middle East is one of the worst crimes perpetrated in the last half century. And while Trump’s handling of Covid was likewise criminal, it doesn’t compare to anyone who recognises that Afghan and Iraqi lives are the equal of American lives.

Yet Bush is put on the talk shows and has cuddles with Michelle Obama and his friendship with Ellen DeGeneres is what makes America great. And then we get this thread with its ridiculous assertion about the US military’s goodness. At least Trump briefly woke people up to the evils of American power, but already many want to forget it happened and treat it as an anomaly.

Yep. Even Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex way back, 60 years ago in fact.

American Corporatism likewise is greedy, dangerous & damaging.

Trump himself is just such a greedy, slimy, nasty slag. He was all that before becoming President. He has conned millions with lies. So many lies.

The US is clearly 'sick'. Hopefully their are enough 'well' people to keep the place alive.

Trump has just made this so clear to all of us. However, as a person, he is one of the worst human beings I can imagine.

I attack him on that basis. He represents so much of what I hate.

 

[DaRick]

Trump fully deserved impeachment and deserves prison today. This doesn’t make him unique in American Presidents, although he would be one of the worse ones.

I do find the sheer hatred of Trump compared to others, such as the recently embraced George W Bush, a little odd. Trump did indeed attempt to steal an election, but then Bush successfully did that. Their damage to the lives of ordinary American people were equal, with devastating recessions that destroyed the livelihoods of millions of people thanks to their ideological inability to deal with a financial crisis.

But Bush’s million dead in the Middle East is one of the worst crimes perpetrated in the last half century. And while Trump’s handling of Covid was likewise criminal, it doesn’t compare to anyone who recognises that Afghan and Iraqi lives are the equal of American lives.

Yet Bush is put on the talk shows and has cuddles with Michelle Obama and his friendship with Ellen DeGeneres is what makes America great. And then we get this thread with its ridiculous assertion about the US military’s goodness. At least Trump briefly woke people up to the evils of American power, but already many want to forget it happened and treat it as an anomaly.

If it wasn't for COVID-19, I'd honestly have ranked Trump over Bush.

Beyond that though, the issue is that Trump is very easy to dislike personally. He comes off as aggressive, belligerent, manipulative, narcissistic and so bereft of empathy that he would willingly have affairs and rip off his clients, partners and employees (many of whom were socioeconomically disadvantaged) without a second thought. Also, he was born into money (much like Kerry Packer), and unlike the otherwise detestable Uncle Rupe, he wasn't even a particularly good businessman in his prime.

I'd compare him to Kerry Packer and Clive Palmer, but the former was not above looking after 'his people', or people who acted in his interests in some way (improving cricketer rights after making money off cricket; donating money to the NSW Ambulance service), whereas Clive was at least genuinely a self-made man who undermined the worst state government in my lifetime and helped kibosh the 2014 AUS Budget. Also Clive comes off as more comedic than Trump.

Bush, by comparison, comes off as pretty affable, just not the sort of person you'd let near sharp objects, never mind the Presidency. Cheney was the real POS in that little operation.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If it wasn't for COVID-19, I'd honestly have ranked Trump over Bush.

Beyond that though, the issue is that Trump is very easy to dislike personally. He comes off as aggressive, belligerent, manipulative, narcissistic and so bereft of empathy that he would willingly have affairs and rip off his clients, partners and employees (many of whom were socioeconomically disadvantaged) without a second thought. Also, he was born into money (much like Kerry Packer), and unlike the otherwise detestable Uncle Rupe, he wasn't even a particularly good businessman in his prime.

This reduces the criticisms of Trump to simply not liking his personality, which is ridiculous. That wasn't "the issue". All of those personality flaws are evident but they don't adequately describe his contempt for democracy and its institutions. You're talking about a would-be authoritarian and claiming people were only complaining because he had bad manners. He could have been charming and polite but his nascent authoritarianism would still have been a problem.

 

[DaRick]

This reduces the criticisms of Trump to simply not liking his personality, which is ridiculous. That wasn't "the issue". All of those personality flaws are evident but they don't adequately describe his contempt for democracy and its institutions. You're talking about a would-be authoritarian and claiming people were only complaining because he had bad manners. He could have been charming and polite but his nascent authoritarianism would still have been a problem.

Good points.

LU2, GL.

Now next, can we please next have a debate wherein we can decide whether the definition of 'string' in the Oxford English Dictionary or the Macquarie Dictionary is more valid?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Good points.

LU2, GL.

Now next, can we please next have a debate wherein we can decide whether the definition of 'string' in the Oxford English Dictionary or the Macquarie Dictionary is more valid?

Is this an in-joke that has escaped me?

 

[DaRick]

Is this an in-joke that has escaped me?

Several, actually.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Several, actually.

Can't say I feel like I'm missing out.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Trump fully deserved impeachment and deserves prison today. This doesn’t make him unique in American Presidents, although he would be one of the worse ones.

I do find the sheer hatred of Trump compared to others, such as the recently embraced George W Bush, a little odd. Trump did indeed attempt to steal an election, but then Bush successfully did that. Their damage to the lives of ordinary American people were equal, with devastating recessions that destroyed the livelihoods of millions of people thanks to their ideological inability to deal with a financial crisis.

But Bush’s million dead in the Middle East is one of the worst crimes perpetrated in the last half century. And while Trump’s handling of Covid was likewise criminal, it doesn’t compare to anyone who recognises that Afghan and Iraqi lives are the equal of American lives.

Yet Bush is put on the talk shows and has cuddles with Michelle Obama and his friendship with Ellen DeGeneres is what makes America great. And then we get this thread with its ridiculous assertion about the US military’s goodness. At least Trump briefly woke people up to the evils of American power, but already many want to forget it happened and treat it as an anomaly.

RUBBISH! They are all turds, but Trump whatever you think of him tells it like it is, and the hatred for him is insane, and Pelosi was a stupid angry child ripping up a speech, and all of them are liars, but Trump tried to do what he said. Full stop. Hard and probably cunning but not one of the elite sewerage, that runs American politics, in fact the hatred for him is because he opened their bellies up scared the s**t out of the establishment, and he might again.
Bush yes Iraq and Afghanistan were major mistakes, could have paid back the murderers of 9/11 under cover , hunt and kill time didn't matter but what George did , shows that he is too dumb to realise what a nightmare he created for the world.
His father at least had Iraq in his sights for invading Kuwait.

But raving about hanging Trump is really blind hatred with no thinking behind it. I 'd reckon Hillary could stand beside him on the gallows hey?

 

[Pie eyed]

Should we be looking at the US military in a different light given recent events in the US and Myanmar?

Why did trumps first coup attempt fail? It’s not because he only had 40 percent of the population on his side. The Nazis only had 30 percent fanatical support during their coup. The bolsheviks much less. Myanmars military virtually had no popular support. So why?

it was the military. They did not fall in line behind trump despite trumps constant firings and threats of firing of those who spoke out against him. They stood firm in the face of the US democracies first big domestic test.

ask another question. Since the end of world war 2 the US military has been the don bradman of militaries. So much more advanced then the rest. The sole dominant force on the planet for 70 years. So how much land would they steal given this power? I’m guessing Japan, a large chunk of Europe and a large chunk of Latin America. Nope I was way wrong, In the end it was a couple of islands in the pacific. why did the military show such restraint compared to other similarly positioned militaries in history? And yes politicians have the final say but the military no doubt could of pressured them into easy wins. Yet they did not. Maybe it’s because the military stands for democratic values. It’s structured in a way that prevents authoritarian take over. It’s leaders are honorable people (well in part).

And who was it by all reports that stopped trump from fire bombing nth Korea early in his presidency and stopped trump from invading Venezuela? It was the military once again who intervened before it happened.

I’m not saying the us military is some utopian peace force. It clearly has done some terrible things, particularly at the lower levels of leadership. I would much rather a global military force pushing liberal laws then a US one. But in view of history given its position of strength it has clearly been overall a strong supporter of democratic virtue. If it wasn’t for the US military then Trump probably would be a dictator right now. Maybe we should give it some slack?

Korea. Vietnam, Afghanistan.
I would say they did take more because they are obviously over-rated.

 

[Seeds]

Korea. Vietnam, Afghanistan.
I would say they did take more because they are obviously over-rated.

They didn’t take any of them. That’s a large reason why they lost. Cos they don’t take land. They aimed to stop or overthrow dangerous dictatorships with expansionist desires and replace them with either democracies or at worst dictatorships lacking in expansionist desires.

they did this for western ideology. Thats in their self interest. Its in all of our self interests.

and along the way they helped boost women’s rights in in Afghanistan and created a strong vibrant society in South Korea. They stopped the expansion of communism into the east Asian peninsula protecting both South Korea and Japan. south east Asian peninsula was a much bigger mess. But one expansionist communist regime didn’t take over the whole thing as initially feared.

the reason afghanistan has fallen is because of poor political leadership that really didn’t have a good nation building plan. Just a very clumsy one and because both trump and Biden are popularist selfish isolationists.

 

[FredLeDeux]

They didn’t take any of them. That’s a large reason why they lost. Cos they don’t take land. They aimed to stop or overthrow dangerous dictatorships with expansionist desires and replace them with either democracies or at worst dictatorships lacking in expansionist desires.

they did this for western ideology. Thats in their self interest. Its in all of our self interests.

and along the way they helped boost women’s rights in in Afghanistan and created a strong vibrant society in South Korea. They stopped the expansion of communism into the east Asian peninsula protecting both South Korea and Japan. south east Asian peninsula was a much bigger mess. But one expansionist communist regime didn’t take over the whole thing as initially feared.

the reason afghanistan has fallen is because of poor political leadership that really didn’t have a good nation building plan. Just a very clumsy one and because both trump and Biden are popularist selfish isolationists.

For a so-called "isolationist", Biden has sure assembled a fine old lot of warmongering bastards in his cabinet.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Sh*t your an angry ant, or a jester.
I have mentioned Obama actually can't remember which post it was maybe to you about Fox News and good old Bill O' , I think Biden is a disaster and I think Trump gioven time woul;d have been the best President that country had ever seen but you have to tread on things to get somewhere and lots don't see that, but they do see a hair do or a joke or a foul mouthed actor and they believe them??? I think I'm spot on, but maybe its just me? heh heh .
Speaking of destroying Democracy, Pelosi and her Democrat friends did that for four years and need impeaching, Biden is more than likely a crook, and perhaps a traitor. And maybe used his VP office the wrong way but that has too been hidden from the light, doesn't matter the old fella is not running that place anyhow!

I wonder now

I know I can't stand the past POTUS. (ie Phat Orange Thieving Unsavory Sleezebag).

See ya.

Hello Madmug, I wonder how you reckon Good old boy Joe is going now?

Biden does he know where Afghanistan is? Does he call a pullout without
realising there are several thousands and thousands of civilians and US and allied troopps there. Nah its ok we'll pullout today,
there's on;y about 10 soldiers there.
Biden may or may not be a good or bad person onl;y his son Hunter points arrows in that direction and as President he will probably never get pinged for anything.

But Madmug I would have to say that right now I'd like Trump to still be President!
And Joe Biden seriously has got to be replaced. If by Harris, well so be it, but she may
not have the skills as she was picked for her race and gender?

But she may be the saviour too, who knows she is Vice President and Joe is getting worse and worse, unless he's scripted and prompted by people on the side lines.

In fact I doubt Joe is evfen in charge, but you must have the power to sign in the hands of a Leader and Joe Biden should never have been even running as the candidate for the Democrats, because even his running was probably rigge so who ever the Democrats power brokers are , they needed a puppet, and they could be in real strife, I can't believe Joe hasn't already taken sick leave, watching him caught out time after time by quick questions is an embarrasment, Trump led, he simply led how he got there means nothing , he gor there and the people of the US stuffed up or got duped last November.

Love or hate America , we are tied by chains to them as an ally but also as friends, and Biden is a gigantic error.
Even by the maybe liars and cheats from last year! With a warped electoral system , they may have gotten what they really DIDN'T WANT!